4g63 to Subaru trans

[Ravewolf]

http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=146223

This is a thread I've started over on shoptalkforums.com (a vw site for non purists, since thesamba gets kinda anal about stuff) asking about anyone who can make an adapter plate to mount a 4g63 to a subaru transmission. Can anyone get the measurements needed in these pics? The man making them needs them measure with a digital caliper btw.

I only post because I am in a hotel in Irwin,Pennsylvania, training for my new job and don't have access to a DSM block. So if anyone has a junk one laying around, measure it please? Thanks!

Btw,this is all being shoe horned into a 67 Baja Bug. When it's all said and done, I'm hoping to be able to pull the wheels in first and second. Teehee.

 

[yhype]

I would try to contact http://www.billsautofab.com/recent_mit.asp who already makes 4g63 bell housing adapters.

 

[Ravewolf]

I have tried. No response. This guy already has a mockup on CAD,and just lacks a few details. Thanks though

 

[jakeachy]

The torque of a 4g is more linear at low rpm and it will shred gearsets besides the 6 speeds

 

[Ravewolf]

We shall see. What I would like are the measurements since I'm out of town on a work trip,and can't get them. Also,they sell upgraded gearsets for these transmissions.

 

[jakeachy]

Yeah, I've had a type RA... The key is to use the Porsche gearbox. Stronger, easier to work with, less expensive than a 5k+ 5pd dogbox (which will blow up after 400wtq anyway)

 

[Ravewolf]

But finding a Porsche gearbox that isn't haggard is hard,and just as expensive.You'll spend a crapload of money rebuilding them too once shit goes south. Also, think of the weight difference. And like I said, I can get gear sets for this trans. Not cheap,mind you,but I can. I would love to have a 6spd,but the rexxers thing anything with WRX on it is gold plated and was peed on by jesus. Alot of the bug guys are switching over to the subaru trans with the swapped ring and pinion,and making decent power with them. Not like a 4g can make with an HX35,but decent power. I'm also counting on a bit of turbo lag .

 

[mike96]

Have you tried contacting Kennedy engineering? They make a slew of adapters to bolt just about every engine imaginable to either the Porsche to VW trans axle, including Subaru boxer and the 4g series engine. They may be able to do what you are looking for.

 

[CrackedDSM]

I've got a 4G block sitting right here. Which measurements do you need? I can't view that link.

 

[BoostforBreakfast]

I have a 4g63 with a 16g in my sand rail. I've mated it to a vw bus 5-rib 4speed. Kennedy adapter and clutch

 

[donniekak]

Your best bet for something like that would probably be to just use a dsm awd trans converted to fwd mounted in the rear. Spending all that money on a transmission weaker than the already suspect dsm transmissions isn't a good idea.

 

[BoostforBreakfast]

the 5rib trans i have has held up pretty well (I'm only on 10psi tho). the 3 rib that was in it before dropped 3rd gear so the 5rib went in. The best OEM vw option seems to be the 6rib, but that is hard to find. I think kennedy can build ya a 4g to Ej adapter, but that would mean mid-mounting the trans unless you make the 4g reverse rotation.

And with the 3-rib (being a closer ratio trans) and the 4g63 on a 14b, my rail would pull the front end in 1st and 2nd

 

[pksystems]

The Porsche boxes aren't that strong. 901 & 915 are pretty weak unless you use oil coolers on them. 300ft/lb of torque is supposed to be about the limit. The 4 speed 930 is stronger. Up until the G50 they are supposed to shift like tractors aswell. I dunno. Never driven one, but a 901 came with my project.

Are you planning on going mid-engine? If not you need to flip something. Trans or internals.

I will be using 5 speed Subaru converted to 2wd with flipped r&p in my 912... and an EJ20

 

[Ravewolf]

I've got a 4G block sitting right here. Which measurements do you need? I can't view that link.

Crank centre hole (where the transmission input shaft goes in). O.D. and depth in mm.
Crank bolts (for the flywheel) how many bolts (6 I guess) and their PCD and thread)
Crank flywheel mounting face - distance in or out relative to the flat rear face of the block (in mm).
Crank nose (the circle where the hole in the flywheel has to sit over) O.D. and thickness in mm.

His words.

Your best bet for something like that would probably be to just use a dsm awd trans converted to fwd mounted in the rear. Spending all that money on a transmission weaker than the already suspect dsm transmissions isn't a good idea.

How would I do that? And is the ej series tranny that weak?

the 5rib trans i have has held up pretty well (I'm only on 10psi tho). the 3 rib that was in it before dropped 3rd gear so the 5rib went in. The best OEM vw option seems to be the 6rib, but that is hard to find. I think kennedy can build ya a 4g to Ej adapter, but that would mean mid-mounting the trans unless you make the 4g reverse rotation.

And with the 3-rib (being a closer ratio trans) and the 4g63 on a 14b, my rail would pull the front end in 1st and 2nd

I plan on using at least 20-25psi. Going to use a 16g with an HX35 on top. And there is a guy in Australia who makes reverse rotation ring & pinion gears for EJ trannies.

I will be using 5 speed Subaru converted to 2wd with flipped r&p in my 912... and an EJ20

I'm going to do the same, going through subaru gears. He's actually the one that is offering to build the adapter plate. He has a mockup on CAD using a SBC adapter,but he needs

 

[donniekak]

You would mount the dsm engine and trans in the back, just like its mounted in the front of a fwd car. Every Subaru trans you can use, with the exception of the 6-speed sti trans is prone to explode at 16g pump gas power levels.

 

[Ravewolf]

You would mount the dsm engine and trans in the back, just like its mounted in the front of a fwd car. Every Subaru trans you can use, with the exception of the 6-speed sti trans is prone to explode at 16g pump gas power levels.

I call shenanigans. Plus,that's when it's in a heavy awd WRX. I hope. If I do blow it up, then just slap another one in. Or run it midmount,and use a toronado tranny. They claim to hold 500lbs of torque.

 

[BoostforBreakfast]

yea..... I've seen bone stock mid 90's impreza 5-speed trans hold 500+whp without issue. Hell, I have a buddy with a ~350whp EA in his brat that has a stock dual range transmission

 

[donniekak]

I lived next to a Subaru performance shop for 3 years. It seemed like every wrx tuned on an aftermarket turbo crapped out the 5 speed sooner more than later. Now the 6-speed sti trans seemed to hold up the 35r power level I saw them going to regularly.


But then again I'm not subi expert because, well, they suck.

 

[BoostforBreakfast]

well when kids are borrowing their parent's credit card to pay for crap for a car their parents bought/signed for, 6k rpm clutch drop launches along with generally thrashing the crap out of the car will take a toll. That being said, the 6 speeds are stronger

 

[jakeachy]

I've a very long history with all sorts of us and Jdm 5 speeds, and even a type ra box will explode nearing the 350tq range. That's the strongest 5sp..

Do what you will, I'll be following to see how long yours lasts

 

[Ravewolf]

I lived next to a Subaru performance shop for 3 years. It seemed like every wrx tuned on an aftermarket turbo crapped out the 5 speed sooner more than later. Now the 6-speed sti trans seemed to hold up the 35r power level I saw them going to regularly.


But then again I'm not subi expert because, well, they suck.

I agree. I like the engines,and the sound,but not the cars. Useful for parts though!

 

[Ravewolf]

I've a very long history with all sorts of us and Jdm 5 speeds, and even a type ra box will explode nearing the 350tq range. That's the strongest 5sp..

Do what you will, I'll be following to see how long yours lasts

Long,I hope. I'm not one for 6k clutch dumps,or hard launches. I'm also not running a super high end clutch. I want it to slip a bit to ease the shock on the transmission. I also don't think running hard off road or in the dunes will hurt it much,because no traction . If I get on it on the street,it'll be from a roll. But I at least want one or two track runs.

 

[donniekak]

Most of the failures I saw weren't shock loading from clutch dumps. They were the same type of gear stripping from a roll the dsm transmissions do at 450+ ft/lbs, but at a much lower torque value. Also saw some exploded sliders.

I'm just saying, if you are going to spend money fabbing up a 4g to fit another trans, it shouldn't be weaker than a stock dsm trans.

To a lot of the vw off road crowd the amount of power you can get out of a bone stock 6bolt 4g63 and 14b turbo is huge.

 

[Ravewolf]

Most of the failures I saw weren't shock loading from clutch dumps. They were the same type of gear stripping from a roll the dsm transmissions do at 450+ ft/lbs, but at a much lower torque value. Also saw some exploded sliders.

I'm just saying, if you are going to spend money fabbing up a 4g to fit another trans, it shouldn't be weaker than a stock dsm trans.

To a lot of the vw off road crowd the amount of power you can get out of a bone stock 6bolt 4g63 and 14b turbo is huge.

All the research I've found points to 300-350hp being the max(as pksystems stated),which is plenty enough for me. All I plan to do to my engine is a cam change,a 16g, and some injectors, along with the normal supporting mods. I may abandon the subaru trans alltogether as well,because to convert it over, well,that's alot of money. We'll see. Thanks for the input from all of you though. I appreciate it.

 

[Pipnorcali]

My 5speed Subaru tranny is made from glass a 4g63 will shred it.. I would look into what the dune buggies use built bus trans or 930