4G63 or 4G64

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by RipperXX
Also rdrkt just how much WHP do you have?

I don’t know exactly yet. I ran a 126 trap on pump gas and my car weighs 3200lbs or so I would think that would be somewhere between 470-500.

Originally posted by RipperXX
Insted of just telling me a bolt on is a crapy choice, could you tell me why I shouldn't go with the SBR GT-14? It seems like a great turbo IMO.

A bolt on turbo does not have a large enough turbine housing for a 2.4L it would absolutely KILL the top end and it would probably surge. Besides Im not a huge fan of the Gt30 turbine wheel. But that’s just me.

Originally posted by RipperXX
What clutch do you use? The ACT 2900 is out of the question, it's not streetable enough.

At some point you WILL have to start making compromises. Personally I think my clutch is about as good as you can get for this application. It is a twin disk setup. It can more than hold the power and it will last 2x as long as the ACT and on top of that it has a pedal pressure that feels stock. It is a bit grabby though.

 

[RipperXX]

Well what is the name of the clutch? and where could I find it when the time comes to buy it?

 

[rdrkt]

You can order it from hesspower.com. Start saving your pennies though.

 

[RipperXX]

yea isn't this the $1400 clutch?

BTW would it last at least a yr of mild driveing with a few stomps here and there?

 

[gritsak]

im going to be running an rps 6puck with sprung hub. its rated at 585ft/lbs and supposedly with the sprung hub its similar or less peddle pressure then an act 2600.

not to many people go with rps in the dsm crowd (kinda expensive, at least compared to act) but if you go over to supraforums you will find about 80% of the people run rps clutches. i had the same clutch ill have in my dsm as i did in my 644whp supra and it was very streetable.

if you arent gonna be ordering for at least a month or so my car will be done and ill do a good write-up on the clutch and how it feels.

 

[RipperXX]

ok, that would be grate.


Yea right now im trying to find all the vendors i will need to order parts from, and figure out just which parts i need to get what i want here.

so basicly im asking you guys to take me under your wing when i start this build and tell me what the BEST stuff is... i will (with time) have the money so it all comes down to time.. well time and your guys help.

first off im going to have to pay my old man back about a grand and find some old honda or something as a daily driver, then after i get the Magnus 4G64 block and SBR stage III head I guess i'll come back with more questions...


Thanks again for giveing me a MUCH better idea about what I need to try and meet my goal here.

 

[BryanK]

Alright man... first thing you need to do is listen to every bit of advice that rdrkt has to offer. I mean that... you won't find too many dsm people out there that are not only extremely knowledgable, but actually take the time to explain to people like us what the best setup would be. I'm not trying to kiss as* here, this is just something I've found to be very very true.
Second thing, is you definately need to consider a bigger exhaust housing. With that explanation on the difference in displacement between the 4g63 and the 4g64, you really get the idea on what a big difference there is between the two engines. In terms of chosing a turbo for them, you're looking at two completely different beasts. Think about it, with that much extra displacement, you're going to be spitting out a LOT more exhaust gas than you would with the 4g63. So why then, would you even begin to consider a turbo thats designed for an engine that is MUCH smaller? Those bolt on turbos, such as the SBR GT-14, and the AGP kit, are designed for the 4g63. The exhaust housing is smaller on those turbos because the 4g63 doesn't spit out as much exhaust gas as the 4g64. The 63 needs that smaller housing because without it, that engine wouldn't be capable of putting out enough exhaust gas to spool the compressor side. Now if you take a turbo thats designed for the 63, and slap it on a 64, than you've got an engine thats cramming WAY more exhaust down the turbine housing of the turbo than that turbo was ever designed for. What this means, is rediculously quicker spool, but it also means that once you get up around 6, 7, and 8K RPM, the turbo's exhaust housing can't handle all the exhaust gas that the 64 is going to be flowing (especially a built 64, such as the one you described). So now if the turbo is choking your engines ability to breath, not only will the compressor never reach its full efficiency range, but your engine won't want to rev past 7K. Its bad for both the engine, and the turbo. In addition, you talked about wanting to spin your 64 up around 9K RPM. With a turbo designed for the 63, both your engine and your turbo will HATE you for spinning it up that high. I'm not saying it wouldn't be possible, but it sure wouldn't be smart.
I hope you understood my explanation. Basically, if you want your engine to breath well at 9K, you have to consider a turbo thats going to allow enough exhaust to flow through it. To achieve this, you're going to have to sacrifice some spool. This means you won't see full boost until 4,500 RPM, which to me is still streetable. But... you'll have TONS of power up near 7,8, and 9K, which was right where you said you wanted it. Its a catch 22... if you want quick spool, you gotta sacrifice top end flow... if you want top end flow, you gotta sacrifice spool. Its a fact, no way around it.
As far as your clutch choice goes, the clutch that hesspower.com makes is designed to last much, much longer than anything that ACT makes for our cars. I wouldn't build a built 64 without a clutch like it, but thats me. Sure you can go for the ACT, but you'll be replacing it quite often.
Hope everything made sense.
BryanK

 

[gritsak]

Originally posted by BryanK
Those bolt on turbos, such as the SBR GT-14, and the AGP kit, are designed for the 4g63. The exhaust housing is

what are you talking about..the agp kit uses a new SFP manifold with a full garret turbo...not a hybrid with a mitsu exhaust housing...it uses a t3 platform which has tons of options

ive got the t3/60-1 w/ .63 a/r with a 4g63 w/4g64 crank and bored .20 over. i will prolly up the a/r up to a .84 but the full garret has tons of choices. plus they offer a full t4 kit now i think

 

[Slowboy]

GT35R, .82 turbine side.......

This would be my personal choice for that set up.

Regards,

Mike Huml

 

[pickens]

If spool is that big of a deal, why not go with a small nitrous setup. Its called Insta-Spool in a bottle.

 

[BryanK]

I s'pose I generalized your statement about the agp kit as also designed for the '63. I didn't read it as closely as I should have.
Oh... and Ripper...you might want to do more research on the RPS clutch. I don't know jack about it, and it very well may be just as suitable for your application as the one that hesspower offers.
Anyways, good luck on your decisions, and keep us posted on what you end up chosing!
It seems like lots of people are voting for the 63... anyone have a justification for voting for it over the 64? Just curious, thats all.
BryanK

 

[RipperXX]

Yea I was thinking, rdrkt was confirming my suspition that the 63 just isn't big enough and after all the posting's in this thread about how that should be my choice ppl were still voteing for the 63... I think some ppl just dont like to read .

 

[MNGSX]

Another option is using a G64B or 4GCS block with a 4g63 crank.

This nets a high reving larger displacement motor. Use long rods to make up for the diference in stroke and deck height. 2.4 Aftermarket pistons will work for this but CR will be reduced. You can also get pistons with less dish.

It won't stomp hard down low like a 2.4 but will still have a decent displacement jump from a 2 liter motor. It will greatly outflow a 2.0 or a 2.4 up top due to really good cylinder filling at upper rpm from combing a bore increase with the shorter stroke. It will rev smooth as hell.

There are even other posible combinations

 

[RipperXX]

Never heard of thoughs blocks....I think I will stick with the Magnus 2.4L

 

[MNGSX]

Originally posted by RipperXX
Never heard of thoughs blocks....I think I will stick with the Magnus 2.4L

You think they make their own blocks?

Its a 6 bolt 2.4 block. Either a G64B or 4GCS with forged pistons and rods.

Anyone who can build a 2.0 can build a 2.4.

When a 2.0 crank goes in a 2.4 block it's a 2.1. I thought I'd mention that posibility since nobody seems to even consider it.

4g63 = 1997 cc

G64 with 63 crank = 2068cc

G63 block with G64 crank (stroker) = 2269cc

G64B or 4GCS (std 2.4) = 2350cc

 

[RipperXX]

yea the standard 2.4L has the most displacement and that is what I need for what im after.

 

[zapatista]

This is probably a stupid question but won't parts be breaking and shit if you have a 500+ daily driver? Sorry if this is stupid, I'm new here.

 

[RipperXX]

yea, well see what i plan on doing, is once i get 500whp on C-16 w/propane I will (if i can find a dyno) find the setings for 350whp on pump and then 500whp on C-16..

SoOoOo that way, it will be fine as a daily driver.

 

[zapatista]

COOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[insanewayne]

Hey
I know this thread is real old, but I'm starting to save for the exact same setup, and i was wondering what happened to your project ripperXX, and how things went.

Thanks

Wayne

 

[bigfoot]

Hey I remember this thread. So Ripper, it's been a year, make up your mind yet?

 

[RipperXX]

Yea, I have learned alot more than I knew back then (still a good ways to go). And my goals and wants for the car have changed greatly.


I sold my old 1990 AWD TSi and got another with half the miles It to has a crappy tranny though (actualy worse)

My goals now for the car, are a CLEAN, extreamly well handeling "fast" car.

I just want mid 12's
rebuild the tranny
show quality paint job (black)
smoke out the tails.
Eibach proline springs
KYB AGX shocks
front and rear strut towers
maybe a rear roll bar.
Black DAD seats
custom guage cluster already made from fiberglass useing the stock center vent for a more factory look, since I hated the A piller pods)
silver Revo 17x7.5" wheels

Im takeing out a 7k loan most likely next month to do all this at once... I already know what all engine mods I want etc. Just dont know if 7k is going to be enough for ALL of it... damn paint job is going to cost at least 2k

 

[insanewayne]

Oh ok, well was there anything that turned you away from the 2.4 hybrid, or did u find any real good sources of info or guides on it in your quest?

Thanks,

Wayne

 

[bigfoot]

Do a search for 4G64, G64B or 4GCS. When your done there here's 16 more pages. http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31111&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

 

[insanewayne]

Thanks alot, that was a good read.

Wayne