420a turbo conversion

[fartz012]

im gonna turbo my 420a. my goals are 250-275 c-hp @ 8psi boost (untill i rebuild again) here is my parts list let me know if i left anything out. and any sugestions and/or pointers on components that i can reuse after my rebuild for around 20 psi of boost?

Garrett T3 turbo
FMIC
Exhaust Manifold
BOV
Down pipe
T3 wastegate flange
exhaust flange
Intercooler piping kit 2.25"
Walbro 255 lph HP fuel pump
Vortech 10:1 FMU
Vortech air bleed valve
Braided Fuel hose
Boost gauge
Oil pressure gauge
Oil Line kit
MBC

 

[davidalindsey]

You should get this 420a Turbo kit 95-99 Eclipse
This is what i am getting after i do a rebulid.

 

[silvreclips]

Ditch the FMU and go for the SFMU and maybe even some 310 injectors. The stock injectors max around 7-8psi and are over 100+ fuel pressure. And the FMU cant be tuned at all and pretty much runs shitty so just save yourself the headache.

 

[spawn7037]

You probably should get a fuel pressure regulator with a pressure gauge.

 

[Locke]

The 10:1 will work, but you'd be safer with a 12:1 FMU.

You'll find the bleed valve won't be very useful. This is for pulling fuel in boost - you will already be on the edge of too lean with a 12:1 - the 255hp barely flows enough at those pressures.

You'll need a FCD or ML to prevent fuel cut.

You probably should get a fuel pressure regulator with a pressure gauge.

An AFPR with gauge isn't necessary when boosting a 420a to ~8psi .

 

[fartz012]

right, i got ML on the way, should i just get an AMFPR cause im building a short block?(crank rods pistons)it wont be done for like a year tho because of economy and expenses involved. anything else i should do internally?

 

[1997-420a-rst]

metal headgasket, also get a resistor box out of a turbo'd eclipse from the junk yard it will hook up to your injectors this way you will be able to run low impedence injectors., and i suggest 340, or 370 cc injectors.

 

[SeMi380]

You're never gonna hit 250-275 whp at 8 psi. After the rebuild with new low compression pistons and new rods you can hit it but definitely not on the stock block.

 

[fartz012]

well i was aiming at 250-300 crank-HP. dont know what it would end up being at the wheels.

 

[SeMi380]

After your intial build on just 8 pounds of boost you'll probably be around 210ish hp at the crank. Don't really what you would be getting at the wheels but just make sure your motor's good on maintence before you go through with turboing it.

 

[Locke]

Generally speaking, a 420a at ~8psi will put a tad over 200hp to the wheels.* The factory internals can handle quite a bit more than that, but will require a real tune.


*Obviously, larger turbos will huff more at 8psi than smaller turbo's, and thus make more power. This is what the trend shows for the average kit.

 

[fartz012]

let me tell you guys a little more about my plans...


16g turbo,(i have a 50 trim im gonna sell or trade for it)
full 3" exhaust
god speed FMIC
walbro 255 LPH HP pump
1:1 AFPR w/AN fittings(or SFMU)
turbonetics bov and wastegate
OBX boost gauge
modified civic header
missing link
home made oil supply/return kit w/AN fittings
ebay 2.25 piping kit w/couplers...

So what do ya guys think??

 

[Locke]

I think you ought to ditch the AFPR for either a 12:1 FMU or an SFMU and larger injectors - or - Keep the 1:1, purchase the largest injectors you can afford, and a MegaSquirt.

 

[fartz012]

The 10:1 will work, but you'd be safer with a 12:1 FMU.

You'll find the bleed valve won't be very useful. This is for pulling fuel in boost - you will already be on the edge of too lean with a 12:1 - the 255hp barely flows enough at those pressures.

how is 10:1 to lean if according to my research the SFMU has a maximum ratio of 7:1? i have read success stories of people who have used the SFMU for years with stock 420a injectors and had no problems

 

[fartz012]

man, that dude shouldnt have even posted...
anyway, any info on the above??

 

[Grimis]

ok,

I've been here long enough to see what everyone is doing etc , who's running whats, but i need some help from my fellow wisemen dsm'ers.

With the budget cut down since last year, i'm trying to get this dism running. Stock rebuild on the block with arp head studs and 272 cams. I will finish up with the oil pump and water pump with in a week but turbo area is where i keep kicking around.

Original plan was FP 18g, w/Fuel Lab FPR, Feed kit, 190lph pump, 880 injectors, dsmlink, dejon FMIC pipes and intake kit, cxracing frmic core, evo 3 exhaust manifold and an o2 dump from Punishment Racing. Along with Autometer Phantom 2's Boost, Oil , Trans temp, Pyrometer and a NGK Wideband kit.

Sounds good no? i was all set till i read about using new turbos to break in motors and im like don't want to spend the $$$ that i've saved to have it kill the turbo and back to square one. I've also read that its a hit and miss etc with break-ins etc but i dont want to chance it. So I've scored a 14b in great shape, so thats a plus, but im also thinking, since its a stock rebuild, just put what i need on to run the 14b proper and leave the other goodies when my 2.3 is built.

just need your thoughts on what route i should go, taxes should be here anyday and i want to get this puppy on the road and get some miles on her so i can finaly go to the shootout this year.

anyways, thanks for taking the time to read, had to get it all out there.

 

[RadDsm]

If you are going to have an afpr, why only use a 190 fp? Get a 255 pump and be done with that.

 

[andy4g63]

Looks good, only thing, I would suggest to change is FP-18G. Get FP- 20G. Noticable bump in power.

 

[kahl23]

Also, run an inline oil filter of some sort. FP sells a 10 micron -4AN sized filter that can be run in line off the feed location. That will help prevent any break in particles from trashing your turbo. The one caveat about using it is your need to check it constantly, i.e. with every oil change, or else particles can clog the filter and starve the turbo of oil. Also, change your oil often on startup, but I'm sure you know the drill if you read the engine break in threads.

 

[evileclipse909]

Why not just go with a holset turbo. They're cheap and build gobs of power from what I read.

 

[19BLACKGST98]

With more power comes more lag (atleast in the case of the 18g vs 20g).
But I do agree with getting the oil line filter from FP. If you get that you can go ahead and throw the new turbo on and get rid of the 14b.

 

[Grimis]

thanks for the pointers, if i do go with the 18g, its on my list for the red filter from FP. so every thing looks to be good then? I mean besides the turbo change.

as for the break in , i have planed, slight prime of oil pump, start (if it starts ) run around 2k rpms for 20mins, shut it down, change the oil, take it out and very the rpms with light boost, then coast it (engine coast, no brakes) a few WOT's then coast , change oil, and change oil at 150/250/350/500/1500 then at 3000. Dont know if thats good or not, but from what i read thats about right i think...

 

[JusMX141]

With more power comes more lag (atleast in the case of the 18g vs 20g).

A common misconception. If you compare 16G, 18G, and 20G turbos with the same size turbines, the lag between the three would be minimal at best. All three compressor wheels have the same size backplate and exducer size- the inducer size difference between the three are minimal at best:

Big 16G = 1.892"
18G = 1.980"
20G = 2.070"

When my buddy initially upgraded the Big 16G on his '95 TSi AWD to a TD05H-turbined 20G, the first thing he noticed was that they both spooled at almost the same RPM. The TD05H 20G worked out to be a hell of a street turbo (under 25psi) because of it's ability to spool so quickly- it hits like a 16G, but pulls on top much harder than a 16G ever would....even with the stock cams. However, to really make the 20G compressor shine at higher boost you would want a larger turbine- and now lag becomes a more noticeable factor.

Lag becomes more prominent if you're comparing two turbos with different-sized turbines (i.e.- a TD05H 20G vs. TD06H 20G) or turbos with large differences in compressor wheel inducer and exducer because of the added rotational mass.

 

[andy4g63]

A common misconception. If you compare 16G, 18G, and 20G turbos with the same size turbines, the lag between the three would be minimal at best. All three compressor wheels have the same size backplate and exducer size- the inducer size difference between the three are minimal at best:

Big 16G = 1.892"
18G = 1.980"
20G = 2.070"

When my buddy initially upgraded the Big 16G on his '95 TSi AWD to a TD05H-turbined 20G, the first thing he noticed was that they both spooled at almost the same RPM. The TD05H 20G worked out to be a hell of a street turbo (under 25psi) because of it's ability to spool so quickly- it hits like a 16G, but pulls on top much harder than a 16G ever would....even with the stock cams. However, to really make the 20G compressor shine at higher boost you would want a larger turbine- and now lag becomes a more noticeable factor.

Lag becomes more prominent if you're comparing two turbos with different-sized turbines (i.e.- a TD05H 20G vs. TD06H 20G) or turbos with large differences in compressor wheel inducer and exducer because of the added rotational mass.

I think you mentioned this fact somwhere earlier, that is why I sugggested it. Plus $300 more is some money, but it is worth it. I've seen couple of 20 G's on a Mustang dyno and they made easy320-335 WHP, which if on Dynojet will be much higher. Both on pump gas.

---Grimis, if that is a little too much money wise, contact jusmx 141, he could do nice combo for you... PM him for info.

 

[blacktopmenace]

Hey Locke,


What would you suggest as a good fuel pump to replace the 255lhp, cause I'm buildin kit for my 420a... just your opinion! Appreciate it