Resolved 2G Bad Clutch or Something Else, Please Help.

[Miasma]

Yesterday afternoon when driving my 98 Eagle Talon TSI AWD (7-bolt) in town, stopped at a red light to make a left turn, when I pulled forward there was a clunk and grind which kicked the transmission out of first back into neutral. At first I thought I’d just lost first gear, but it shifted back into gear fine, but starting slipping as I tried to accelerate forward. I was able to shift into 2nd and 3rd and finish driving to my destination which was only a few blocks away. Then on my return drive home (10 minutes), I noticed that when the acceleration slips both the rpm and speedometer increase rapidly without actually increasing the vehicle speed. This is happening in each gear. Worse, the harder I press the accelerator.

Initially, I thought the clutch was gone, but I don't think that explains why the speedometer is also increasing, which I believe the sensor to be on the output shaft of the transmission. So, if the speedometer and rpm are both increasing is it a clutch or a mechanical issue?

Below is the testing I've done so far in my garage to diagnose the issue.
1) Jacked the front of the car up, with the back tires still on the ground and e-brake on. I spin the driver side tire and observe the passenger side tire spin in the opposite direction. If I spin the passenger side tire, I also observe the driver side tire spin in the opposite direction. This is the case in neutral or in gear with the engine off. Note: there is noticeable slack in the rotation of the front tires before resistance causes the other tire to rotate. Approximately 1/16 - 1/32 of a turn before resistance causes the other side to rotate.
2) With the front and rear jacked up and all four tires off the ground, in neutral with the e-brake off, I can spin the front driver side tire and observe the rear tires spin in the same direction but the front passenger tire doesn't move. The front passenger tire attempts to move, but then stops immediately. When I spin the front passenger side tire, I can also observe the rear tires spin in the same direction but now the front driver side doesn't move. It does the same thing, where the front driver side tries to turn but then stops.
3) With all four tires in the air, and the e-brake applied gently, I can rotate the front driver side tire and observe the passenger side tire rotate in the opposite direction - same as when the rear tires were on the ground, but I also notice the rear tires attempt to move and the e-brake squeal (since it's only applied gently to simulate road drag in the rear). This indicates to me that the transfer case is properly transmitting power to the rear.
4) Externally verified all CV axles appear to be intact. There is some play in each, the rear feel most solid, and the front has a bit more play than the rear.

This makes me think there is an issue with the power distribution across the front end. The T-case seems ok, as the drive shaft is rotating the rear tires with the front. But, the front tire input is weak with the rear in the air.

Further testing I'm thinking of doing.
1) With the front of the car jacked up and back on the ground, have someone rotate the front driver side tire while I grab hold of the passenger side axle and intermediate shaft one at a time to determine if one of the shafts is slipping (indicating a sheared spline)
2) With all four tires in the air, start the car and put in gear, running at low speed to see if one tire is not rotating. If all tires are spinning, gently apply the brakes to simulate road resistance to see if a wheel/s stops. If all four tires still turn, hit the brake and throttle at the same time to try and engage the same slip observed while driving.

What’s everyone’s thoughts? Is it possible I sheared the splines on one of the front axles, or the intermediate shaft, or worse - sheared the front differential inside the transmission?

If I’m wrong, and this is just the symptoms of a bad clutch in these cars, please let me know. The car is mostly stock with a rebuilt 7-bolt engine and OEM clutch. I just recently bought the car earlier this summer, so I haven't had much time to do modifications yet. I've only done maintenance. Notably, the t-case output shaft seal was previously leaking, but I replaced it and confirmed there was still fluid in the t-case at the time. I also changed the oil and used AMSOIL Severe Gear 75W-90, filled until there was continuous fluid flowing from the fill port.

I'm hoping to have a better idea of what could be wrong before I start tearing it apart, so I know what parts I should expect to order.

For clutch recommendations. I wonder if @twicks69 could help? Based on previous threads, I've seen you recommend SBC SS-X TV/B-Series clutches which I think will meet my end goal of ~400awhp after further mods are complete. Would the items linked below be the correct ones to order? I want to make sure I get the correct ones for my 7-bolt AWD. Not sure if I need a replacement flywheel to run the SBC clutch.

https://www.tmzperformance.com/shop...ishi-galant-vr4-1992-1995-mitsubishi-evo-1-3/

ACT Clutch Streetlite Chromoly Steel Flywheels for 4G63T (DSM, GVR4, Evo 1-3)

www.tmzperformance.com

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[twicks69]

Have you checked front right axle is fully engaged and locked into place in the front diff? Have you drained your transmission? Have you pulled it yet and inspected the clutch? If you didn't destroy your clutch, then I am guessing your center diff just died by broken cross shaft / spider gears internally and you have a wiped out viscous coupler, or you wore off the splines for the output shaft to the transfer case which would still point to dead center diff and viscous coupler. Otherwise, you could have a front right axle failure, or you sheared a tailshaft on your transfer case. It depends on how much abuse the components had in their life. At your power levels, I would not expect a transfer case to shear the tail shaft unless there was an internal bearing failure; it would be a higher likelihood of worn off splines on the tcase input sleeve and transmission output shaft which both happen from center diff failure. If the splines are wiped out or saw toothed, I would recommend disassembling the transfer case to inspect. It is fairly easy to do a quick inspection by removing the 5x 14mm side cover bolts, hitting the input sleeve with a dead blow hammer and removing the side cover and pulling out the drive gear assembly (inner tapered roller bearing, input sleeve, drive gear, outer tapered roller bearing). Inspect the bearing condition, more specifically the inner bearing that is much smaller is notorious for failure, especially when the input sleeve splines are worn out from the center diff failing inside the transmission.

I would recommend starting with draining and removal of transfer case and transmission getting pulled, inspecting the clutch for a disk failure or hub failure and inspecting the output shaft splines and tcase input sleeve splines.

Yes, for the clutch / flywheel stuff, the SSX w/ TZ/B disk kit and ACT Streetlite flywheel will do the job. If you need new flywheel bolts = MD302074 x7, pressure plate bolts = MF241251 x6.

 

[jdxnc]

Slipping with speedometer rising but speed not increasing leads me to believe there's a broken axle or trans output shaft is worn down and the viscous is trying to sent power to the other end to which the axle is broken. The splines in the axle shaft and output shaft can be worn down/sheered off to the point they will transfer rotation when moving it by hand jacked up but not with the car under its own power. Doesn't sound like clutch to me, speedometer wouldn't rise in that case.

 

[pauleyman]

Slipping with speedometer rising but speed not increasing leads me to believe there's a broken axle or trans output shaft is worn down and the viscous is trying to sent power to the other end to which the axle is broken. The splines in the axle shaft and output shaft can be worn down/sheered off to the point they will transfer rotation when moving it by hand jacked up but not with the car under its own power. Doesn't sound like clutch to me, speedometer wouldn't rise in that case.

I concur. Worn tcase splines??

 

[Miasma]

Thank you all for the response!

So far, I haven’t had a chance to begin pulling anything mechanically apart yet. I’ve gone back on shift at work, so plan to start removing the front axle shafts and intermediate shaft next week. If I don’t discover any sheared splines on either of the three shafts, I may drop the t-case as well. However, based on the testing I’ve done I do think that the t-case is intact and that an internal issue would be with the front diff, specifically "with all four tires in the air, and the e-brake applied gently, I can rotate the front driver side tire and observe the passenger side tire rotate in the opposite direction - same as when the rear tires were on the ground, but I also notice the rear tires attempt to move and the e-brake squeal (since it's only applied gently to simulate road drag in the rear)." This indicates to me that the transfer case is properly transmitting power to the rear, but it's certainly easier to drop the t-case than it is to pull the transmission.

If I don't find a damaged shafts and confirm the t-case is intact, then I will drain the transmission, inspect the oil, and prepare to drop the transmission. I’ve never pulled a transmission apart, so I will likely seek some help when doing so.

If it was the center diff, based on the testing I’ve done, would I not have seen little power input to the rear tires? If my understanding is correct, the center diff splits the power between the front diff and t-case input shaft. I’m not exactly sure where the viscous coupler would be, inside the center diff, front diff, or both?

I agree with both of you, it’s likely not the clutch based on the speedometer action that I’ve seen. But, if I pull the transmission to rebuild a diff or viscous coupler, then I may as well replace the clutch with a stronger one anyway to avoid going back into it again later after more power has been added.

 

[pauleyman]

Thank you all for the response!

So far, I haven’t had a chance to begin pulling anything mechanically apart yet. I’ve gone back on shift at work, so plan to start removing the front axle shafts and intermediate shaft next week. If I don’t discover any sheared splines on either of the three shafts, I may drop the t-case as well. However, based on the testing I’ve done I do think that the t-case is intact and that an internal issue would be with the front diff, specifically "with all four tires in the air, and the e-brake applied gently, I can rotate the front driver side tire and observe the passenger side tire rotate in the opposite direction - same as when the rear tires were on the ground, but I also notice the rear tires attempt to move and the e-brake squeal (since it's only applied gently to simulate road drag in the rear)." This indicates to me that the transfer case is properly transmitting power to the rear, but it's certainly easier to drop the t-case than it is to pull the transmission.

If I don't find a damaged shafts and confirm the t-case is intact, then I will drain the transmission, inspect the oil, and prepare to drop the transmission. I’ve never pulled a transmission apart, so I will likely seek some help when doing so.

If it was the center diff, based on the testing I’ve done, would I not have seen little power input to the rear tires? If my understanding is correct, the center diff splits the power between the front diff and t-case input shaft. I’m not exactly sure where the viscous coupler would be, inside the center diff, front diff, or both?

I agree with both of you, it’s likely not the clutch based on the speedometer action that I’ve seen. But, if I pull the transmission to rebuild a diff or viscous coupler, then I may as well replace the clutch with a stronger one anyway to avoid going back into it again later after more power has been added.

Front diff is open. One wheel will spin in reverse if you spin the other.

 

[Miasma]

I also did one final test where I jacked up only the front driver side of the car and left the other three tires on the ground. Like this, I used a breaker bar and was able to turn the driver side tire forward and backward with relative ease (not much resistance) while the other three tires remained still.

 

[pauleyman]

I also did one final test where I jacked up only the front driver side of the car and left the other three tires on the ground. Like this, I used a breaker bar and was able to turn the driver side tire forward and backward with relative ease (not much resistance) while the other three tires remained still.

Im gonna lean towards broken axle.

 

[Miasma]

Hope you’re right @pauleyman, I’d rather not have to pull the transmission.

 

[dwb]

or you wore off the splines for the output shaft to the transfer case which would still point to dead center diff and viscous coupler.

That's my guess.
Transfer case input coupling and transmission output shaft have a tendency to wear over time. This was my 1g after about 265k miles (no performance mods). It never slipped on me, but it wasn't far from it.

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[Miasma]

Did you then have to rebuild your T-case and where did you locate a replacement input shaft from?

 

[dwb]

I did rebuild my transfer case due to mileage. I probably could have slapped the coupler in and sent it without too much fuss, but preload is overlooked in that case. The input coupler is NLA so I had to source a used one. Tim @ TMZ (@twicks69) hooked me up. I found a new OEM output shaft from JacksTransmissions.com. I was able to install the output shaft without removing the trans.

 

[Miasma]

Good to know. Thanks @dwb. As I dig into this further next week, I’ll reach out to some folks to find the parts.

 

[Miasma]

Ok, so I finally got some time to further troubleshoot and diagnose what ever is going on.

I put the car up four jack stands again, and this time I did a running test. I started the car and put it in 2nd gear. Then as I started to hit the throttle, I gently applied the brakes as well to try simulating road resistance.

Initially when driving in the air, all four tires would spin but as I applied the brakes the front driver side tires started to drag. After the front tire started to drag, I took my foot off the brakes and it still would not spin at the same speed as the others. In fact, the front driver side barely turned.

This led me to believe that I either have a problem with the driver side axle, intermediate shaft, or as previously discussed – the front differential.

I then proceeded to remove the front axle. I disconnected the front assembly and removed the front knuckle to remove the axle. I noticed the input shaft cv joint has a lot of slop and extends beyond the tripod insides. Not sure if this is normal, or it’s blown too. But, as I tried to remove the intermediate shaft, it was quite tight. So, I needed to use a punch and hammer to get it out.

Once I removed the driver side axle, I checked the splines. The axle female splines look a bit worn but not sheared. The intermediate shaft male splines look better than the axle end.

I ran out of time at this point, but next plan to do another test.

Run the car again in 2nd gear and see if the intermediate shaft spins.

What’s your guys thoughts on this so far?

Video and pics attached.

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[dwb]

Those look fine. How do the splines look at the front left hub? Have you pulled the halfshaft from the trans yet?

Seeing only the front left wheel not spinning rules out the output shaft or transfer case. This is either axle/halfshaft or front diff.

I would drain the trans and see what the fluid looks like. Gonna have to anyway to remove the axle.

 

[Miasma]

I ran out of time today, but next I plan to drain the transmission like you mentioned and remove the intermediate shaft.

It’s either the shaft or the diff. I have a feeling it’s the diff, but would love for it just to be the shaft.

If it turns out to be the diff, may go with the Quaife LSD so I never have to worry about it again.

Quaife LSD Front Differential For AWD DSM/Evo 1-3/GVR4 QDH8B 25-Spline Axles

www.tmzperformance.com

Not sure about the options listed on this one though regarding the bearings and speedo gear. I assume these would be required.

I live in Fort McMurray, AB. Not sure if there’s any local shops in Alberta that rebuild 2g DSMs, so sending it South may be my only option.

 

[Miasma]

Front left hub splines look fine. Wheel hubs are fairly new.

 

[pauleyman]

You're chasing a ghost unless you have information. Don't plan for a repair (front diff) until you know what is broken. Post #2 covers it all. Pull the tcase, drain the trans and pull both front axles. If you don't find it here it's in the trans. Did you do ANYTHING prior to this happening? Launch the car? etc etc.

 

[Miasma]

You're chasing a ghost unless you have information. Don't plan for a repair (front diff) until you know what is broken. Post #2 covers it all. Pull the tcase, drain the trans and pull both front axles. If you don't find it here it's in the trans. Did you do ANYTHING prior to this happening? Launch the car? etc etc.

No. The only spirited driving has been from a roll. Haven't done any launch's with the car since I've owned it, but that's not to say the previous guy/s did.

 

[pauleyman]

You can have axles out and tcase out in very little time.

 

[Miasma]

Axles and intermediate shaft are out. No obvious signs of damage to any of the splines. Carrier bearing is also good on the intermediate shaft.

Felt inside the transmission and didn’t find any damaged female spline either.

The hunt continues.

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[pauleyman]

Axles and intermediate shaft are out. No obvious signs of damage to any of the splines. Carrier bearing is also good on the intermediate shaft.

Felt inside the transmission and didn’t find any damaged female spline either.

The hunt continues.

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Drain the trans. Try and spin the output shaft. See if you feel anything

 

[Miasma]

After puling the passenger side axle, I definitely suspect the drive side axle cv joint may have failed as well. The internal tripod joint can be fulling separated, unlike the passenger side which is nice and tight.

As for the transmission, I was quite shocked how little oil came out. My first clue was when I pulled the intermediate shaft and passenger axle, no oil came out. Then when I removed the fill plug and drained the oil, only about 1 cup came out. Shame on me for not checking it first thing, but I've only had this Talon for 2 months now (bought in July, 2025). This could certainly mean an internal failure, but I didn't see any bits come out with the oil.

Looking inside the front diff, the cross pin and internal splines all appear intact. Can't see or feel the internal spider gears, but can see rotation when turning the shaft.

Before pulling the transmission, I may buy a new set of axles and refill the oil with Redline MT-90 and give it a test drive. See if I get lucky. Thoughts?

 

[pauleyman]

After puling the passenger side axle, I definitely suspect the drive side axle cv joint may have failed as well. The internal tripod joint can be fulling separated, unlike the passenger side which is nice and tight.

As for the transmission, I was quite shocked how little oil came out. My first clue was when I pulled the intermediate shaft and passenger axle, no oil came out. Then when I removed the fill plug and drained the oil, only about 1 cup came out. Shame on me for not checking it first thing, but I've only had this Talon for 2 months now (bought in July, 2025). This could certainly mean an internal failure, but I didn't see any bits come out with the oil.

Looking inside the front diff, the cross pin and internal splines all appear intact. Can't see or feel the internal spider gears, but can see rotation when turning the shaft.

Before pulling the transmission, I may buy a new set of axles and refill the oil with Redline MT-90 and give it a test drive. See if I get lucky. Thoughts?

If you want to try that I suggest cheap 5$ fluid first. You had 1 cup come out the drain?

 

[Miasma]

Ya, hardly any oil came out the drain. What would you suggest for cheap oil? You're right, no point spending on the good stuff, only to drain it immediately after if the trans is pooched. If I get lucky, I'd just drain the cheap stuff out again after.