2g autox setup questions

[T White]

first off i searched through lots of thread about autox setups but i couldnt find any looking for what i am sorry if this is a repost. also im just getting into autox and dont know much about suspension so my questions will prob seem newbish.

sorry for the long intro just trying to put as much info out as possible to get accurate responses rather than just the gc and konis i saw on all the other threads i looked at. i discovered autocross couple months ago and so far have only went to 5 events so i know i got along way to go as a driver before i worry to much about car setup, but im still hoping the experienced people on here can tell me some cheep ways to better my car. im running STC class so mods are pretty restricted. im not looking to make my car competitive its a N/A with 250k on it so seems pretty pointless to dump a bunch of money into a slow car with a lot of miles. im going to use this to learn to drive then buy something faster once this blows up.

current set up.
only thing i have done to motor is an intake, could add header back exhaust and stay in my class but from what i read in other threads doesnt gain enough power to be worth it? i have 225/50/16 hankook rs-3's (widest i could get for my class) on the stock chrome wheels. i put some of the 20 dollar ebay upper tower bars on it before my last event didnt notice much in the handling department but it did cure alot of my rattles so well worth the 40 bucks hah. i just put a 19mm rear sway bar and lower arms off a 3g on but havnt ran with them yet to know how it affects it, but im sure it will help a tun with body roll since i didnt even have a rear one before. has cheep stocker replacement shocks (kyb gr-2's) and stock springs. im going to order a full polly bushing kit because im sure all of mine are shot after 250k miles.

on to the questions.
i want to get lowering springs to get a little less body roll and a little more camber. was thinking of only going down an inch because i hear my shocks cant handle much more than that and i dont wanna drop 700 bucks on konis. Am i correct in my thinking that an inch is about as low as i can go on them? has anyone ever ran lowering springs on these shocks? What springs/spring rate would you guys recommend (remember im wanting to do this as cheep as possible dont want to put super expensive race stuff on slow n/a car) i know absolutely nothing about all that spring rate stuff so im at a complete loss when looking at them. once i do get them how much camber do i want front/rear saw alot of stuff about how it should be aligned but they all where running konis or coil overs and i know how you align it depends on how stiff your suspension is but like i said i know nothing about spring rates so i dont know how stiff it would be with and inch drop haha i appreciate any help, thanks

heres a pic of the glorious body roll that made me consider lowering springs.

 

[GofaST4life]

First off, the ONLY thing that will make your faster is seat time. Experience over mods everyday of the week.

Secondly, your body roll is pretty bad, mine was with my stock GSX suspension, but youll have to deal with it until you lower the car. Most people will say a full set of coils is the way to go, and thats true, its a night and day difference. But since your on a strict budget and literally doing this for fun, like me, and not trying to whoop everyone, id go with some lowering springs.

You are correct, they will most likely kill your stock struts, and inch, maybe 1.5 would be the max.

Also, next time around, I wouldn't buy a 50 sidewall tire. Your going to get a a lot of side wall flex/roll. With that said, the stock wheels are way to narrow to run a nice wide tire. I know your class has width rules, but at the end of the day a 225 on a 7.5 or 8 inch wheel is going to perform better that a 225 on a 6.5 inch wheel.

Don't worry about being N/A and low on power. There are A LOT of people who run N/A cars with less power than your 2G and have a lot of fun while being competitive. Look at all the late 80 early 90s Civics/CRXs, running nothing but a setup suspension and some wider tires. They all ran the show, so much so the SCCA gave them their own class.

Seat time, seat time, seat time....and have fun.

 

[RamenPride]

current set up.
i just put a 19mm rear sway bar and lower arms off a 3g on but havnt ran with them yet to know how it affects it, but im sure it will help a tun with body roll since i didnt even have a rear one before.

Getting a rear swaybar is a good start, an upgraded front swaybar will help with body roll also.

has cheep stocker replacement shocks (kyb gr-2's) and stock springs.....i want to get lowering springs to get a little less body roll and a little more camber. was thinking of only going down an inch because i hear my shocks cant handle much more than that and i dont wanna drop 700 bucks on konis. Am i correct in my thinking that an inch is about as low as i can go on them? has anyone ever ran lowering springs on these shocks? What springs/spring rate would you guys recommend (remember im wanting to do this as cheep as possible dont want to put super expensive race stuff on slow n/a car) i know absolutely nothing about all that spring rate stuff so im at a complete loss when looking at them. ....i know nothing about spring rates so i dont know how stiff it would be with and inch drop haha i appreciate any help, thanks

A lot of brand name aftermarket springs are actually softer than stock (basically the entire line of springs from Tein and a lot of the springs on ebay). The only ones I know of that are stiffer (either front and/or rear) and give a minimal drop are the Eibach Pro-Kit (apprx 1.3" drop, spring rates 330f/160r) and Tanabe GF 210 (advertised as
1.1" drop in the front and 0.9" rear, spring rates 325f/174r).

Stock rates are:
95-96 OEM Stock 2G FWD
Front: 246
Rear: 173
97-99 OEM Stock 2G FWD
Front: 246
Rear: 151

H&R OE Sports are a 1" drop, but the rate is unknown (10-15% stiffer than stock). Suspension Techniques are advertised as a 1.3" drop, but reportedly soft rates of 200f/160r with reports of the drop being as much as 1.5" (a seller has them on clearance on ebay BTW for $39).

H&R Race Springs are the stiffest at 430f/260R, but with a drop of 1.7" in the front and 2.0" in the rear. Megan Racing: 2" drop, 280f/250r, although it seems at one point they were 325f/280(ish)r. B&G, D2, and K-sport are a 2" drop, but not sure of the rate. A lot of generic/ebay brand springs are the same as Megan, 2" drop with the same advertised rate.

When these cars were newer, there were a ton of other options (Sprint, Progress, Neuspeed, RS*R) but since the newest DSM is more than 10 years old you aren't likely to find any of these new.

 

[99ECLIPSEGSXDSM]

First off, the ONLY thing that will make your faster is seat time. Experience over mods everyday of the week.

Secondly, your body roll is pretty bad, mine was with my stock GSX suspension, but youll have to deal with it until you lower the car. Most people will say a full set of coils is the way to go, and thats true, its a night and day difference. But since your on a strict budget and literally doing this for fun, like me, and not trying to whoop everyone, id go with some lowering springs.

You are correct, they will most likely kill your stock struts, and inch, maybe 1.5 would be the max.

Also, next time around, I wouldn't buy a 50 sidewall tire. Your going to get a a lot of side wall flex/roll. With that said, the stock wheels are way to narrow to run a nice wide tire. I know your class has width rules, but at the end of the day a 225 on a 7.5 or 8 inch wheel is going to perform better that a 225 on a 6.5 inch wheel.

Don't worry about being N/A and low on power. There are A LOT of people who run N/A cars with less power than your 2G and have a lot of fun while being competitive. Look at all the late 80 early 90s Civics/CRXs, running nothing but a setup suspension and some wider tires. They all ran the show, so much so the SCCA gave them their own class.

Seat time, seat time, seat time....and have fun.

^This

I wouldn't waste your money on lowering springs if you're gonna go with a coil over or the gc/yellow option down the road. Do it right the first time and you'll be happy. Lowering your car at all will make your struts blow out sooner then later. Another thing you can try is brake pads and new fluid. I run porterfieds and I love them.

 

[Scott McIntyre]

I started autox in 1999 with my 2GNT. Fell in love with the sport, but grew frustrated with my car when I saw 2G AWD's kicking butt. So after a couple of seasons in the 2GNT, I traded it for a 2G AWD and have been autox'ing the AWD since.

Moral of the story is... Don't put any money into your 2GNT to make it more competitive in autox. Instead, just try to run as many events as you can. If you stay hooked in the sport, you'll likely want to switch cars at some point, whether it be a 2G AWD, or an EVO, or something completely different.

 

[cait sith]

I agree with what's been said in this thread as to spend less on the car, more on the person behind the wheel. Something that hasn't been said here is that a full bucket seat + deep dish wheel (at least for my 6'1" tall self) helps out A LOT versus the stock seats, and will keep you planted in the car vs. having to brace yourself with the crap 2G seats. This would also be transferrable (except for the brackets/hub adapter) to another car in the future. I'm not sure as to where this would land you in SCCA rules (haven't done Autocross for a long time), but definitely a worthy look into.

Don't worry about being N/A and low on power. There are A LOT of people who run N/A cars with less power than your 2G and have a lot of fun while being competitive. Look at all the late 80 early 90s Civics/CRXs, running nothing but a setup suspension and some wider tires. They all ran the show, so much so the SCCA gave them their own class.

Seat time, seat time, seat time....and have fun.

Just a note on this, those Honda cars have probably 600-800 less (depending on the trim of the CRX) pounds than a 2G RS Eclipse... That's why they cleaned house with no power.

 

[T White]

Thanks for the replies! I think ill bag the springs and focus on learning how to drive for now. Doesn't seem like it's with the hassle unless I was gunna go all out on coil overs. Should I still get a poly bushing set? Mine still has the factory ones with 250k on them, and they look pretty hammered.

 

[ACM]

If you really really really have to spend money - gift yourself an Evolution School day.

$ for $ that will add more speed than any car mod costing the same. You will be stunned at what your car can do and how fast it can go.

And it won't blow your shocks out


Incidentally, if you want to kill your body roll, you want dampers, not springs. Autocross is constant transitions, so dampers will do a as good a job as springs, plus they'll help in other areas as well.