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2G Prep for AutoX

Posted by BLACK'98DSM, Dec 11, 2019

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  1. BLACK'98DSM

    BLACK'98DSM Proven Member

    1,543
    606
    Joined Feb 9, 2019
    Hoover, Alabama
    What should I hit first before starting Auto cross next season?

    What I've done or thought of so far:
    - beefy wheels and tires
    - performance brakes
    - coilovers and rebuilt steering
    - strut bars
    - my DOT helmet

    Really what I'm asking is what are the weak spots of the 2g fwd? And what else do I need to do to prepare?
     

    Road Race Build 3K  25

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    45  3

    2008 Tomberlin Crossfire 150R
    rwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    76  6

    2008 Tomberlin Crossfire (325 swapped)
    rwd · manual · Misc Vehicles
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  2. ec17pse

    ec17pse Freelancer

    3,742
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    Joined Nov 1, 2008
    London, Europe
    Prep all fluids and refresh the brake fluid and bleed them,

    What class you going in as that makes a difference when adding parts at a later date.

    Weak part of a fwd is the understeer. You can help this by upping the rear springs or roll bar to help the front turn, you basicslly want to speed the rear up to match the front and not slow the front down. Strut bars help, braces help, fender braces help. A very good alignment setup is key but you need adjustable arms to get the best out of the car and for auto X i say a bit of toe out to help the front turn/react faster but bare in mind you have to balance this out to the rear or you risk loosing the back end
     

    Road Race Build 10K  10  55

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    175 whp · 180.1 lb/ft · 2G DSM
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    Ludachris and BLACK'98DSM like this.
  3. Canadian_CD9A

    Canadian_CD9A Proven Member

    509
    200
    Joined Feb 10, 2012
    Winnipeg, MB, Canada
    Decide what class you want to run in first, and then build your car to suit. For a novice, I would run the Street class first. Generally, this limits you to very small deviations in wheel spec, street tires, changing dampers (but on stock springs), brake pads, air filter (but nothing else on the intake), one sway bar and exhaust after the catalytic converter. Get your feet wet, learn to drive and see where you want to go from there.
     
    BLACK'98DSM likes this.
  4. ileagleracing

    ileagleracing Proven Member

    223
    120
    Joined Sep 27, 2007
    Midwest City, Oklahoma
    Looking at your profile, your mods will at minimum put you in STS. The FWD DSM is not specifically listed in the Street Touring classes, so you fall under the "Catch-all" of non-turbo cars under 3.1 liters. Because of this, if you want to compete in national events, you will need to go thru the process of having the car officially classed.
    This is not required for local events.

    STS limits your wheel and tire size to 7.5 inches wide and 225, any diameter is ok.
    Read the rule book to make sure you mods are legal, to be honest, most people won't have a clue as to what class your car should run in.

    My suggestion would be to buy STS legal size Bridgestone RE-71R tires and just concentrate on driving and having fun, ride with experienced drivers, have them sit in with you in your car, have them drive your car with you shotgun.

    If you decide that autocross is for you, the the next 2 classes up: FSP or SMF (both Race Tire classes) probably represent the best fit for the car to be somewhat competitive. Or if you really want to be competitive sell the RS and buy an AWD, or a Miata.:p

    https://www.scca.com/pages/solo-cars-and-rules
    start at page 85 for Street touring
     

    Autocross Build 4K  28

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    160 whp · 190 lb/ft · 2G DSM

    Autocross Build 6K  28

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    313 whp · 305 lb/ft · 2G DSM
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  5. TK's9d2TSi

    TK's9d2TSi Previously tk106

    2,565
    905
    Joined Sep 11, 2017
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Pull your seat up one or two clicks from how you normally sit, torque your wheels and do all your maintenance checks.

    Go experience it first to see if it’s something you’re interest in before moding your car. +1 for Miata. They’re proven platform for autoX
     

    292  3

    2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Classic
    awd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    295  4

    93 Civic 4 Door -sold-
    fwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 2K  6

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.625 @ 111.42 · 1G DSM
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    BLACK'98DSM likes this.
  6. BLACK'98DSM

    BLACK'98DSM Proven Member

    1,543
    606
    Joined Feb 9, 2019
    Hoover, Alabama
    I sit right at the wheel anyway LOL. I'm right at 6 ft and I sit closer than you would imagine.
     

    Road Race Build 3K  25

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    45  3

    2008 Tomberlin Crossfire 150R
    rwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    76  6

    2008 Tomberlin Crossfire (325 swapped)
    rwd · manual · Misc Vehicles
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  7. BLACK'98DSM

    BLACK'98DSM Proven Member

    1,543
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    Joined Feb 9, 2019
    Hoover, Alabama
    What's wrong with having both? Really though, as soon as I find that low miles example of an AWD, I'm jumping on it.

    For now I'm just looking to have some fun, shake some hands, and see what this thing can do. I won't be doing international, I'm gonna try to stay in-state. There are a couple tracks around that I can practice at; the same ones that run the events. Also I'm waiting on the Power Tour to come back around. I was very disappointed that I didn't get to run in their little parking lot auto-x event. It looked fun as hell, and there was a green 1g Talon that was killing it out there!
     

    Road Race Build 3K  25

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    45  3

    2008 Tomberlin Crossfire 150R
    rwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    76  6

    2008 Tomberlin Crossfire (325 swapped)
    rwd · manual · Misc Vehicles
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  8. Kai Hefner

    Kai Hefner Freelancer

    255
    140
    Joined Jun 21, 2018
    Calgary, AB, Canada
    +1 on this. I've seen it too many times where someone builds a car for a type of racing, then realize that they don't like it. Saw a guy spend easily $30k on a rwd rally car, only to run it in one event and not like it.

    If you do decide that you like it, from what I've seen I'd say put most of your focus on suspension (I'm not an AutoX guy, just seen a few cars and people). DSMs are super sloppy to begin with, you'll want all the nice tubey things and stiff things: i.e. fender braces, roll cage connected to all towers (not sure if that puts you in a class though), bushings, etc.
     

    Street Build 468  1

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    Road Race Build 784  2

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  9. Ludachris

    Ludachris Founder & Zookeeper

    3,704
    1,142
    Joined Nov 12, 2001
    Roseville, California
    I remember when I found out that a MBC automatically bumped you up to street modified... needless to say I wasn't anything close to competitive in that class.

    Mod as little as you can. As Bobby said, fluids are important - good brake fluid. Good brake pads. Widest wheel/tire combo that will fit and not rub and has the biggest contact patch. A good performance alignment with some negative camber up front. Be sure your suspension bits are are all in good condition or replaced (ball joints, tie rod ends, wheel bearings, and anything else that contributes to slop). Outside of that, go try it several times and you'll learn what needs to be addressed as you learn the car and find the class you want to compete in.
     

    Street Build 9K  0

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD (sold)
    manual · 2G DSM

    Road Race Build 7K  10  23

    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    435.0 whp · 399.2 lb/ft · 1G DSM
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    BLACK'98DSM likes this.
  10. silvreclips

    silvreclips Proven Member

    1,123
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    Joined Jul 19, 2005
    Greenville, South Carolina
    For your first year, seat time will be the best thing for you. Make sure the car is ready, check fluids, set tire pressures, and just have fun. The 420a is a good reliable motor and should have no issues. Have a decent set of tires on the car or you will just be understeering all over the place.
     

    Autocross Build 384  1

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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    BLACK'98DSM likes this.
  11. BLACK'98DSM

    BLACK'98DSM Proven Member

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    Joined Feb 9, 2019
    Hoover, Alabama
    Any comments on wheel spacers? I want to space the wheels to hold 255's, but I've heard of the spacers cracking under stress...
     

    Road Race Build 3K  25

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    45  3

    2008 Tomberlin Crossfire 150R
    rwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    76  6

    2008 Tomberlin Crossfire (325 swapped)
    rwd · manual · Misc Vehicles
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    silvreclips likes this.
  12. silvreclips

    silvreclips Proven Member

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    Greenville, South Carolina
    What wheels/offsets are you trying to fit on the car? You can typically get away with a 5mm spacer, any more then that and you need extended studs.
     

    Autocross Build 384  1

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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  13. Canadian_CD9A

    Canadian_CD9A Proven Member

    509
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    Joined Feb 10, 2012
    Winnipeg, MB, Canada
    255 and wheels to suit will bump you way up in classing. Start small and learn to drive properly - the extra grip from the 255s will hide your mistakes.
     
    SAKJR likes this.
  14. BLACK'98DSM

    BLACK'98DSM Proven Member

    1,543
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    Joined Feb 9, 2019
    Hoover, Alabama
    I'll have to do some further testing and research before I make that decision. I just know how the front end has too much play and likes to slide instead of steering. And then the rear end doesn't have enough weight to it.

    I can't remember, but does the rear end have a sway bar? I'd like to add one if not...
     

    Road Race Build 3K  25

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    45  3

    2008 Tomberlin Crossfire 150R
    rwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    76  6

    2008 Tomberlin Crossfire (325 swapped)
    rwd · manual · Misc Vehicles
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  15. Canadian_CD9A

    Canadian_CD9A Proven Member

    509
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    Joined Feb 10, 2012
    Winnipeg, MB, Canada
    It would have a sway bar, yes. Making sure your suspension is working at 100%, plus alignment and upgrading your existing tires will go a long way to improving grip, but experience goes even further. If a pro driver races your car with you in it, you'll think you're on R-comps the way they figure out how to maximize available grip.
     
    BLACK'98DSM likes this.
  16. BLACK'98DSM

    BLACK'98DSM Proven Member

    1,543
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    Joined Feb 9, 2019
    Hoover, Alabama
    I'm on the fence about the tires. My current cheap set can't grab worth sh**, but I don't want to buy a better set that are too small and have that money wasted. I think early next year I'll go with some 235's to prevent wheel spacing, plus that is the max for my current wheels.
     

    Road Race Build 3K  25

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    45  3

    2008 Tomberlin Crossfire 150R
    rwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    76  6

    2008 Tomberlin Crossfire (325 swapped)
    rwd · manual · Misc Vehicles
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  17. BLACK'98DSM

    BLACK'98DSM Proven Member

    1,543
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    Joined Feb 9, 2019
    Hoover, Alabama
    Can anybody recommend some good performance struts/shocks? I just picked up some used Tokico, but the front ones are fried, and the rear don't match. I have some Gabriel for the rear, new and never used, but they don't produce for the front and they're a budget brand so I don't know how they'll hold up.
     

    Road Race Build 3K  25

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    45  3

    2008 Tomberlin Crossfire 150R
    rwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    76  6

    2008 Tomberlin Crossfire (325 swapped)
    rwd · manual · Misc Vehicles
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  18. Canadian_CD9A

    Canadian_CD9A Proven Member

    509
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    Joined Feb 10, 2012
    Winnipeg, MB, Canada
    Get some new Tokicos on used springs and stock-sized tires. If you don't like them, you'll at least have a year of experience with them and can move on. The RE71R will probably wear out quickly, but the BFG Rival S 1.5 would probably suit a newbie well. Alternatively, the Firestone Firehawk Indy 500 is an excellent all-around tire that would wear slower and be good for the rain (again, a great learning experience).

    If your setup is reliable and consistent (specifically, your suspension does as it should, and your tires aren't trash), it's not time wasted. Learning to go fast in a slow car is the best way to learn, I can't emphasize this enough. You need to get 100% out of a slow car to win, which makes you learn from your mistakes if you want to improve. You don't learn as well when you have huge power or infinite suspension grip because you don't have to.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2019
    BLACK'98DSM likes this.
  19. BLACK'98DSM

    BLACK'98DSM Proven Member

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    Hoover, Alabama
    I have coilovers on all 4's already (installing rear on Saturday), and aftermarket wheels (16x7). I do have the stocks wheels and tires in the garage, and its funny but the those 195's do grab way better than these 215's, simply because they are a better brand and softer composition.
     

    Road Race Build 3K  25

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    45  3

    2008 Tomberlin Crossfire 150R
    rwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    76  6

    2008 Tomberlin Crossfire (325 swapped)
    rwd · manual · Misc Vehicles
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  20. silvreclips

    silvreclips Proven Member

    1,123
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    Joined Jul 19, 2005
    Greenville, South Carolina
    You will be amazed at the level of grip a good tire can provide, even if it's only a 215 or 225.

    With the coilover setup you have you need to be careful which struts you buy next. Not all struts are made to the exact same size. When you buy that GC coil over sleeve kit, you have to tell them what struts you are running so they pair you up with the correct sleeves. I don't know how many different sleeves they have to choose from, but I would call them and see if there are any limitations. Koni yellows will be your best bet if the sleeves fit.
     

    Autocross Build 384  1

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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    BLACK'98DSM likes this.
  21. ileagleracing

    ileagleracing Proven Member

    223
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    Joined Sep 27, 2007
    Midwest City, Oklahoma
    There always seems to be a brand new "DG" Dennis Grant designed Koni yellow based coil over kit for sale in the classifieds, that's probably your best bet and it comes with the spherical bearing upper hats, those can still be used down the line if you decide to drop some real coin on your suspension.
    Install the coilovers, corner balance/align & buy some RE71Rs or Rivals. Then stop messing with the car, concentrate on the driver.
     

    Autocross Build 4K  28

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    160 whp · 190 lb/ft · 2G DSM

    Autocross Build 6K  28

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    313 whp · 305 lb/ft · 2G DSM
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  22. GofaST4life

    GofaST4life Proven Member

    801
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    Joined Oct 21, 2007
    Medina 44256, Ohio
    I'm just going to say it since no one else will. Do fluids, maintenance, and whatnot. Maybe tires if you want to spend the money AND THAT'S IT. Then drive your car in its stock form for as long as you can hold out. Two things will happen.
    1. Learning to drive a slow car fast will provide you with way more knowledge about the car and racing in general. If I could go back and do it all again, save the mod money and put it into some seat time. (99% certain you won't take this advice, oh well);)
    2. You'll soon realize that an N/A FWD model will have its limits, even if you're trying to be competitive locally and that mods will quickly bump you into a class you cant compete in. Sad but true. So save all the money and look for an AWD DSM or another car better suited for AX/track racing.

    I have spoken.
     

    2K  0

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 2G DSM
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  23. BLACK'98DSM

    BLACK'98DSM Proven Member

    1,543
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    Hoover, Alabama
    1. I'm not running a stock car. And don't have some of the stock parts to put back on if I wanted to.
    2. I will buy a prestine AWD, as soon as I find it.
    3. I'm doing this for fun and experience, so no worries.

    Competing is fun as hell. But I know, I know. N/T FWD
     

    Road Race Build 3K  25

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    45  3

    2008 Tomberlin Crossfire 150R
    rwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    76  6

    2008 Tomberlin Crossfire (325 swapped)
    rwd · manual · Misc Vehicles
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  24. BLACK'98DSM

    BLACK'98DSM Proven Member

    1,543
    606
    Joined Feb 9, 2019
    Hoover, Alabama
    Anybody else have any problems with steering delay? When I'm coming out of a hard turn I have to turn the wheel at least a half time before it responds. I don't think I'm loosing traction, I think it just takes a second for everything to get oving if it's under stress.
     

    Road Race Build 3K  25

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    45  3

    2008 Tomberlin Crossfire 150R
    rwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    76  6

    2008 Tomberlin Crossfire (325 swapped)
    rwd · manual · Misc Vehicles
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  25. ec17pse

    ec17pse Freelancer

    3,742
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    Joined Nov 1, 2008
    London, Europe
    your likely have the Ps pressure issues, you can modify the valve with a shim / washer to help this istuation of heaving steering and its mostly at high RPM's so i read. I believe there is a write up on here about it, I made a spacer to go inside my rebuilt unit but never installed the thing and now ditching Ps altogether
     

    Road Race Build 10K  10  55

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    175 whp · 180.1 lb/ft · 2G DSM
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