2G 2G 6 bolt swap starting issues

[Dlwill15]

Hello,

I am running into some issues with a recently purchased 95 Eagle Talon TSI AWD that has a 6 bolt swap in it. Unfortunately, the person I bought it from had little info on why it wouldn't start and just wanted to get rid of it.

The wiring on this car appears to be a disaster. My issue is that, when I first got it, I hooked up a battery and when I turn the key to start the car, I got nothing but a click from what I believe was the relay. Most likely a wiring issue, as I ran a wire from the back of the relay power wire to the starter and it now cranks over with no issues.

They put a walbro 255 fuel pump in it, which was not wired correctly so it was not turning on. Just to get fuel up to the injectors, I wired it to a switch and have some fuel pressure (probably not what is needed, but should at least get fuel into the car for now). Still no luck when turning over with the pump on. I pulled out some plugs and tested spark by grounding them to the car and sticking them in the coil wires but I don't believe I am getting any spark. This lead me down abunch of rabbit holes, which I thought was due to the 1G CAS. I put the engine at TDC (at least based off the cam wheel marks), pulled the CAS out and the notchs line up so it appears to have been installed correctly and wired correctly per the magnus 1g cas in a 2g diagram. When I have the CAS out and spin it, I hear a click (maybe a relay somewhere?) and then another click when it stops spinning. Not sure if there is a good was to test that it is giving signal back to the ECU, but I cannot get this thing to start. No spark, but unsure what it is from. Tried swapping the plugs around per the threads I have read but I am pretty much stumped. I even swapped the 1/2/14/15 pins in the ECU per the magnus swap instructions too but nothing. Left those pins swapped in the ECU.

Do I need to take the intake stuff off to get to the coil packs for the plugs? New to DSMs so hopefully all this info sparks an idea for someone as I am at a loss right now. Have thought about getting DSM Link just to help troubleshoot but I thought I could at least get it to idle (even poorly), but I can't.

Any help is appreciated. Have watched many videos and read through as many threads as I can but I think I am just missing something. Let me know if you need anymore info to assist or pictures.

 

[Dlwill15]

I pulled the coil packs out. Coil pack wire (from engine harness) has 12v on bottom wire and nothing on top two. My understanding is that these are 5v signal wires for each coil pack. I tested while turning the engine and no change in voltage. I also tested off of pin 10, ignition power transitor A, and got not change in voltage. Does that mean the ECU still isn't getting a CAS signal to start the coil power process?

 

[99dsmer4g63]

What for ecu you do you have in the car?

Does the check engine light illuminate when you turn the key on?

Your fuel pump is likely fine but not turning on because it’s not detecting the motor cranking

You should read through this thread as it has some good info going on currently.

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/no-power-to-ptu.544026/#post-153889208

-Daniel

 

[Dlwill15]

What for ecu you do you have in the car?

Does the check engine light illuminate when you turn the key on?

Your fuel pump is likely fine but not turning on because it’s not detecting the motor cranking

You should read through this thread as it has some good info going on currently.

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/no-power-to-ptu.544026/#post-153889208

-Daniel

It has a 2g ECU in it. 95, so it is the EPROM one I believe, no DSM Link just stock. Will have to check when I go out tomorrow but I think the check engine light is coming on. Will read through that thread and see if it helps, thanks! Car is killing me, really want to get it running but just can't get spark so it won't idle.

 

[steve]

I pulled the coil packs out. Coil pack wire (from engine harness) has 12v on bottom wire and nothing on top two. My understanding is that these are 5v signal wires for each coil pack. I tested while turning the engine and no change in voltage. I also tested off of pin 10, ignition power transitor A, and got not change in voltage. Does that mean the ECU still isn't getting a CAS signal to start the coil power process?

I don't believe that correct. The coil pack does get battery voltage which passes through the coil winding and comes out on the other end running to the Power Transistor Unit (Module) where under control of the ECU it switches that side of the coil to ground to charge the coil and when it stops the coil fires.

Here's the 2G diagram but the 91-94 1G's are very close to it. The 90 setup is unique.
Since it's not clear where your 6 bolt came from it's also not clear how it was implemented during the swap.

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[Dlwill15]

I don't believe that correct. The coil pack does get battery voltage which passes through the coil winding and comes out on the other end running to the Power Transistor Unit (Module) where under control of the ECU it switches that side of the coil to ground to charge the coil and when it stops the coil fires.

Here's the 2G diagram but the 91-94 1G's are very close to it. The 90 setup is unique.
Since it's not clear where your 6 bolt came from it's also not clear how it was implemented during the swap.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

That makes more sense. I just looked at the PTU today and tested it using the directions here:

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/how-to-test-the-power-transistors.229419/

PTU appears to be good. Got the bulb to light up on both tests. If the PTU is good but still no power to the coils (I'll have to recheck this as I plugged it in better), then ill probably need to trace the wires from the PTU harness plug to the ECU to make sure they're good.

I thought plugging the PTU back in better did it, as I got 1 pop from the engine when cranking but then I smelled burning and ISC112 on the ECU for the fuel/boost solenoid was slightly melted and smoking. Awesome!! Hopefully that isn't needed for spark.

Will use the graph provided and the ECU pinout to see if I can trace down all these wires. I also grounded the body of the PTU bracket as I wasn't sure if it grounds that way or through one of the pins.

Thing is driving me crazy. Thanks for the help! Will try to post stuff as I go but appears it may be wiring or the ECU just isn't aware it's cranking (CAS).

 

[Dlwill15]

Finally got some time away from the new job to look at the car more. I GOT IT RUNNING! It doesn't idle the best, but it idles smooth (just high RPM) and not hearing any misfires or anything like that so that is a good sign (compression test was 150 across except 100 in cylinder 1, but that will be something down the road). I'm not sure what exactly I did to fix it, as I did some things but will put them down below in case someone has similar issues and they can check/fix these.

1. Symptoms I was having at first was I would turn the key and it would give one click in a relay in the center dash and then nothing. Wire running from that relay that appears to be ground fed was bad or something, as I ran a new wire out the relays ignition powered wire (tested which wire got power only when I tried to crank) and it finally cranked over.

2. Spark plugs were pitch black, so replaced those first thing but I just couldn't get the fuel pump to kick on or any spark, no matter the order. They did a fuel pump "re-wire", which appeared to be incorrect so I just ran a ground to the pump and power through a switch that I can just flick on to get fuel. Adjusted AFPR to good fuel level and that was good. Never checked the injectors, but at this point still no spark so looked into that.

3. Spark issue came down to one (or multiple) of these things:
a. CAS was not adjusted properly (I think), so timing was out. Made sure wiring was good from the 6 bolt swap and it was, but some of the wires had random connectors and cuts so I replaced what I could. I found another thread on some pins (I think maybe 1,2,12,13, but those might be off. Look for good swap instructions) that I had to swap around on the ECU.
b. Coil packs had wires, which I assumed were correctly wired, on the back but one of the broke the first time I touched it so I pulled those off and rewired the packs to the triple triangle plug. This is where I also tested the PTM, as that is where the coils get charged for spark and not directly connecting to the ECU. PTM had a bad connector, cracks/etc, so I made sure they were getting good contact and tied the connector up properly.
c. Unplugged various connectors, checked wires, and plugged them back in all the way after cleaning off anything that looked like it might mess up something.

Ultimately, just a lot of random trial and error from other threads. Car runs, even bled the slave/master clutch cylinder and drove it down the street. Idle is super high, probably because the ISC is messed up or some other random connections but will work through all of those.

1995 Eagle Talon TSI, 6 Bolt Swap No Start, No Spark, No Fuel issues resolved. Thanks for the help everyone.

 

[SixBolt_16G]

Finally got some time away from the new job to look at the car more. I GOT IT RUNNING! It doesn't idle the best, but it idles smooth (just high RPM) and not hearing any misfires or anything like that so that is a good sign (compression test was 150 across except 100 in cylinder 1, but that will be something down the road). I'm not sure what exactly I did to fix it, as I did some things but will put them down below in case someone has similar issues and they can check/fix these.

1. Symptoms I was having at first was I would turn the key and it would give one click in a relay in the center dash and then nothing. Wire running from that relay that appears to be ground fed was bad or something, as I ran a new wire out the relays ignition powered wire (tested which wire got power only when I tried to crank) and it finally cranked over.

2. Spark plugs were pitch black, so replaced those first thing but I just couldn't get the fuel pump to kick on or any spark, no matter the order. They did a fuel pump "re-wire", which appeared to be incorrect so I just ran a ground to the pump and power through a switch that I can just flick on to get fuel. Adjusted AFPR to good fuel level and that was good. Never checked the injectors, but at this point still no spark so looked into that.

3. Spark issue came down to one (or multiple) of these things:
a. CAS was not adjusted properly (I think), so timing was out. Made sure wiring was good from the 6 bolt swap and it was, but some of the wires had random connectors and cuts so I replaced what I could. I found another thread on some pins (I think maybe 1,2,12,13, but those might be off. Look for good swap instructions) that I had to swap around on the ECU.
b. Coil packs had wires, which I assumed were correctly wired, on the back but one of the broke the first time I touched it so I pulled those off and rewired the packs to the triple triangle plug. This is where I also tested the PTM, as that is where the coils get charged for spark and not directly connecting to the ECU. PTM had a bad connector, cracks/etc, so I made sure they were getting good contact and tied the connector up properly.
c. Unplugged various connectors, checked wires, and plugged them back in all the way after cleaning off anything that looked like it might mess up something.

Ultimately, just a lot of random trial and error from other threads. Car runs, even bled the slave/master clutch cylinder and drove it down the street. Idle is super high, probably because the ISC is messed up or some other random connections but will work through all of those.

1995 Eagle Talon TSI, 6 Bolt Swap No Start, No Spark, No Fuel issues resolved. Thanks for the help everyone.

Congrats! Progress!