272/272 cams

[D_Eclipse9916]

Before any bastards starts flinging shit at my post, read the whole way through, its not much. Okay, basically I need my timing belt done in about 4k miles and I figured while I have that off I may as well do cams cuz ill eventually be doing cams maybe 5-10k miles after that once I get my turbo. Well im gonna have to take the timing belt off anyway to do the cams. I am on the stock t-25 with most of the mods in Stage 1 and im thinking I may wanna do the 272/272 setup while im doing the timing belt. Is this a stupid idea, I checked around and no one really said anything about cams on a stock t-25 :thumbdown . I have decided on a t04b and ill be running on a dsmlink with GM MAF and translator. If its a stupid idea, just tell me, but if its not a bad idea since ill be under the hood anyway. Plus if I got cams, am I gonna need anything else?

 

[BrokenTsi]

buy the cams and tell us how it runs.

But dont worry. Some know-it-all will post something about how stupid you are, or how you need cam gears, or how its pointless, or something retarded. Just buy the cams and install them. Makes perfect sense if you're going to upgrade soon anyways.

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

I think it's a good idea. Finally someone realizes that "staged" modding is ### and just do what makes you happy with your car. Nice to see you not putting 264's in it, those things are worthless for the money. Get a set of FP2's or Crower's 64414-2. I'd go ahead and put some valve springs and retainers in there if you can as well, Crower all the way.

 

[Generation X]

I think it's a good idea. Finally someone realizes that "staged" modding is ### and just do what makes you happy with your car. Nice to see you not putting 264's in it, those things are worthless for the money. Get a set of FP2's or Crower's 64414-2. I'd go ahead and put some valve springs and retainers in there if you can as well, Crower all the way.

I agree with you about the staged modding, but not about the HKS cams IMO. I currently run the HKS 264/272 combo with my set up and couldn't be more happy. HKS cams are some of the best made IMO.

 

[DsMWookie]

You should decide which cams you want by how high yo intend on revving...if your not going for a built valve train and revving 8k plus 264's or 264/272 would be quiet suitable.


I am running the to4b and I am going with 264/272 gives me some room to grow. If i do wanna rev higher and doesn't cause me to lose the low end that I want being that my car is staying daily driven and I want low end torque. Im not saying 272's arent streetable i just want low end for driving around town and racing. But I base this on the fact that im not intending on revving over 7.5k

 

[Rob Rohr]

Nice to see you not putting 264's in it, those things are worthless for the money.

Please explain how a pair of cams that has been proven to add 15-20whp without sacrificing spool up or low end torque is "worthless". Not everyone is looking for a 130mph+ 1/4 mile car that shakes your brains out at idle and doen't make useful power below 3500rpm! Some of us drive our cars dailly in stop and go traffic and appreciate a refined idle (yes I still have balance shafts!) and good low RPM throttle response. $550 for 20hp is fine with me

 

[twenty5psi]

Please explain how a pair of cams that has been proven to add 15-20whp without sacrificing spool up or low end torque is "worthless". Not everyone is looking for a 130mph+ 1/4 mile car that shakes your brains out at idle and doen't make useful power below 3500rpm! Some of us drive our cars dailly in stop and go traffic and appreciate a refined idle (yes I still have balance shafts!) and good low RPM throttle response. $550 for 20hp is fine with me

Because for the same price you can have a larger set of cams that will not hurt you to have in the long run..I've never met someone that got to their goal of 13's,or 12's and have stopped modding their car right there and then..Speed is an addiction and people want to go faster..Also,It'll be alot easier trying to sell a pair of 272's in the long run instead of a pair of 264's because they're the more popular cam of choice right now..IMO,do what you'd like to and take our comments as opinions only..You're the one buying them,not us..Good luck with your choice..

 

[Rob Rohr]

Because for the same price you can have a larger set of cams that will not hurt you to have in the long run..I've never met someone that got to their goal of 13's,or 12's and have stopped modding their car right there and then..Speed is an addiction and people want to go faster....

Yes, these are all opinions. How can you say the 272s "will not hurt"? I assure you that they make less power below 3000rpm compared to either stock 1G, HKS 264 or Comp 101100 cams, and I am not convinced that their power advantage starts until almost 6000rpm. Some who might be looking to gain respect from big dyno-queen numbers will no doubt be impressed by the 272s on the top end, but I spend a great deal on my driving time below 4000rpm which is where the smaller cams are much nicer than the large 272s.

Building a DSM to run 11s with the vast array of parts on the maket today is not difficult to do. Bulding a DSM that is reliable, runs on pump gas, has the civilty of new car, a full interior and runs 11s is much more difficult to do! Who wants to drive back and forth to work in a gutted 1G with FP4 cams, FP3575, solid motor mounts, ACT2900 clutch and a 3.5" exhaust....oh yeah some of you street racers probably think that would be cool

 

[twenty5psi]

Yes, these are all opinions. How can you say the 272s "will not hurt"? I assure you that they make less power below 3000rpm compared to either stock 1G, HKS 264 or Comp 101100 cams, and I am not convinced that their power advantage starts until almost 6000rpm. Some who might be looking to gain respect from big dyno-queen numbers will no doubt be impressed by the 272s on the top end, but I spend a great deal on my driving time below 4000rpm which is where the smaller cams are much nicer than the large 272s.

Building a DSM to run 11s with the vast array of parts on the maket today is not difficult to do. Bulding a DSM that is reliable, runs on pump gas, has the civilty of new car, a full interior and runs 11s is much more difficult to do! Who wants to drive back and forth to work in a gutted 1G with FP4 cams, FP3575, solid motor mounts, ACT2900 clutch and a 3.5" exhaust....oh yeah some of you street racers probably think that would be cool

What you would lose on the bottom end would be gained on the top end but this is not what you are looking for so good luck..

 

[jtmcinder]

My guess is that this will cause you to move forward your plans to get the larger turbo. To be precise, I think you'll be shopping for said larger turbo after about 10 minutes of driving a t25 with a 272 intake cam.

But I could be wrong. Cognitive dissonance might delay your decision an extra 5 minutes.

- Jtoby

 

[Waredtalontsi]

For all the guys complaining about "streetable" dsm with hks 272's. I honestly dont think that you guys have ever driven or been in a dsm with 272's. I myself have a daily driven dsm with Hks 272's and theres nothing to complain about it. I see no point in having to buy cams twice just go ahead and go with the hks 272's. Alot of people go with the 264/272 combo and next thing you know there selling there 264 cam so they can buy the matching 272 cam. Waste of time and money if you ask me.

 

[diambo4life]

I should be installing my 272/272 set when I get the car running so I should definitely be able to give a good comparison since my car had perfect stock idle. Good or worse the 272's will be staying there.

 

[beat90tsi]

http://www.automotosports.com/cam_test.asp


"HKS 264 Intake 264 Exhaust

Peak HP: 323.1

Peak TRQ: 333.0

Spool up on street: As good as stock (3.2K RPM), with off boost power the same if not better than stock.



HKS 264 Intake 272 Exhaust

Peak HP: 324.2

Peak TRQ: 333.1

Spool up on street: Slightly slower than stock (3.3K RPM in 3rd gear) and a very slight loss in power in off boost conditions.



HKS 272 Intake 272 Exhaust

Peak HP: 325.2

Peak TRQ: 323.4

Spool up on street: Slower than stock, full boost by 3.4K RPM in 3rd gear with a slight loss in power in off boost conditions."



I don't know how so many people can say the 264s are the half-way cams, I guess those are the people that enjoy lag, and runing their cars to redline constantly. Personally I'd like to keep my car as streetable as possible, and I guess the fact that the 264s actually outperform the 272s in this test doesn't hurt either.

Do some research, 264s are better 99% of the time.

You want to talk about wasting time and money, buy new cams, and have less power in the range where you do 90%+ of your driving, sounds good to me. :thumbdown

 

[PJay]

http://www.automotosports.com/cam_test.asp


"HKS 264 Intake 264 Exhaust

Peak HP: 323.1

Peak TRQ: 333.0

Spool up on street: As good as stock (3.2K RPM), with off boost power the same if not better than stock.



HKS 264 Intake 272 Exhaust

Peak HP: 324.2

Peak TRQ: 333.1

Spool up on street: Slightly slower than stock (3.3K RPM in 3rd gear) and a very slight loss in power in off boost conditions.



HKS 272 Intake 272 Exhaust

Peak HP: 325.2

Peak TRQ: 323.4

Spool up on street: Slower than stock, full boost by 3.4K RPM in 3rd gear with a slight loss in power in off boost conditions."



I don't know how so many people can say the 264s are the half-way cams, I guess those are the people that enjoy lag, and runing their cars to redline constantly. Personally I'd like to keep my car as streetable as possible, and I guess the fact that the 264s actually outperform the 272s in this test doesn't hurt either.

Do some research, 264s are better 99% of the time.

You want to talk about wasting time and money, buy new cams, and have less power in the range where you do 90%+ of your driving, sounds good to me. :thumbdown

that test was done with a 16g on its last breath. a bigger turbo will yield better results with the more aggressive cams.

 

[GPTourer]

Bah, 272s are weak, just wait until the 280s come out. They already have them for Evos - its only a matter of time and you'll be dumping those 72's on Ebay.

But seriously. Are you buying the HKS's new? With that 600 dollars or so, a bunch of other stuff could be done that you could take advantage of. I don't see how the cams could make the car any more enjoyable or produce any advatanges since the T-25 is such a punchy midrange turbo and has runs out of breath up top where the cams are supposed to work. It would be a neat experiment, but not something I would want to drive around all day. That is, unless its only going to be a few weeks until your other upgrades come in, if so - then by all means, dyno it and let us see how it turns out.

 

[beat90tsi]

I know the 272s will yield better gains with bigger turbos, but how much bigger of a turbo is feasible to run on the street?

 

[Generation X]

Any of the HKS cam combos IMO would be more than plenty of enough cam for 80% of the people on this board.

 

[twenty5psi]

I know the 272s will yield better gains with bigger turbos, but how much bigger of a turbo is feasible to run on the street?

That all comes down to the driver..I know there are people running the red's,3052's on the streets and alot of other people that think the 50 trim is pushing it..It really comes down to the driver and how the car is setup up..Their are too many variables to take into consideration when asking what's pushing it..

 

[Staytuned]

I say go for it get the 272's now....the same people will try to discourage you that say a FMIC on a T25 is bad idea because it will cause huge lag.

You really won't know till you try it. I laid down some good numbers at 19psi with my T25 and a Greddy FMIC.

And if you are going to have the head apart anyways ...why not go for it.

 

[anomalyinva]

I would suggest FP2s as well.