20 psi on stock injectors...?

[95blackGsTurbo]

You can insure you get as much from the turbo as you can by turning the boost down until you get any and all leaks fixed and keep it around 22psi. That is the max for a 14b. After that you are basically free wheeling it and that isn't good for it.

 

[nightspeed87]

I know ppl are able to run 20 psi on stock injectors just by increasing fuel pressure for instance putting a n/t 4g63 fpr on you dsm will add like 10 more psi and make your 450s flow like 505ccs.
Also did you consider your fuel filter, is it new? I know thats one thing I over looked and I plan on getting a knN highflow unit and bigger steel braided lines running to the rail . The wideband wouldnt be completely accurate ( depending ) considering that the number 1cylinder runs way more lean than the other three since its the last cylinder to recieve fuel and the least amount at that.
I say like everyone else says, turn the boost down, id run it at like 16lbs and figure out your problem at that point, and besides the 14b is just blowing hot air past 20psi anyways and it wont help your knock problem. This is a matter of destroying your motor here, figure out all the problems first, and definitly get off of those 450s.I got my ecu chipped and im going to have it rechipped to run some 880s or bigger just to be safe because I feel 650s still dont give much room to play with if your getting into 50trims and bigger.

 

[Ultimatedsm]

Alright, I am going to give a proper answer to this whole thread right now. 20 psi on stock fuel injectors....NO alright...NO. I will say it again....NO..sure your A/F ratio looks good, you don't realize those fuel injectors are just stuck open at that boost level (More than 100% IDC). My car with a 14B at 16 psi got 95% IDC.

Stuck open fuel injectors are very hard to tune with and if one of those stuck open fuel injector misses a beat, all of a sudden your car will go lean and you will break something. I just saw your Log and man, you are knocking pretty badly. Your timing is VERY low because of your horrible knock count. You have 43 counts of knock in 1st gear, 2nd gear you have 25 counts of knock.

Turn down your boost to 15 psi or blow your motor thats the bottomline. Knock sensor is the last line of defence, so after that its bye bye motor. I don't care what anyone tells you, running 20 psi with stock fuel injectors is just asking for it. Sure some people get lucky, but why risk that over $200.00 worth of fuel injectors. It is a lot better spending thousands rebuilting your motor.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

Excessive pulse width means his injectors could be at too high of a duty cycle, hence running lean, and hence the knock. If you see knock that is DIRECTLY corrisponding to how long the injectors are open, there's a good chance its fuel related and no chance that it's just a coincidence.

Excessively retarded timing can also cause incompletely burn or the mixture buring on its way out into the exhaust. Either one yeilds incorrectly low AFR's.

 

[polishshark]

Alright, I am going to give a proper answer to this whole thread right now. 20 psi on stock fuel injectors....NO alright...NO. I will say it again....NO..sure your A/F ratio looks good, you don't realize those fuel injectors are just stuck open at that boost level (More than 100% IDC). My car with a 14B at 16 psi got 95% IDC.

Stuck open fuel injectors are very hard to tune with and if one of those stuck open fuel injector misses a beat, all of a sudden your car will go lean and you will break something. I just saw your Log and man, you are knocking pretty badly. Your timing is VERY low because of your horrible knock count. You have 43 counts of knock in 1st gear, 2nd gear you have 25 counts of knock.

Turn down your boost to 15 psi or blow your motor thats the bottomline. Knock sensor is the last line of defence, so after that its bye bye motor. I don't care what anyone tells you, running 20 psi with stock fuel injectors is just asking for it. Sure some people get lucky, but why risk that over $200.00 worth of fuel injectors. It is a lot better spending thousands rebuilting your motor.

I get the idea!! the boost is down. so you don't think that the knock at the low (2000-2500)rpm is false?? there is no boost at that rpm

 

[UofACATS]

Alright, I am going to give a proper answer to this whole thread right now. 20 psi on stock fuel injectors....NO alright...NO. I will say it again....NO..sure your A/F ratio looks good, you don't realize those fuel injectors are just stuck open at that boost level (More than 100% IDC). My car with a 14B at 16 psi got 95% IDC.

What I was going to say. Injectors are going wide-open.

 

[Ultimatedsm]

If your timing is too advanced at 2000-2500 RPM you can get knock, it can also be phantom knock, or your Knock sensor could be lose, so check if its on nice and tight. If it's lose, it will rattle a little (You won't hear this) and it will think your motor is knocking but it is really ratting because its not tight enough on the block. It is a good idea to change your knock sensor at around 80,000 miles.

If you have lifter ticking or something in your engine is ticking, your knock sensor sometimes picks this up (phantom knock). However, your knock sensor isn't lying to you at boost, that log looks just about right for that much boost. You should check your spark plugs, I bet they are nice and white. White plugs indicates you are running lean or hot and if you take your exhaust manifold off and see nice white exhaust ports on your head, thats another indication you are running too hot.

Just spend the $200.00 and you can run 20 psi all day long as long as you log it and tune it properly, if with your upgraded fuel injectors, you can blow your motor. So it is all about tuning, and it is all about tuning for no knock.

 

[90 TSI FWD]

i'm running 19psi on a second setting on the safcII and the most injector duty i get is around 94-96% and i still have room to lean it out a bit in this cold weather because it runs a little rich at WOT. i guess its just the tuning because the most knock i see is 2 counts when the turbo spools.

 

[Ultimatedsm]

My answer to you is every car is different. Some cars will knock like crazy, some will be a little better at it. By the way, do you have a wide band to tune your car with? Or your just trying to tune it with the datalogger/SAFC only. Can you please post a log of your run at 19 psi, I am surprised your duty cycle is that low for your stock fuel injectors.

 

[polishshark]

If your timing is too advanced at 2000-2500 RPM you can get knock, it can also be phantom knock, or your Knock sensor could be lose, so check if its on nice and tight. If it's lose, it will rattle a little (You won't hear this) and it will think your motor is knocking but it is really ratting because its not tight enough on the block. It is a good idea to change your knock sensor at around 80,000 miles.

knock sensor is brand new... i though that if it's too tigh it will see phantom knock..[/QUOTE]

If you have lifter ticking or something in your engine is ticking, your knock sensor sometimes picks this up (phantom knock). However, your knock sensor isn't lying to you at boost, that log looks just about right for that much boost.

could i drill bigger holes in my lifters? would that help? how much bigger shoud i make them?

You should check your spark plugs, I bet they are nice and white. White plugs indicates you are running lean or hot and if you take your exhaust manifold off and see nice white exhaust ports on your head, thats another indication you are running too hot.

i changed my spark plugs recently ... i thought that could've been the prob... they were fine rust like ...even blackish rust..

 

[polishshark]

i'm running 19psi on a second setting on the safcII and the most injector duty i get is around 94-96% and i still have room to lean it out a bit in this cold weather because it runs a little rich at WOT. i guess its just the tuning because the most knock i see is 2 counts when the turbo spools.

what are you trying to say?... my tunes are not the prob.. read the other thread or look at my log..

 

[polishshark]

My answer to you is every car is different. Some cars will knock like crazy, some will be a little better at it. By the way, do you have a wide band to tune your car with? Or your just trying to tune it with the datalogger/SAFC only. Can you please post a log of your run at 19 psi, I am surprised your duty cycle is that low for your stock fuel injectors.

stock fuel injectors..... ppl say they're good for 18 psi... well imagine high pressure fuel pump pumps lets say... twice as much pressure... the more pressure the higher flow the more fuel ijectors will inject... you guys got to keep that in mind...

although those 2 counts of knock is little... check your knock sensor.. mine would show low knock when it was bad.. there was stuff coming out of it...

 

[fallenauthority]

could i drill bigger holes in my lifters? would that help? how much bigger shoud i make them?

NO! DONT DO THAT. Buy the revised lifters, its only like 120 bucks for a full new set of lifters.

 

[Ultimatedsm]

stock fuel injectors..... ppl say they're good for 18 psi... well imagine high pressure fuel pump pumps lets say... twice as much pressure... the more pressure the higher flow the more fuel ijectors will inject... you guys got to keep that in mind...

although those 2 counts of knock is little... check your knock sensor.. mine would show low knock when it was bad.. there was stuff coming out of it...

450cc fuel injectors are 450's, if you raise the fuel pressure to 55 PSI, sure yea you will get more volume which will closer to 505cc. HOWEVER, you are running them way over their designed duty cycle, you will run over 100% IDC at that point and your just asking for it.

You shouldn't run another more than 85% duty cycle which I think your ECU starts to pull timing (I could be wrong, someone confirm this). So get larger fuel injectors if you want to run more than 15 psi period, you can easily tune the larger ones and you will make more power.

 

[polishshark]

NO! DONT DO THAT. Buy the revised lifters, its only like 120 bucks for a full new set of lifters.

why not...

isn't that the only difference between them? the size of the holes? my bro works on CNC mill he could drill them for me..

 

[polishshark]

450cc fuel injectors are 450's, if you raise the fuel pressure to 55 PSI, sure yea you will get more volume which will closer to 505cc. HOWEVER, you are running them way over their designed duty cycle, you will run over 100% IDC at that point and your just asking for it.

You shouldn't run another more than 85% duty cycle which I think your ECU starts to pull timing (I could be wrong, someone confirm this). So get larger fuel injectors if you want to run more than 15 psi period, you can easily tune the larger ones and you will make more power.

i already ordered bigger injectors... but i don't know if you saw my logs i'm trying to get rid of the knock. were you the one that said to tighten it more...? isn't that bad... it shouldn't be too tight..

 

[Ultimatedsm]

It should be torqued to manufactures specs. Check if your knock sensor is torque to specs. Obivously you should not tightened to lets say 100 ft ibs . If its lose it can cause phantom knock.

Wasn't your log at like 20 psi?

 

[polishshark]

It should be torqued to manufactures specs. Check if your knock sensor is torque to specs. Obivously you should not tightened to lets say 100 ft ibs . If its lose it can cause phantom knock.

Wasn't your log at like 20 psi?

i think it was 20 or 23 ... i'm not talking about the knock above 3000 rpm i'm talking about the knock below 3000
the prob with torque wrench is that i cann't get there with it...

 

[Ultimatedsm]

i think it was 20 or 23 ... i'm not talking about the knock above 3000 rpm i'm talking about the knock below 3000
the prob with torque wrench is that i cann't get there with it...

Does your engine sound loud? Does it have loud lifter noise? I think your knock sensor is just picking up vibration from other sources. Does your engine vibrate a lot?

 

[Generation1JeY]

I got a question for everyone.

I'm on a completely stock system as far as fuel and intakes and what not, and i get over 100% IDC near redline at ONLY 9PSI. If i turn the boost up to around 12-13 the IDC seems to stay the same, however, i will start getting large counts (6-14) of knock through the rpm range. These are all 3rd gear pulls. I have a BRAND new knock sensor torqued to spec, and zero lifter tick, i just got finished with a rebuild.

I'm wondering why my IDCs are so high and how i can be knocking at such low boost settings.

Thank you.

 

[fallenauthority]

I got a question for everyone.

I'm on a completely stock system as far as fuel and intakes and what not, and i get over 100% IDC near redline at ONLY 9PSI. If i turn the boost up to around 12-13 the IDC seems to stay the same, however, i will start getting large counts (6-14) of knock through the rpm range. These are all 3rd gear pulls. I have a BRAND new knock sensor torqued to spec, and zero lifter tick, i just got finished with a rebuild.

I'm wondering why my IDCs are so high and how i can be knocking at such low boost settings.

Thank you.

Check for boost leaks, probably pissing out half the air you are pushing through the turbo.

 

[polishshark]

Does your engine sound loud? Does it have loud lifter noise? I think your knock sensor is just picking up vibration from other sources. Does your engine vibrate a lot?

as i was asking before... yes it does vibrate... i don't have balanceshafts and i got all 4 energy engine mounts... i don't know if they're urethane or something else... but they're hard.. the engine doesn't move at all it just vibrates... the whole car vibrates.. that's the reason i asked if anyone had the same setup and a similar prob...

and the lifters are kind of loud at idle, i mean you can hear them cliking... i never noticed them sounding when driving....

fo you know if the only difference between the new lifters and the oldones is the size of the hole?

 

[Ultimatedsm]

Alright, get revised lifters from the 3G and nothing you can do about your vibration. All of these things CAN produce phantom knock. It is nothing dangerious so don't worry about it, worry about the knock at boost. The new lifters have larger openings for the oil to pass through and NO do no drill your stock lifters, the clearances and accuracy of those holes are crutial. You screw that up, and you will be buying more than just fuel injectors . Anyway, have more questions, fire away!

 

[Generation1JeY]

Check for boost leaks, probably pissing out half the air you are pushing through the turbo.

I have done boost leak tests and i don't have any leaks.

 

[polishshark]

Alright, get revised lifters from the 3G and nothing you can do about your vibration. All of these things CAN produce phantom knock. It is nothing dangerious so don't worry about it, worry about the knock at boost. The new lifters have larger openings for the oil to pass through and NO do no drill your stock lifters, the clearances and accuracy of those holes are crutial. You screw that up, and you will be buying more than just fuel injectors . Anyway, have more questions, fire away!

see the thing is that my bro works on CNC (computer numeric control) machines.. he would drill them for me.. the Hass mill is accurate till like 0.0005 or so

see there is a prob with that knock, it retards the timing.. right?

but if i can't do nothing oh.. well..

by the way.. i just received new injectors today.. i got 680s and i just thought....are they too big for stock ecu.. my AFC will control them fine, but won't the timing be of..?