1g 1st and 2nd shifting problems

[jakes97gs]

Hey guys, I'm looking for some help regarding my 1g tsi awd. Recently after some minor beating I noticed that the car was getting a little harder to shift into second. It has always been a little notchy upshifting into 2nd, but now it was like I had to hold the shifter in position for a little while before the sunchros would let me in. I had attributed it to the cold, as here in WI it was in the single digits. But then a day or two later (it warmed up) the car began to get difficult to shift into first gear. I would have to let the clutch out and push it in a few times before it would go into gear. I had assumed maybe the master cylinder rod needed adjusting, and when I went to check it out I noticed that the M.C. was leaking. I have since replaced it and bled the crap out of it (using multiple methods I have found on this thread) and I still have the same problem with shifiting. I have checked the new M.C. is not leaking, bled the system probably 20 times, checked my slave cylinder, and adjusted the M.C. rod like crazy using the jacks transmission clutch adjustment video as a reference. I have noticed however that it seems like I cannot adjust the rod on my M.C. far enough to block off the valve which would make my adjustment "Too Far out". I am assuming this is my problem and wondering how to fix it. I have found on the forums where this kind of thing is a result of the worn pedal assembly, and mine does appear to have about an extra 3/4 inch of travel. However, in all my searching, I have been unable to determine what kind of synmptoms a worn pedal assembly would cause. Does it sound like this is my problem? otherwise it seems like the issue might be internal or... I really don't know. I know this is a long post and I apologize if it is a simple answer, but I have searched quite a bit and I am at a loss for what to do. Thanks!

 

[jakes97gs]

I've also noticed that the shifting issue isn't consistent. For example, at on stoplight it will shift like a dream, the next one it won't let me in and I have to push the clutch in and out once or twice before it will. I try to keep my clutching consistent, but I find that when I push the clutch in more slowly it seems to be better. Also wanted to clarify that that 3rd 4th 5th and reverse all work with no issues at all. So if anyone has any input that may help I would love to hear it!! Thanks

 

[DSM1G90]

I call it a clutch/adjustment issue since you can shift smoothly at a stop at certain times-it's not fully releasing itself from the flywheel.

If you did all of that adjustments via Jack's website, I'd bet you got a clutch fork area that is all but worn out where the tranny needs pulled and either the fork needs replacing, or the fork ball needs to be shimmed forward.

 

[Mitsu82330]

I agree with DSM1G90 that it is probably an adjustment/engagement issue since it only seems to be affecting certain gears. However, there is a quick way to rule out the pedal assembly. Press down on the clutch pedal and let it spring back to its natural position. Then, put your foot under the pedal and try to pull it back towards yourself. If the pedal moves at all this indicates that the pedal assembly is worn/broken.

 

[Turboturd]

I agree with DSM1G90 that it is probably an adjustment/engagement issue since it only seems to be affecting certain gears. However, there is a quick way to rule out the pedal assembly. Press down on the clutch pedal and let it spring back to its natural position. Then, put your foot under the pedal and try to pull it back towards yourself. If the pedal moves at all this indicates that the pedal assembly is worn/broken.

This method does not always work. My pedal came all the way back out with no problem despite the assembly being terribly wornout. The only real way to get a good look at the assembly if you cant tell by physically looking at the master while moving the clutch with your hand is to take the entire thing out of the car. But that isn't normally necessary, if the pedal travels more than 1/2" before you see the master cylinder rod move you have a problem. Mine moved several inches before the rod moved, so it was easy to tell.

I'm thinking its a disengagement issue as well, so fork or pivot ball

 

[jakes97gs]

I apologize perhaps I was unclear, when I do the test for worn clutch assembly, I can move the pedal up a good amount (probably 3/4 inch or so) I was wondering if a worn pedal assembly would cause these symptoms. I thought that maybe if it was in fact the pedal assembly, then I would have a more consistent issue. thanks for the input guys!

 

[DSM1G90]

There is one more test one can do and this is just a visual:

Look under the car to where you see the fork rod is extending out of the bell housing with the slave rod next to it.

Is the fork rod in the middle of the opening, or is it towards the passenger side of the tranny.

Being in the middle shows that the fork assembly is in good condition and adjusted correctly.

But, if the fork rod is towards the passenger side, the fork/ball is worn causing the fork rod not to move all the way to that one side all the way as it should be since the opening in the bell housing is stopping the necessary travel length of the fork...and this will prevent full disengaging of the clutch and the hard shifting into first (and don't do any forcing, for that will make matters very worse).

If so, it's a tranny drop for repair or adjustment of the fork assembly including the ball.

Good luck as always - DSM

 

[jakes97gs]

I checked like you said, and the fork appears to be right in the center, so that should be all good. I just want to verify, my pedal takes a little force to move upwards after its out, does this sound right? I was under the assumption that a worn pedal assembly would be kind of wobbly in regards to play, whereas mine seems solid, but I with the force of my foot behind it I can move it upwards. Thanks!

 

[Turboturd]

Have you tried the clutch drag test yet? Rev it up in neutral with the clutch pedal pushed in, it should go all the way to redline without the car creeping forward. If it moves forward it's dragging, that tells you for sure it is an adjustment problem.

And no the pedal itself will not be wobbly side to side or anything. It's a fulcrum point, and the bar that is behind it that the pedal moves to rotate the crossover shaft is the one that wears out. Essentially it rounds off as the metal deteriorates, just google photos of clutch lever wear to see what I mean. Another thing is that the factory lever bushings are plastic, and they wear over time, especially with aftermarket clutches installed. When people replace these items they insert brass bushings and weld the lever arm to the pedal, so it cant move and wear out over time

 

[Mitsu82330]

The fact that there is 3/4in play in the pedal and that the fork is sitting in the right spot is making me lean more towards the pedal assembly now. I had this issue when I first bought my current DSM and the car drove home fine with an ACT 2600 in it. The moment I put a lighter clutch in there (South Bend) the car refused to shift. I never felt anything amiss through the pedal, but after inspecting the assembly it was clear I had a worn assembly.

I agree with Turboturd, the only way to really rule this out is to get up underneath the dash and watch the master cylinder rod movement while you push in on the pedal assembly. The easiest way I've found to accomplish this test is to remove the driver seat so I can lay down in the car. Otherwise its a bear to get an eye on that rod. There should be about .25-.50in movement of the clutch pedal and then you should see the rod begin to move. If the pedal moves more than .50in and you don't see movement of the master cylinder rod than the pedal assembly should be pulled and inspected as it is most likely worn. When I did this test my pedal moved a good inch or so before I saw any movement in my master rod. I might add...before you perform this test make sure the pedal is pulled out towards yourself completely so any free play can be detected.

 

[jakes97gs]

I crawled up under my dash and checked for free play in the pedal before the master cylinder rod moves, and found that I only have an 1/8th inch or so. I also noticed that most, if not all of this play is from slop between the u shaped bracket which the master cylinder rod threads into, and the dowel (?) that secures the bracket. So I do not believe that my pedal assembly is in fact the problem. I am leaning towards unpurged air in the system though, and will hopefully be bleeding the system once again as thoroughly as possible. I hope thats all it is, and I will update with my findings. Thanks guys

I got my system all bled with a vacuum bleeder, which seemed to work quite well. However, after it was all bled and I checked at a stand still (with the car running) the car was better about letting me in gear, however it still would lock me out seemingly at random. again I noticed that pushing the clutch down more slowly was more likely to let me in gear. Checking the fork travel however, I noticed that the fork would travel all the way to the passenger side and then contact the inside of the bellhousing where there is a high spot in the molding. This is most likely from a worn ball assembly correct? And I should be able to reasonably assume that this is the cause of my clutch not fully disengaging as well? thanks

 

[jakes97gs]

Ok guys scratch my last update. after looking at it again, I realized the fork was not hitting the housing... I was just looking at it wrong... it was late However. Today I took the car into my dad's machine shop and through experimentation by shimming the slave cylinder rod (which in theory should act like lengthening the master cylinder rod or perhaps shimming the clutch fork) found that not only is my clutch fork travelling as it should but even if I extend the travel of the fork (even ground out some of the bellhousing where the fork would hit so I could make even more travel) the clutch still does not want to disengage. I am led to believe that my problem is indeed internal, perhaps a result of a strange clutch failure since it happened after a night of minor beating on the car (snow drifting ). I had sort of a similar problem when some of the fingers broke off my act 2100 in my 2g, and I wonder if maybe something failed on this clutch. It is an ebay "stage 2" So I wouldn't be too surprised if it failed.

 

[luv2rallye]

Since it's just 1st and 2nd gear with the problem, another possibility is a worn select lever shoe not allowing the tranny [shifter] control shaft to move far enough. See: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/mai...t-fifth-gear-grinding-help.html#post152266167

 

[jakes97gs]

Ive been noticing more and more that my other gears are starting to be affected as well though. For example sometimes third also wants to lock me out and if 4th has popped out on me more than once recently.

 

[luv2rallye]

Ive been noticing more and more that my other gears are starting to be affected as well though. For example sometimes third also wants to lock me out and if 4th has popped out on me more than once recently.

First check shifter cables for movement (their casing should be securely bolted down and not move) while someone shifts for you. Then check that tranny shift levers move all the way while shifting. Then check the select lever shoe width. If all ok you probably have an internal tranny problem (like worn shaft bearings that allow the input or intermediate shaft to move due to too much end play, or a worn shifter fork, or even a worn hub/slider).

 

[jakes97gs]

I'm gonna go and test all of this tonight and share my results, but I thought of something. When I am locked out of a gear, it just locks me out it seldom ever grinds. I guess that seems weird to me and suggests perhaps my issue is not clutch related at all (as you seem to be suggesting ralleye)

Ok I checked out what you told me to Rallye, and it seemed all good. I did tighten the bracket for the shift linkage on the trans. but it barely had any wobble. But, for funsies, I decided to mess with the master cylinder rod adjustment for a while, and I noticed that as I turned it in (shorter) the car was more and more easily letting me into first (while running) Eventually I was able to get into first with no resistance every single time at a stand still with the pedal adjustment just right. I then noticed however that it was more difficult to get into 3rd 4th and 5th. So I decided to go for a ride, and literally the first time I came to a stop, I was locked out of first. the rest of the drive (i stopped and adjusted the pedal in both directions as well with no improvement) the car was still locking me out of first about every other time, and if I didn't take care in really getting into second, it wouldn't let me in either. Probably irrelevant, but the car pops out of second when downshifting nearly every time... just throwing that out there. What could possibly cause this variation in shifting? my dad is throwing around the idea of crankwalk because of the intermittant thing but does that seem likely? It's a 6 bolt so should be way less common. Any other ideas as to what could make my problem come and go so bad? I'm beyond lost right now. Thanks

 

[DSM1G90]

Tranny has some serious internal wear ... best pull it and get it overhauled.

 

[jakes97gs]

Oh No, thats not what I was hoping to hear!!! I started off so confident it was a hydraulic of clutch issue

 

[AWD Sebring]

First check shifter cables for movement (their casing should be securely bolted down and not move) while someone shifts for you. Then check that tranny shift levers move all the way while shifting. Then check the select lever shoe width. If all ok you probably have an internal tranny problem (like worn shaft bearings that allow the input or intermediate shaft to move due to too much end play, or a worn shifter fork, or even a worn hub/slider).

I agree^^^^^ Also I've had the rubber portion of the shifter cable at the transmission tear, causing it not to go into gear. Just somehting else to pay close attention to.

 

[jakes97gs]

I checked what rallye told me to and everything checked out though. I really dont wanna have to start a tranny project on my winter car

 

[maxharmony537]

shifter bushings! they are these rubber plastic sleeve things that act like bearings on the shifter. they disintegrate after awhile and then there will be a lot of play which will cause the gear to not fully engage. the can be bought from a mitsubishi parts reseller, you could probably macgyver something.

 

[jakes97gs]

Do you mean the bushings at the trans end? because them didn't seem real bad, and if need be I can always do the skateboard bearing mod... otherwise where else would the bushings be? is there one that wears out on the shifter itself?

 

[DSM1G90]

Skateboard mods are quite useful in having more accurate shifting - best check out the play issue with the two connections at the top of the tranny.

Oh, have you changed out the fluid for some new 75w-90 or 80w-90 fluid? I wouldn't waste the money on synth fluids right now until you know what is going on.

Another one is that your tranny is bone dry, or the fluid is super nasty looking. When you do the drain, see if the oil fluid has a silvery sheen to it meaning metal wear of sorts is mixing in with the fluid .... still pointing to an overhaul.

 

[Wurrukatte]

Syncros?

 

[maxharmony537]

Do you mean the bushings at the trans end? because them didn't seem real bad, and if need be I can always do the skateboard bearing mod... otherwise where else would the bushings be? is there one that wears out on the shifter itself?

no, on the actual shifter.. there are two, one on each side of the up-down bar and they are maybe 3-4mm thick and they get old and fall apart and then you will have a lot of side to side and up and down movement in the shifter. when you attempt to shift in 1st or 2nd it will not pull the cable as far as it should since it is hitting the wall of the console and making up for the side to side and up and down play. there is also another bushing inside connecting the shifter to the tranny cables, they get old too, not as robust as the ones in the engine bay.

cheapest OEM ones i found were at: JNZ Tuning