2G 1998 Spyder GST with a 16g turbo what injectors?

[ethans gst]

I have a 1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder GST with a 16g turbo from the Evo 4. What injectors should I get? I've been talking with a tuner he said since I have a bigger turbo I need to get a Evo fuel pump and Evo injectors. he recommend the 550-750cc injectors as I don't wanna do anything else internally.

What are you guys running without hurting your motor and what ones do y'all recommend? Goal is a all wheel drive and around 400 hp. I'd like to push around 20psi on the turbo

 

[steve]

What are you going to be tuning with? To run any different injectors you'll need something like DSMLink or learn how to program the black box ECU. You could run a SAFC but you're unlikely to hit 400HP with it and will be limited to about 650cc injectors max.

Have you read the 2G tuning FAQ's yet?

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

Evo 4 16G is reversed so how do you know you got an Evo 4 turbo? E3 16G was the last DSM version accepted as a normal turbo. While the 4+ can work, your manifold and exhaust system will be reversed. While looking at that you need to consider how you are going to control the fuel system as the stock ecu will not be able to compensate for it

 

[pauleyman]

I have a 1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder GST with a 16g turbo from the Evo 4. What injectors should I get? I've been talking with a tuner he said since I have a bigger turbo I need to get a Evo fuel pump and Evo injectors. he recommend the 550-750cc injectors as I don't wanna do anything else internally.

What are you guys running without hurting your motor and what ones do y'all recommend? Goal is a all wheel drive and around 400 hp. I'd like to push around 20psi on the turbo

You need to understand how things work before you buy parts. You need bigger i sectors because your new turbo flows more air than stock injectors can supply with fuel. Bigger injectors require a tuning solution. Not changing stock internals has nothing to do with what size injector or fuel pump. You buy parts based on how much you need them to flow. You also need to understand the limitations of the stock fuel system other than the fuel pump. Power requirements, return and fuel pressure regulator needs. Yiu could run big injectors and fuel pump on a stock turbo, yiu just wouldn't utilize them. Internals fail when you make more power. Where they fail depends on not only the amount of power but also the quality of tune, type of fuel etc.

I noticed in your profile you list a 98 GST with a gsx wing. GST and GSX have the same wing from 97 to 99. You do have a 4g63 car?

 

[chrysler kid]

I’m running the stock pump and stock injectors at 12 psi on a 16g for about 4 years now

You can’t just plug in new injectors and think the stock computer is going to tune for the added fuel. Even if you put in bigger injectors and a huge fuel pump the stock computer won’t let you run more boost

 

[SixBolt_16G]

You need to understand how things work before you buy parts.

^This.

What are you guys running without hurting your motor and what ones do y'all recommend? Goal is a all wheel drive and around 400 hp. I'd like to push around 20psi on the turbo

When people only mention numbers as goals, it becomes concerning because its hard to give advice with such limited information. Theres just too many factors.

What do you want to do with this car? Street? Track? Cruise? Show?
If youre concerned about "hurting the motor", is this a sole daily driver or Is it okay that it can be down for a while?
How and why did you come to the numbers 400 hp @ 20psi? Have you been in DSMs with those numbers to know what it feels like? Could be more or less than what youd be happy with
Whats your background? How familiar with building, financing and the reliability of doubling horsepower on a platform that is 25+ years old?

Not trying to interrogate, but we would need more information about you and the car to able to give you back substantial answers. Youve said some questionable things so just trying to get some clarity that the things you have in mind are realistic for your goal.

 

[Bigbeanbird]

Evo 4 16G is reversed so how do you know you got an Evo 4 turbo? E3 16G was the last DSM version accepted as a normal turbo. While the 4+ can work, your manifold and exhaust system will be reversed. While looking at that you need to consider how you are going to control the fuel system as the stock ecu will not be able to compensate for it

Was wondering, seems like you should be able to push more than 175 hp, I mean walking up on 20 lbs boost is pretty big.. looks like you should be closer to 350 or better.. don’t get me wrong, it’s very nice and I would be proud to be behind the wheel, but more hp..??
My brother ran A dwarf car in Nevada and he was pushing 110 with an inline Kawasaki motor,(got to drive it on an open track practice and it was FUN..!! Sideways the whole 1/8 mile track.. it had no right front brake at all so when you hit the brakes going into corner it pitched the car sideways so you could get on the gas and slide, thanks bro)..

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

Was wondering, seems like you should be able to push more than 175 hp, I mean walking up on 20 lbs boost is pretty big.. looks like you should be closer to 350 or better.. don’t get me wrong, it’s very nice and I would be proud to be behind the wheel, but more hp..??
My brother ran A dwarf car in Nevada and he was pushing 110 with an inline Kawasaki motor,(got to drive it on an open track practice and it was FUN..!! Sideways the whole 1/8 mile track.. it had no right front brake at all so when you hit the brakes going into corner it pitched the car sideways so you could get on the gas and slide, thanks bro)..

His limits are not being able to tune it safely with the fuel and air. so its going to be limited as of right now. once thats sorted then yes it can be tuned for power reliable power but it wont get to 400. he will need a bigger pump and injectors for starters.

 

[Bigbeanbird]

His limits are not being able to tune it safely with the fuel and air. so its going to be limited as of right now. once thats sorted then yes it can be tuned for power reliable power but it wont get to 400. he will need a bigger pump and injectors for starters.

Why wouldn’t he be able to squeeze on the AF ratio with all that’s installed..??

 

[pauleyman]

Everything is read says OP has a 420a car.
Awaiting comments.

 

[ethans gst]

^This.

When people only mention numbers as goals, it becomes concerning because its hard to give advice with such limited information. Theres just too many factors.

What do you want to do with this car? Street? Track? Cruise? Show?
If youre concerned about "hurting the motor", is this a sole daily driver or Is it okay that it can be down for a while?
How and why did you come to the numbers 400 hp @ 20psi? Have you been in DSMs with those numbers to know what it feels like? Could be more or less than what youd be happy with
Whats your background? How familiar with building, financing and the reliability of doubling horsepower on a platform that is 25+ years old?

Not trying to interrogate, but we would need more information about you and the car to able to give you back substantial answers. Youve said some questionable things so just trying to get some clarity that the things you have in mind are realistic for your goal.

I’m daily driving it and I’ve been searching max hp and psi on a 16 g turbo I’m fairly new but I know a lot abt the 4g63 just wondering what yall have used and reccomend

You need to understand how things work before you buy parts. You need bigger i sectors because your new turbo flows more air than stock injectors can supply with fuel. Bigger injectors require a tuning solution. Not changing stock internals has nothing to do with what size injector or fuel pump. You buy parts based on how much you need them to flow. You also need to understand the limitations of the stock fuel system other than the fuel pump. Power requirements, return and fuel pressure regulator needs. Yiu could run big injectors and fuel pump on a stock turbo, yiu just wouldn't utilize them. Internals fail when you make more power. Where they fail depends on not only the amount of power but also the quality of tune, type of fuel etc.

I noticed in your profile you list a 98 GST with a gsx wing. GST and GSX have the same wing from 97 to 99. You do have a 4g63 car?

Yes mine came with the 3 piece wing idk if they took it off or if it’s a spyder thing also I understand I need a tune the amount of people telling me I can’t just plug it in and it work is insane like people must be brain dead obviously I need a tune yall

Everything is read says OP has a 420a car.
Awaiting comments.

I had a 420a rs spyder I bought another gst I’ve been to car shows and have had work done I know what engine I got yall so funny

What are you going to be tuning with? To run any different injectors you'll need something like DSMLink or learn how to program the black box ECU. You could run a SAFC but you're unlikely to hit 400HP with it and will be limited to about 650cc injectors max.

Have you read the 2G tuning FAQ's yet?

I’m using a guy who specializes in evo and Subaru tuning

I’m running the stock pump and stock injectors at 12 psi on a 16g for about 4 years now

You can’t just plug in new injectors and think the stock computer is going to tune for the added fuel. Even if you put in bigger injectors and a huge fuel pump the stock computer won’t let you run more boost

Yes I understand I’d need to tune

 

[pauleyman]

Yes mine came with the 3 piece wing idk if they took it off or if it’s a spyder thing also I understand I need a tune the amount of people telling me I can’t just plug it in and it work is insane like people must be brain dead obviously I need a tune yall

My mistake. Its a spyder thing. I didnt catch that.
I think the point is you can't even drive it with larger injectors and no way to control them. Post #6 asks alot of pertinent questions. Can you please post some underhood pics. A hp number goal by itself isn't very useful. There is so much more to it. Feed us some info and let's go from there.

 

[99dsmer4g63]

2200cc and 500+lph hellcat fuel pump. 32 psi out of a 16g and you’ll be around 500 whp.

Have fun and good luck

 

[steve]

I had a 420a rs spyder I bought another gst I’ve been to car shows and have had work done I know what engine I got yall so funny

To the best of my knowledge there is no such thing as a 420A RS Spyder. The only NA Spyder was a 2.4L 4G64 based Eclipse Spyder GS, the Eclipse Spyder GST had the turbocharged 2.0L 4G63.

I’m using a guy who specializes in evo and Subaru tuning

My question was not a who but a how question. In order to do anything you need some flavor of programable ECU or piggyback solution. The most common DSM solution is DSMLink.

 

[ethans gst]

My mistake. Its a spyder thing. I didnt catch that.
I think the point is you can't even drive it with larger injectors and no way to control them. Post #6 asks alot of pertinent questions. Can you please post some underhood pics. A hp number goal by itself isn't very useful. There is so much more to it. Feed us some info and let's go from there.

The under the hood is all stock the only thing I have upgraded is the turbo I just got a new power steering pump and alternator the only thing else that is after market is my excel wires and a bov I have 10.2mm excel wires and I honestly haven’t looked what bov I have I want a greedy bov but haven’t been making it a priority

To the best of my knowledge there is no such thing as a 420A RS Spyder. The only NA Spyder was a 2.4L 4G64 based Eclipse Spyder GS, the Eclipse Spyder GST had the turbocharged 2.0L 4G63.


My question was not a who but a how question. In order to do anything you need some flavor of programable ECU or piggyback solution. The most common DSM solution is DSMLink.

I’m not quite sure I haven’t asked him how he tunes his cars it very may well be a dsm link good question

2200cc and 500+lph hellcat fuel pump. 32 psi out of a 16g and you’ll be around 500 whp.

Have fun and good luck

Is that the build you have? Also it’s running on E85?

Was wondering, seems like you should be able to push more than 175 hp, I mean walking up on 20 lbs boost is pretty big.. looks like you should be closer to 350 or better.. don’t get me wrong, it’s very nice and I would be proud to be behind the wheel, but more hp..??
My brother ran A dwarf car in Nevada and he was pushing 110 with an inline Kawasaki motor,(got to drive it on an open track practice and it was FUN..!! Sideways the whole 1/8 mile track.. it had no right front brake at all so when you hit the brakes going into corner it pitched the car sideways so you could get on the gas and slide, thanks bro)..

The car comes 210hp stock I’m learning am from you guy also that sounds sick

 

[pauleyman]

The under the hood is all stock the only thing I have upgraded is the turbo I just got a new power steering pump and alternator the only thing else that is after market is my excel wires and a bov I have 10.2mm excel wires and I honestly haven’t looked what bov I have I want a greedy bov but haven’t been making it a priority

At the risk of sounding like an interrogation, please answer the questions in post 6.

 

[ethans gst]

At the risk of sounding like an interrogation, please answer the questions in post 6.

I responded to post six in post 11 I believe it’s all good to interrogate me I learn a lot from yall

 

[pauleyman]

I’m not quite sure I haven’t asked him how he tunes his cars it very may well be a dsm link good question

Dsmlink is an aftermarket chip you install into a stock ecu (needs to be an eprom ecu) Without changing something you have no way to "tune" anything.

The post about the hellcat pump and 2200 injectors was sarcastic. Generally a turbo that size will not make 400hp. You must answer the question about how the car is to be used before you can figure out what the car needs.

Try this

 

[ethans gst]

Dsmlink is an aftermarket chip you install into a stock ecu (needs to be an eprom ecu) Without changing something you have no way to "tune" anything.

The post about the hellcat pump and 2200 injectors was sarcastic. Generally a turbo that size will not make 400hp. You must answer the question about how the car is to be used before you can figure out what the car needs.

Try this

I want a fast and reliable daily that’s why I’m shooting for a normal 350-400 Hp which from what I’ve seen is possible but if I had to lose some hp for readability I definitely would

 

[chrysler kid]

I want a fast and reliable daily that’s why I’m shooting for a normal 350-400 Hp which from what I’ve seen is possible but if I had to lose some hp for readability I definitely would

I’ll give you as detailed of a response as I can

The 1998 GST should have a black box ECU which is tunable and flashable without modification. You will need a tactrix cable plug with harness usually online for around $120

You would need to download ecuflash and then download the ceddy mods files for 2nd gen eclipse

You can then change the computer calibration for injectors, typically it will say to adjust 550c injectors to 535 (again this is from my brains memory files years ago so see the ceddy mods tuning calibrations threads for exact calibrations)

You then need to have data logging software to interact with a wide band AFR sensor. They use evoscan through the tactrix cable for data logging AFR ratios

As far as the limits of a 16g on stock injectors; the mass air flow sensor will stop fuel flow when it senses the turbo sucking in more air than the ECU will set for the max limit. On second gen cars with a 16g this is typically 13 psi. Even if you slapped bigger injectors or a big fuel pump the stock ECU calibration is “dumb” and will not adjust any aspects of the air fuel ratio past its factory calibrations done at the mass air flow sensor. The mass air flow sensor controls all parameters and needs to be re adjusted for tuning past stock max airflow levels

What is a safe limit for stock 450cc injectors and a 16g? : first gen eclipses and turbo talons would let airflow limits go to 18 to 19 psi with a 16g before the ECU determined air flow was too much for its calibration. If you search wayy back in the day guys were doing this on nearly stock cars and getting good numbers on the stock fuel system with maybe a bigger fuel pump just to make sure the factory one wasn’t going to max out. Now that being said the 2nd gen ECU airflow calibrations were set much lower for the stock ECU and if you try to do 15psi the car’s computer will hit fuel cut to prevent overboosting

So long story short, if you were to change the ECU parameter for air flow on stock injectors and you had a wideband to monitor AFR, you could maybe see 250 whp on stock fuel system

There’s really no reason to go with 550 injectors anymore, they use to be really cheap and came stock in Mazda rx7’s but now cost as much as a set of 750 injectors.

For background information a friends local build with 750 injectors and a 250 pump was able to hit 320whp at 25 psi with an Evo 3 16g tuned locally using the stock black box ECU. That would be probably the max limit for a stock setup before you start talking about new cams and e85

So if you are trying to hit more than 300whp on a 16g it’s going to take more steps than just the fuel system and tune. And if we are talking about horse power then we are also talking about burning through a factory clutch.

I’ve been running a 16g turbo at 13 psi for about 5 years on my daily driver build with no issues. To me going for 400whp seems redundant, it’s not going to be fast enough to beat new mustangs and Camaros and you’re just going to be spinning the tires until third gear. So at that point what are you really doing with 400whp? I’d set my goals lower and enjoy being mildly modified with 300whp and enjoying the driving experience than hitting a dyno milestone for a build.

 

[pauleyman]

I want a fast and reliable daily that’s why I’m shooting for a normal 350-400 Hp which from what I’ve seen is possible but if I had to lose some hp for readability I definitely would

Reliability is typically a function of maintenance. When you approach the limit of the stock parts you will know it. That is frequently a function of the tune quality also. This is why we talk about what the car is to do before we talk about parts. CAN you run higher HP numbers on certain parts? Likely yes but you do so by running a more aggressive tune and the risk of breaking things. Quality of fuel you run is important also. 91? 93? E85? Race gas only? Again these questions are answered by what is the cars purpose. Highly unlikely you will run race gas daily. If you happen to be wealthy I've seen Ferrari guys who exclusively run 100 octane unleaded. Not exactly race gas but far from 91 octane.
Is this making any sense? Please read the project post.