what size injectors to use with evo3 16g?

[gsxstac]

ok heres the mod list on the car :

98 tsi awd, 3" turbo back, injen intake, spearco fmic with short piping, walbro hp 255 pump, evo3 16g, tial 38mm gate, 6 bolt with wiseco 9:1/eagle rods, greddy bov, act 2100, fidanza

car currently has safc2, but will have dsmlink in a week or 2. only thing holding it back is regulator and stock injectors so we're keeping the car at 14 psi until we at least get injectors. I'll get the regulator after the injectors

this car must be a nice daily low throttle driven car, it eventually will be dyno'd and I'd like to see it make impressive number but for street use it will be at roughly 18 psi, maybe 20 if we can keep the knock down.

question is will 550's cut it? 580's ? will I max those out on the car?? I dont think I will and I wanted to use 550's because teh safc2 can handle those and not much bigger without fishy idle usually, but now the car will have dsmlink so I was thinking about going to maybe 650's just to be safe. any opinions always helpful

 

[boostedinaz]

Some say you will be ok with 550's but I would go with 650's. The 550's at 20 psi will likely be at a high duty cycle and thats no fun. The 660's will be a bit harder to control, but no problem with DSMlink.

Michael

 

[Jetblack]

I have the same turbo and DSMLink also running 660's. I'd go with these because I've never gone past 70% duty cycle so it's real safe. I also have a bolt on afpr and gauge. I'd recommend you getting that also so you know exactly what your fp is.

 

[boostedinaz]

I have the same turbo and DSMLink also running 660's. I'd go with these because I've never gone past 70% duty cycle so it's real safe. I also have a bolt on afpr and gauge. I'd recommend you getting that also so you know exactly what your fp is.

I love smart people.

Michael

 

[sweet97]

I am using 550's and Buschur said I will be ok with 93+ octane and 17 PSI. Larger injectors will allow you to go with a larger turbo when you tire of the EVO!!

 

[eltracer]

Are 650cc or 660cc really that hard to tune with the safc? kind of scareing for the future.

 

[gsxstac]

well this is my girlfriends car so it wont be seeing a larger turbo, I personally have a 60-1 and 880's. I just dont want her car maxing out the duty cycle if we ever take it up to 25 psi on c16. but then again with race gas you dont need huge injectors so who knows

 

[LEKS]

There is a site that gives you the exact setup for SAFC with 660's I will have to find it!

 

[ldstang50]

660s is definetly a safer option. since it will be a daily driver, i'd go with the 660s. plus like you said you'll have a dsm link in two weeks so you'll be able to tune accordingly. with the larger injectors you'll be able to turn up the boost if and when this car gets taken to the track. not that you wouldn't be able to with the 550's, but the 660's willl give you 'play' room

 

[kpt4321]

There is a site that gives you the exact setup for SAFC with 660's I will have to find it!

Unles it's a site that goes out for a tuning run in your car, it's useless.

 

[boostedinaz]

Unles it's a site that goes out for a tuning run in your car, it's useless.

He is right. They actually only give you a baseline for those injectors. From there you still have tune it yourself. There is also a thread on here that other members give there personal settings. That may give you a baseline also, but your car is different and you still need to tune for your conditions.

Michael

 

[GPTourer]

Are 650cc or 660cc really that hard to tune with the safc? kind of scareing for the future.

I have Denso 660's and a SAFC-2. My lowest "adjustment" is -45, so I would say that I've just about maxed it out. People say 680s would work, but I have no plans of going any bigger and am glad that I have a little headroom left.

 

[rarson]

I would go with 650's. Actually, they're on sale right now for $320, which is a pretty good deal. Fuel Injector Clinic makes some high quality injectors and there are a lot of people on the DSMLink forums using them, so you've got more to reference from when it comes time to setup the injectors with DSMLink.

For a point of reference also, at 20 psi on a small 16g I saw up to 34.7 lbs/min airflow and IDC of 91%. With the stock injectors at 18 psi I saw IDC of 115%. I expected the 550's to drop the duty cycle a little more but seeing as I'm pretty close to "safely" maxing out 550's (we'll see what IDC I get next time I get a chance to put some C16 in), and seeing as how some people have seen 40+ lbs/min off the EVOIII, I'd definitely say 650's to be safe. In fact, I think Josh Wingell is pretty close to maxing out 650's with his EVOIII.

 

[eltracer]

So evo3 will max out 660's pretty quick? Will 680 be alot harder to tune with a safc then 660's?

 

[boostedinaz]

So evo3 will max out 660's pretty quick? Will 680 be alot harder to tune with a safc then 660's?

No it will not.

They are so close together that it wont matter. Plus most 680's actaully flow around 650 anyway, so I wouldnt worry about it.

Michael

 

[1fast97gsx]

I have 780s on an safc and my lowest setting is -48. I say get some 650s and not have to worry again when you get rid of that little turbo down the road.

 

[sweet97]

I got my EVO parts from Bushur today. I will be running 550's and 17 PSI of boost with buschurs OK as long as I use 93+ octane. When I upgrade the turbo I will have to go with 660's or higher. What turbo will spool quickly but flow 600+ CFM at 15 PSI? I am not familiar with the hybrid turbo's that are available. Thanks, Mark

 

[blue1]

18G 620cfm or 20G 680cfm!

 

[rarson]

Not sure on the CFM, but the AGP SS-44 will flow 44 lbs/min, and it's ball bearing so it'll spool pretty fast too.

 

[sweet97]

I've been lookin at some Garrett hybrids I believe. One that I think is popular around here is a 50 trim with a T3 (T31) turbine wheel. The write-up on it says it is "capable" of producing 450HP. I believe Ramchargers has it for $995. but I saw a nearly identical turbo for $895. but I have tried every place I Thought I've been but can't find it. Opinions? Help on finding the seller at $895. Buschur has a Hybrid that he claims to be the quickest spooling turbo capable of making 500HP. More opinions!?? What size injectors would these 450 to 50HP turbo's require? Also what is the relationship etween CFM and lbs./minute?THanks all, Mark

 

[blcknspo0ln]

I dont know if it was mentioned or commented on, but how difficult will it be to tune 660's with just an SAFC/logger? i'm gearing up for injectors soon and no, I dont plan on going DSMLINK

 

[sweet97]

I had posted a question on buschur racing's site asking about injectors for the EVO III turbo I was planning and one fellow replied about some difficulties he had tuning with the safc & 660's. I wil try to find it and hook you up. MArk

 

[Spyke169]

There is a site that gives you the exact setup for SAFC with 660's I will have to find it!

http://racingknowledge.org/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1011

That gives you some pointers as far as tuning with different size injectors, but by no means is it to be taken as exact settings. If you are going to tune do it right and invest in a datalogger. One of the best investments you can make for your car

 

[siceclipse]

Just got thru talking with Dan "the man", from Pruven. He said the same things, 550 will make it struggle at really high boost but the 660 are really hard to tune with the SAFC, and will make the car go into an oposite limp mode where the car will advance its timing too much and detonate.
This winter i will be going with an Evo3, SBR cast manifold, Hahn FMIC and other small supporting mods. Dan said that with what i have and the list i made of what i want, we can make 350 on the dyno. I dont know about you guys but at 21 years old i have no problem mopping the streets with low end Ferraris.

 

[sweet97]

I had 550's with mine and maxedthem out. Go wth 660's and the GM MAF-Translator and should you upgrade you will have a good injector to work with. mark