2G 1997 ecu 6 bolt swap question

[goldeninja20]

I recently just finished my 6 bolt swap. The previous owner told me he needed to purchase dsmlink because he was having a problem with the car dying while driving, even though he would get a good idle. I know i am unable to set my base timing with a 1997 ecu because the pin slot is empty. I just have the cas adjusted to the middle, i seem to get a good idle. When i go out to drive it, the car seems as though it wants to die at stops. No boost leaks, this is the exact problem that the previous owner had described, before he had blown a piston out the oil pan. (Then i purchased). No matter how much i play with my base timing it still will want to die. Is this related to the 1997 ecu or could it be the car is sensing some sort of knock and pulling timing?

 

[NHerron]

Not sure where you have it now, but make sure the timing is set to AROUND 5* with everything warmed up.

Has the BISS screw ever been touched?

 

[goldeninja20]

There is no way for me to adjust timing without dsmlink. I cannot ground the timing light on the pin you are supposed to because the 97 ecu doesnt have that pin.

 

[NHerron]

A 6 bolt in a 2G requires the use of a 1G CAS, therefore is now physically adjustable. Just hook up the timing light and turn the CAS until you have adjusted the CAS as close to 5* on the cover as possible.

Like this link, (towards bottom)

RRE Instructions

And a timing light uses battery voltage to make the device work, like a horn or a radio. The third connection, which hooks to the No. 1 spark plug wire, uses that as a signal to flash the light beam on and off to show you when the spark is firing in relation to crankshaft position.

 

[goldeninja20]

I was told your advance will bounce all over the place unless you ground it will dsmlink or a certin pin on the ecu

 

[NHerron]

Correct. The timing will jump roughly +/- 5*. It is a bit trying I'll admit, but you need to get your readings to average to 5*. In other words, timing might hit 10*, then hits 0*. The middle (mean) value is 5. That's just theory, as I doubt it will pan out exactly, so that's why I had to get as close to 5* instead.

Ideally, you would use a logger to see where the ECU WANTS timing to be, so it can be more closely matched. For instance, timing will be higher (maybe 7* as opposed to 5*) due to the elevation. Or the weather.

 

[goldeninja20]

Correct. The timing will jump roughly +/- 5*. It is a bit trying I'll admit, but you need to get your readings to average to 5*. In other words, timing might hit 10*, then hits 0*. The middle (mean) value is 5. That's just theory, as I doubt it will pan out exactly, so that's why I had to get as close to 5* instead.

Ideally, you would use a logger to see where the ECU WANTS timing to be, so it can be more closely matched. For instance, timing will be higher (maybe 7* as opposed to 5*) due to the elevation. Or the weather.

so you think i shouldnt have a problem just grounding on.the battery terminal. You say it will jump but it should still average out to about 5 degrees. I will.be getting a timing light soon and trying.it out since now i know there is a possibility it may work.

 

[NHerron]

The timing light has nothing to do with grounding anything. The timing light has three connections. Two of them are power and ground for the timing light to work (like a cell phone charger needs a power source). And a third connection clamps over the No. 1 spark plug wire to tell the timing light when to flash. The flashing is representing when the spark plug is firing, relative to where the crankshaft is positioned. It's just another tool to monitor engine operation.

The reason for the grounding issue is because the ECU commands spark to happen what seems to be, randomly. (roughly +/- 5*) Like I mentioned, this is because of different load conditions like weather, elevation and other things. To keep the spark event from 'randomly' jumping around, is to 'ground' (jump this wire to the chassis or -12V on battery) a specific wire on vehicles equipped with adjustable ignition. This grounding action tells the ECU to stop playing around with the spark event and keep it at a solid 5*, so someone can easily set the ignition timing.

95-99 DSM's are fixed ignition systems, non-adjustable cam/crank sensors. So there's no reason for the manufacturer to keep this grounding feature, therefore they remove it. I'm not sure why they kept it on the 95/96 models though.


I don't know if you already knew all that stuff but I suppose it would also help someone in the future

I would advise some kind of logger, DSMlink, MUT-II tool in the future though, if you plan on making more power. At that point you can double check the timing. But yes, you will be fine setting it as close to 5* as possible

 

[1G9S9T7]

Is your bov vented? That causes it to die at stops if it's not done right. Also mine is a 97 and you can set base timing without grounding but it won't be dead on accurate. When set at 5* while grounded, it will fluctuate between 6* and 11* btdc while ungrounded. If you get it fluctuating in that range, it should be good. Ideally you probably wanna reset it when you have a means of grounding timing. I researched it and had a post asking about it. I don't have the funds to get dsmlink yet so I had to find another working way. Hope this helps.

 

[goldeninja20]

The timing light has nothing to do with grounding anything. The timing light has three connections. Two of them are power and ground for the timing light to work (like a cell phone charger needs a power source). And a third connection clamps over the No. 1 spark plug wire to tell the timing light when to flash. The flashing is representing when the spark plug is firing, relative to where the crankshaft is positioned. It's just another tool to monitor engine operation.

The reason for the grounding issue is because the ECU commands spark to happen what seems to be, randomly. (roughly +/- 5*) Like I mentioned, this is because of different load conditions like weather, elevation and other things. To keep the spark event from 'randomly' jumping around, is to 'ground' (jump this wire to the chassis or -12V on battery) a specific wire on vehicles equipped with adjustable ignition. This grounding action tells the ECU to stop playing around with the spark event and keep it at a solid 5*, so someone can easily set the ignition timing.

95-99 DSM's are fixed ignition systems, non-adjustable cam/crank sensors. So there's no reason for the manufacturer to keep this grounding feature, therefore they remove it. I'm not sure why they kept it on the 95/96 models though.


I don't know if you already knew all that stuff but I suppose it would also help someone in the future

I would advise some kind of logger, DSMlink, MUT-II tool in the future though, if you plan on making more power. At that point you can double check the timing. But yes, you will be fine setting it as close to 5* as possible

That is very helpful. i actually do understand why grounding is "needed". i will giv it a shot and my bov isnt vented.

 

[dsmlover94]

make sure not to have the ground cables on paint but straight up metal. check for vaccum leaks with a cigar through one of the hoses

 

[NHerron]

No problem, good luck with the car