2G 1996 Eclipse GST ATX Idle problem

[Adihalimi1]

Hi, my name is Adi I'm new here and I'm looking for some help. I have a 2G Eclipse GST auto that's having idleing issues when I put it in reverse or drive and also seems to have a missfire in cylinder 1 that is not showing any codes on my code reader.

I've replaced the spark plugs, spark plug wires, idle air control valve, cleaned the throttle body and had the fuel injectors cleaned with replaced baskets/filters and o-rings on them, flow checked and fixed but I still have the same issue. The car idles rough and when I put in in reverse or drive if I don't keep the RPM's up it wants to die and dies 80% of the time. This only happens when it idles in gear, when I drive and keep the RPM's up everything in good no problems runs as it should.

PLEASE HELP

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[steve]

Your picture must have been before you changed the spark plug wires.

The ECU and TCU depend on getting the idle position signal from the TPS to know to manage the engine idle and keep it from dieing under load. The idle system has several other parts, the BISS on the top of the TB, the IAC (which you changed), the drivers for the IAC in the ECU, and the FIAV (Fast Idle Air Valve) which increases the idle air when the engine is cold.

I'm not sure how with a code reader one might check to see if the ECU is seeing the IPS pin switch. Perhaps someone here can enlighten both of us on that?

 

[Adihalimi1]

I did play around withe the BISS but its not helping when its on gear still dies unless i keep rpm's up, today i unplugged the TPS/ throttle position sensor and started it up and the car runs the same idles rough and on gear dies... could it be a faulty sensor? you can see its unplugged in this picture. Also where is the location of the FIAV?? i dont seem to find it

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[steve]

The FIAV is on the bottom of the throttle body. The IAC bolts to part of the casting.

Define idles rough? If the engine isn't running correctly it's hard for the IAC to work. Speaking of what was wrong with the old IAC, if any of it's coils shorted that also kills the driver IC's in the ECU.

 

[chrysler kid]

the throttle position sensor is vital for the auto trans shifting, do not adjust it, make sure it is fully plugged in. the 2g cars do not have an ips switch

can you drive the car at all, it should eventually have a check engine light for idle speed lower than expected, and should eventually idle better

the idle air control valve is also on the bottom of the throttle body, you can start by removing that and cleaning the sensor and the inside of where it sits on the throttle body

have you checked transmission fluid levels to confirm it is not low on fluid? my old auto car would have issues when cold with the fluid low, it would take a minute or two of idling in neutral for the transmission fluid pump to build good pressure and then the car would drive properly.

the transmission control modules do occasionally have issues on these cars, but usually its with shoftong gears. if the fluid level is low it can cause idle issues

 

[Adihalimi1]

Thank you for your replies.
I had the car to a shop when I bought it. They scanned it and came to a conclusion it was IAC and misfire on cylinder 1 so I changed the IAC, spark plugs, sparks plug wires but the problem didn't get fixed after replacing these parts. I don't know if any of IAC coils were shorted or not, I still have the old part though is there a way to test it?

The car runs fine once I put my foot on the gas just slightly to keep the RPMs up to 1500 or 2000 rpms when its in gear but not moving "ideling" as soon as I let go of the brake and give it gas to move forward the car runs fine. I drove it for maybe 2hrs and still same problem when it idles and no check engine popping up and no codes popping up in my scanner also.

For example when I stop at a red light, I keep my foot on the break pedal and gas pedal at the same time to keep the RPMs up so it doesn't die. Light turns green I let go of the brake pedal and push on the gas pedal to move forward everything works fine no jerking of the engine no surges basically no problems.

I just checked again transmission fluid and its at normal levels also the transmission switches gears fine when I'm driving.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Is the fuel filter new? I didn't see it on your list of things done.

 

[steve]

I don't know if any of IAC coils were shorted or not, I still have the old part though is there a way to test it?

If you have a Multimeter (If not, now is a good time to buy one) you measure the resistance of each of the four coils inside.

The connector has 6 pins arranged as 2 rows of 3. The center pin of each row is the common so you measure pin 1 to pin 2 and pin 2 to pin 3 then the same for the next row, pin 4 to 5 and 5 to 6 noting each measurement. You should see about 28-34 ohms resistance across each coil. (so make sure your meter is on it's lowest resistance scale if it has one.)

If you read 0 or less than 10 ohms that coil is shorted and the ECU needs to be tested. If you don't read anything (same as when the meters leads aren't touching) that coil is open, likely didn't harm the ECU but the IAC is bad.

Still not sure what you mean by a rough idle. Is it smooth and even when your in Park or Neutral?

 

[Adihalimi1]

No fuel filter is not new i was literally thinking of replacing it today or tomorrow if i can find one near me somewhere.

I will be getting a multi meter by the end of the day today ill test it out then.

No its not smooth On park or neutral, it doesnt die but still you can tell its having a hard time, so i unscrewed the BISS screw a little bit and it got better i got the rpms up to 750, when thr fan turns on the rpms get up to almost 1200 on its own so on neutral or park the rpms fluctuate it mostly stays at 750rpms but sometimes goes up to 1200rpms or goes down to 500rpms.

Ill try and post a video of it as soon as i find out how

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[steve]

Lovely 2G belt slipping. Doesn't sound very even at idle. Have you checked the compression?
What did you gap the new plugs to when you changed them?

 

[Adihalimi1]

Lovely 2G belt slipping. Doesn't sound very even at idle. Have you checked the compression?
What did you gap the new plugs to when you changed them?

What does it mean when the belt is slipping and doesnt sound even?
No i have not checked for compression and i did not gap the plugs at all i installed them as they were from the box.

If you have a Multimeter (If not, now is a good time to buy one) you measure the resistance of each of the four coils inside.

The connector has 6 pins arranged as 2 rows of 3. The center pin of each row is the common so you measure pin 1 to pin 2 and pin 2 to pin 3 then the same for the next row, pin 4 to 5 and 5 to 6 noting each measurement. You should see about 28-34 ohms resistance across each coil. (so make sure your meter is on it's lowest resistance scale if it has one.)

If you read 0 or less than 10 ohms that coil is shorted and the ECU needs to be tested. If you don't read anything (same as when the meters leads aren't touching) that coil is open, likely didn't harm the ECU but the IAC is bad.

Still not sure what you mean by a rough idle. Is it smooth and even when your in Park or Neutral?

I just did the test with a multimeter on the IAC and im getting 28.5 ohms resistance on all of the pins i did the test as you described it in your comment.

 

[steve]

What does it mean when the belt is slipping and doesnt sound even?
No i have not checked for compression and i did not gap the plugs at all i installed them as they were from the box.


I just did the test with a multimeter on the IAC and im getting 28.5 ohms resistance on all of the pins i did the test as you described it in your comment.

Many 2Gs for various reasons have the accessory belt squeal from it slipping on startup and sometimes when turning. Sometimes it's due to belt tightness, others the cleanliness of the pulleys and belt, yet others from misalignment of the pulleys. 1Gs don't seem to have this as much.

Your idle sounds like some cylinders are stronger than others and so there is a rhythmic pulsing rather than an even beat. The sound is even stronger when you put it into gear as it starts to die. That's why I asked about the compression, cause that's one indicator of cylinder health. Your comment about smelling gas suggests that it's not burning evenly.

Anyway, since all the coils are good you can try seeing if it rehomes correctly when you turn the ignition on. Unplug the one in the car and connect the old one loose. Have someone turn the ignition on and off while you watch to see if the pintle moves. It should step out and then in when you turn the ECU on each time. If it just buzzes but doesn't move either could be bad and you might want to check the new one to see what it does.

i unscrewed the BISS screw a little bit and it got better i got the rpms up to 750, when thr fan turns on the rpms get up to almost 1200 on its own so on neutral or park the rpms fluctuate it mostly stays at 750rpms but sometimes goes up to 1200rpms or goes down to 500rpms.

Missed this earlier it is idling up from electrical load, I wonder if the ECU not seeing the park/neutral switch telling it the trans is in gear. And I'm still wondering if the ECU is seeing the IPS. (There is an IPS but it's inside the 2G TPS and it's how you adjust a 2G TPS.)

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

This is a 1G TB taken off and flipped upside down, showing the location of the Fast Idle Air Valve (FIAV).

This is great video to reference when checking the Idle Speed Controller (ISC), showing the resistance tests:

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And this one shows the visual inspection:

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This is also a great resource on setting idle and fixing associated problems. It is more geared towards having ECMLink, but the principles are the same even if you just have the stock ECU. https://www.ecmtuning.com/wiki/idlesurge

 

[Adihalimi1]

This is a 1G TB taken off and flipped upside down, showing the location of the Fast Idle Air Valve (FIAV).

This is great video to reference when checking the Idle Speed Controller (ISC), showing the resistance tests:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

And this one shows the visual inspection:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

This is also a great resource on setting idle and fixing associated problems. It is more geared towards having ECMLink, but the principles are the same even if you just have the stock ECU. https://www.ecmtuning.com/wiki/idlesurge

Thank you for your tips i have replaced the IAC already and i still have the same issue

 

[chrysler kid]

to me it sounds like a transmission issue.


if you kick it in to neutral while sitting at a stop light does the car idle fine, or does it still want to die

have you done a boost leak test yet?

 

[Adihalimi1]

to me it sounds like a transmission issue.


if you kick it in to neutral while sitting at a stop light does the car idle fine, or does it still want to die

have you done a boost leak test yet?

No it doesn't die after kicking it into neutral and or park. The rpms go right up if i do put into neutral that's one of the ways i keep the car running so it doesn't stall on me.

I have not done a boost leak test but after you mentioning i dug around the turbo to see what was going on, remember I'm a noob when it comes to cars, but just looking around i found a tube that goes to a solenoid valve "that's what i think it is" from the turbo but the other tube that goes out of the solenoid valve is not connected to anything and I can't seem to find where it connect to.

I made a video of it if anyone knows where it goes please let me know thank you

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[explicitgst]

You should checkout this thread for where to connect that vacuum line.

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/vacuum-lines-egr-blockoff.503806/

 

[steve]

I have not done a boost leak test but after you mentioning i dug around the turbo to see what was going on, remember I'm a noob when it comes to cars, but just looking around i found a tube that goes to a solenoid valve "that's what i think it is" from the turbo but the other tube that goes out of the solenoid valve is not connected to anything and I can't seem to find where it connect to.

That looks like the Boost Control Solenoid (Waste Gate Control Solenoid) and are you sure you didn't disconnect the one line from the MAF tube when you removed it to dig around there? I believe that like attaches to a nipple on the MAF snorkel after the MAF so that the air released by the BCS is kept in the intake piping since it's been measured by the MAF once already.

 

[Adihalimi1]

That looks like the Boost Control Solenoid (Waste Gate Control Solenoid) and are you sure you didn't disconnect the one line from the MAF tube when you removed it to dig around there? I believe that like attaches to a nipple on the MAF snorkel after the MAF so that the air released by the BCS is kept in the intake piping since it's been measured by the MAF once already.

Thank you both i did find where that tube goes thanks to you guys and it goes right under the MAF tube, it doesnt look like i disconnected it because it missing the nipple and the clamp for the tube to stay connected to the nipple it looks like it was disconnected for a while now, it also looks like i need to find a nipple and a clamp for it to be connected back to it ill report back once i get it back together and see if theres any changes to the car thank you.

In the mean time what is this canister for???in this picture and why doesnt my 1996 elcipse gst have it???

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[explicitgst]

The one you're pointing to is the CLUTCH master (reservoir).
The one beside it and larger is the BRAKE master (reservoir).
DOT 3 or DOT 4 oil only for either.

 

[bo0st2]

Thank you both i did find where that tube goes thanks to you guys and it goes right under the MAF tube, it doesnt look like i disconnected it because it missing the nipple and the clamp for the tube to stay connected to the nipple it looks like it was disconnected for a while now, it also looks like i need to find a nipple and a clamp for it to be connected back to it ill report back once i get it back together and see if theres any changes to the car thank you.

In the mean time what is this canister for???in this picture and why doesnt my 1996 elcipse gst have it???

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is your other car an automatic?

 

[steve]

is your other car an automatic?

This one (see post #1) is and that's why he doesn't have a CLUTCH reservoir in it.

 

[Adihalimi1]

So i plugged the turbo vaccum tube to the MAF tube and now i have boost the car runs way better and is way faster, and less shaking of the engine, but still dies when ideling in drive or reverse but it takes a lot longer to die now, i noticed my brakes were kind of hard they are not working as they should i noticed this issue before also, can the brakes go hard because of a vaccum leak???

Also i can hear my sparkplugs sparking fast when in park or neutral not all the time but from time to time here is a video of it if you guys can hear it, if you have an idea why they would spark so fast please let me know.

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You can hear the sparkplugs sparking as soon as the fan turns on.

 

[chrysler kid]

are you sure the ticking is the plug wires? is it possible they are bad, we typically reccomend NGK plug wires for these cars. if the plug wires are "arching out" where you can hear them they may be causing the idle issue under load. try to swap them out for a different set. there is also suppose to be a ground cable hooked to the intake manifold behind the throttle cable on top of the intake manifold, check to make sure that ground cable is on the manifold and the coils arent overloading the ground

should look something like this. is cant remember but on my auto dsm i think it can also be bolted on the side of the intake manifold next to the vacuum nipple above and to the right of the coil

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[explicitgst]

Just another thought....have you opened the ecu to see if the ISC drivers or the capacitors are okay?

http://www.dsmlink.com/wiki/idlesurge