14s n/t

[MightyMouse5310]

Alright, I've been wanting to turbo this car for I don't know how long, but recently I'm thinking about just making it as fast as possible without messing with the insides of the engine and seeing if I can make the high fourteens happen. I've ran the quarter in 15.688at 87 mph, but according to the dyno I just did my car only makes 116 hp and 114 ft/lb torque. I just put a bigger tb on it and am getting a safc II for it in the next couple of months. with the new tb the car seems spryer from 4800 to redline, but the gear shift from 2nd to third drops rpms to 4500 and that's where I lose a lot of ground. any ideas on how to fix the gear problem or predictions as to if I might make the 14 secs with these last attempts at it?

 

[cs82685]

predictions as to if I might make the 14 secs with these last attempts at it?

IDK, maybe with slicks and good driving? I believe there's only one person on here that has made 14's n/t and he's got a LOT of mods, built bottom end high compression pistons, I think he made 166whp.

 

[BigRand]

Yeah bullet dsm put a lot of time, effort and CASH, into getting his NT down th 14.5's, Without touching the internals or the head of the car, I'd say its a negative on hitting that high 14 w/ just bolt ons.

Gutting the car and slicks would get you closer though.

 

[cs82685]

I'd say the easiest way without going turbo is to throw nitrous into the mix, but personally I wouldn't use it unless I had money for a rebuild.

 

[bullettdsm]

I'd say your biggest problem is going to be tuning. With bolt ons I would go 55 tb (don't forget to match port), UDP (I like the AFX unit from Howell), I would go 2.5 " exhaust and cam gears.

Ok, where to start. First off, congrats on the 1/4 time. That tells me that you know how to drive. Curious what your launch time is. Yeah, slicks can help but you may not have the power to utilize them properly. It may launch well for you but it may have too much drag in the top end. Only experimenting will tell you.

Now let's look at your suspension set-up. Rear should be a little higher than the front. I go with stock height rear and AGX's. Set the rear suspension up to as hard as it will go. Front should be lowered and as soft as it will go. For rear tires, get the skinniest tires you can put on there and then fill them up to about 45 lbs. What you are trying to do is limit your contact patch to as small as possible so that you will have as little friction as possible. Fronts slicks (if you want to go slicks) with the lightest rim possible (get rid of as much rotating mass/weight as you can). Air pressure will be determined by tire choice, track conditions and power range of your car. You'll want good alignment. If you want, you can put the camber out a couple of degrees in the fronts to allow for your launch.

Now gut the crap out of your car (AC and power steering are a must to go. They are part of the rotating weight. The rest of the reduction is up to you). Don't forget a smaller battery. I just put in an integra battery and it saved me 5.5 pounds.

Now back to the engine. You realize that as you do these mods you will be hurting your bottom end (by bottom end I mean your lower RPM's) to gain some top end. This is where it get's tricky. Unless you use a standalone system like MSnS (I use the term standalone a little loosely on that. It will depend on your level of MSnS), the stock ECU will not allow you a lot of power up top. That's the rub. You need to be able to at least add some timing because the stock just dogs out (as you have seen). You will also be able to get a little "overlap" using the cam gears. Try starting at 4 degrees on the intake side and work from there. Also, the Safc II will help very little. It can allow you to lean out some, but the gains are maybe a couple of few ponies (I will find out next time on the dyno what I can gain from the safc).

Can you make it into the 14's from there? IDK. Certainly your level of gutting will be important. I say feel free to give it a shot. That way you'll know where you stand.

Just my .02 cents

MB

 

[MightyMouse5310]

the throttle body I just put on it is 60mm, and I really wanted to rebuild the head and maybe get a little more powerful cams and some cam gears, but I just haven't the money at this time. (rebuilt the bottom end in stock fassion at 136000 miles, head currently has 154000 miles on it). Will cam gears make that much of a difference without better cams, or should I get better cams when I do the rebuild then put cam gears on it? With the way the car is now, the cpu is sending so much fuel at wot it's down right dumb. I launch at the track from around five grand...the first time I tried this the car jumped so hard I pulled it out of first gear. I've done the skateboard barrings in the linkage trick so it helps shifts a little. I'm not trying for anything more than right at high 14s, that'll make me happy cause I still want to retain a daily driver with amenities so I can get something awd in a year when I grad college to make into a machine. I just want people to underestimate the car so I can see their jaws drop. Thanks for the advice. I'll let you know when I get money, which should be in the next couple of weeks or mid next month, so we can discuss more. by any chance, would a neon tranny help the gear exchange from 2nd to 3rd put the engine in more of the power band?

 

[bullettdsm]

On the cam gear question; they definitely did make a difference on my butt dyno with stock cams, BUT I had the AF/X ECU that allowed me to go up to 8500 with timing increases. Thus allowing me to make better use of the overlap. I also ran a 60 mm (but mine is the Jeep tb). I like it but many find it too big because of the loss of power down low. Are you popping your head off when you do cams? If so there is work that will help you there. Add some comp by shaving some extra off the head. Port and polish etc.

Neon tranny will make it worse. The turbo guys use this for the taller gearing. Will not help you (and I know what you mean about the 2 to 3 transition. I think that Mitsu did the 1 and 2 so the car would feel "peppier" but then you hit 3 and dog out. It's not so noticeable in my car due to what I have done to it but I can still feel it).

MB

 

[MightyMouse5310]

if I do put the cam gears on there I will definitely rebuild the 155k mile head. I wanted to do a new cam set and lifters and the like from howell racing I believe it was, but they stopped selling the sets for the car. I want to port and polish the intake or possibly get a aftermarket one, but I don't know of any aftermarket ones that aren't for forced induction. if you know of somewhere that still sells the cams, let me know. I think they were crane cams with the last of the part number being a 10.. they were the ones that can be used for n/a or nitrous. don't remember the specs.

 

[Talon ESI-T]

For the record, you can run 14.6 with a cold air intake only. Eric Metcalf is a friend of mine and is also on 2gnt. He just ran a 14.6 on the 21st at great lakes dragway. The only thing has has is a underdrive pulley and short ram cold air intake. The rest of the car is stock, trust me I know, i have worked on it a few times.

Terry

Edit 16.4 not 14.6 my mistake.

 

[dr1665]

Eric Metcalf . . . just ran a 14.6 on the 21st at great lakes dragway.

Just talked to Eric on aim. He apologizes for the typo in the email he sent you, Terry. He ran 16.6.

(I about soiled me armor!)

 

[Talon ESI-T]

Yeah thats him. we need to get his slip hosted.

Terry

Edit: sorry guys just looked up the email from Eric....it was 16.4. sorry got that backwards.

 

[ericmetcalf11]

Before this gets out of hand, Terry is correct on my mods but I ran a 16.4 not a 14.6. May have been some miscommunication. My best to date on it is 16.1 which isn't much to really brag about.

 

[dr1665]

My best to date on it is 16.1 which isn't much to really brag about.

Hey man. You're out there running your car, which is more than some of us can say. My car has never been any closer to the track than the parking lot.

 

[MightyMouse5310]

with only a header, exhaust and a cai I was running 16.0 at 87mph

 

[dr1665]

with only a header, exhaust and a cai I was running 16.0 at 87mph

Yeah, but that was downhill with a tail wind and you have all kinds of crazy weight reduction on that car.

 

[MightyMouse5310]

yeah, you'd be surprised how much weight loss you get with a/c, powersteering, full interior, and a a ten in a plywood box with the spare tire still in the car

 

[dr1665]

yeah, you'd be surprised how much weight loss you get with a/c, powersteering, full interior, and a a ten in a plywood box with the spare tire still in the car

No doubt! To get it any lighter, you'd have to add armor plating, two dozen cinder blocks, at least two more subs, and one of them aluminum park bench wings!

(You did spot that I was joking around, right?)

 

[MightyMouse5310]

yeah I got it...just thought I'd join in all the fun

 

[Locke]

a Quaife torque biasing diff would improve your launch and 60ft quite a bit http://www.roadraceengineering.com/quaife.htm

a South Bend Clutch clutch is great (they a local to me, i love them) http://www.southbendclutch.com

Fully synthetic engine oils have reportedly made power increases in the motor, where friction is reduced. Will the butt dyno feel it? Not likely. Track times show it? Perhaps in the slightest. Will your motor love you for it? Im sure it will.

And you should probably get rid of some crap in your car before you go to the track. Front and rear seats are easily removed and installed. Spare and jack obviously dont need to be there. Speaker box is easily removed. You can even remove your battery completely for your track run. Show up at the track with as little fuel as needed. Fuel is heavy.