113% IDC on 650's??

[Necromancer69]

First, mods. I am running a td05h 20g, slowboyFMIC, 255lph, FIC 650's, and dsmlink. Now, the problem. I used the formula on dsmlink to set my IDT and globals. I set them 330 and -30. Howevery, my trims were quite high. So, i brought it down to around 17 and my trims are right. I'm not running lean or rich and i'm right on the edge of knocking. this is with -2 degrees of timing pulled across the board. i'm running 10psi and creeping to 20psi in 3rd. Now, Should I be maxing out 650's on a 20g at 20psi?? Maybe there's something wrong somewhere? Any tips or comments would be appreciated.

 

[playitlouddsm]

Have you checked your base fuel pressure?

 

[Ryan95tsiAWD]

We hit 74% IDC with a e16g @ 20psi. All other mods are similar to yours (including 650fic's). Max flow is 32lbs...

 

[Ultimatedsm]

650's are good for e16g's but you need 750cc or larger for any 20g turbo.

 

[Necromancer69]

But what about the trims on dsmlink having to be set so low... I've never heard of anyone having to set 650's at -17... any thoughts?

 

[dnhieu]

hey man its funny that im having the same exact proplem and i have been looking for help but cant find it. im running a FMIC, 3" turbo back, ported big 16g, rewired walbro 255, full throttle fuel pressure regulator, fic 650cc injectors. to make things even more in common ill be switching to a 20g this weekend. anyways enough of the crap. i seem to think my problem is a bad 02 sensor. at WOT my o2 volts are at .84 which is dangerious lean but im getting no knock. i looked at my plugs and they are white wich tells me im lean also. but my bumper is black from unburnt fuel telling me im running rich. my o2s are cycling but its kinda sluggish so i will be swaping out o2 sensors while i do the 20g swap. im thinking that since the sensor is bad its defaulting to run pig rich and somehow mess with my injector duty cycle. i dont know if this is true but ill keep you informed.

 

[dnhieu]

also my buddy who i bought the fic injectors and 20g from was running 20psi and only getting 74% IDC so i know their is something messed up.

 

[Necromancer69]

let me know if the o2 sensor helps... or if you figure out what it is... i hit 125% IDC last night... this things gotta be wrong. Car's running like a raped ape from hell and not getting any knock with 125% IDC.. hmmm

 

[arash15]

thats where the saying "you get what you pay for" the only flaw in your setup is the injectors. get some denso 720's and you will be a happy camper, or have your injetors flow tested.

 

[dnhieu]

let me know if the o2 sensor helps... or if you figure out what it is... i hit 125% IDC last night... this things gotta be wrong. Car's running like a raped ape from hell and not getting any knock with 125% IDC.. hmmm

hey man i think i figured this bi*** out! i put on a 20g this weekend. i changed out o2 sensors and now my o2 voltage is up to par. now you dont tune of o2 voltage alone but, it will tell you if your rich or lean. all through the rpm band im seeing .93 volts and unless i have a bad boost leak im rich. so i started leaning the car out. my injector duty cycle is now 99% at redline! so im guessing im still rich because im seeing knock still and every time i lean it out it starts to go away slowly.

 

[dnhieu]

thats where the saying "you get what you pay for" the only flaw in your setup is the injectors. get some denso 720's and you will be a happy camper, or have your injetors flow tested.

where can i get my injectors flow tested? lets try no to get too far off topic....

 

[arash15]

where can i get my injectors flow tested? lets try no to get too far off topic....

give RC engineering or Fuel Injector Clinic a call

 

[daren_p]

Your IDC do seem too high, but your correction factor seems to low. Have you had the injectors flow tested? Whats your base fp? What kind of airflow are you logging with dsmlink? RC Engineering charges alot for testing. Check out www.cruzinperformance.com they have great prices, have amazing customer service and seem very knowledgeable. For cleaning & testing its $12 an injector and for just testing its $5 per injector.

I was just thinking did you happen to input that you are running 650 injectors in the props menu? (where you input things such as injector size, elevation, tire size, weight of car etc. to get all the correct calculated values) If not, it baseing the calculation on the stock 450 injectors, which would probably be about right with the IDC that you are seeing.

 

[dnhieu]

what is the turn around for the return of the injectors? im running maft and i have my settings right on for them. i find the leaner i seem to make it the lower my duty cycle seems to get. im still getting knock in the mid but my o2 volts are still at .92v which means im still running rich. i bumped my fuel pressure up to 40psi because i herd you wont really have 650cc injectors if you dont bump up the fuel pressure for FIC injectors.

thanks for the help
david

 

[daren_p]

what is the turn around for the return of the injectors? im running maft and i have my settings right on for them. i find the leaner i seem to make it the lower my duty cycle seems to get. im still getting knock in the mid but my o2 volts are still at .92v which means im still running rich. i bumped my fuel pressure up to 40psi because i herd you wont really have 650cc injectors if you dont bump up the fuel pressure for FIC injectors.

thanks for the help
david

You could probably have them done in a couple days, just send them an email and see what their turn around time is. I know in the spring they get pretty busy because everyone is gettin their cars ready for the race season. You are correct when you lean out the settings on the maft your IDC will go down as leaning out the maft is firing the injectors for less time and lowering the IDC. FIC's are rated to flow that amount (In your case 650) at 43.5 psi, the industry standard. Is that 40 psi with the vacuum hose disconnected?

 

[diambo4life]

450/650cc - 1 = -.3076 = -31%, where are you getting your -17 correction factor from?

Have you verified that your fuel is rising in a 1:1 ratio with boost? Have you checked your system for airflow leaks? Maybe you should do this first before assuming there's something wrong with your injectors.

You need to set everything to default, lower your boost and find out what the problem is.

 

[dnhieu]

You could probably have them done in a couple days, just send them an email and see what their turn around time is. I know in the spring they get pretty busy because everyone is gettin their cars ready for the race season. You are correct when you lean out the settings on the maft your IDC will go down as leaning out the maft is firing the injectors for less time and lowering the IDC. FIC's are rated to flow that amount (In your case 650) at 43.5 psi, the industry standard. Is that 40 psi with the vacuum hose disconnected?

it was set at 40psi with the vacuum line disconnected. should i bump it up to 43 psi? i just think im just flat out running rich. at WOT my o2's are at .91-.93v. i also have exhaust carbon all on the back of my bumper and my exhaust manifold after a hard 3rd gear pull on 14psi on a 20g isnt glowing red. the only problem is i have made two clicks to the left on the maft on both the mid and wot and my o2's havent moved. the good news is that my injector duty cycle is falling and is now at 99% from about 115%.

thanks for the help
david

 

[daren_p]

it was set at 40psi with the vacuum line disconnected. should i bump it up to 43 psi? i just think im just flat out running rich. at WOT my o2's are at .91-.93v. i also have exhaust carbon all on the back of my bumper and my exhaust manifold after a hard 3rd gear pull on 14psi on a 20g isnt glowing red. the only problem is i have made two clicks to the left on the maft on both the mid and wot and my o2's havent moved. the good news is that my injector duty cycle is falling and is now at 99% from about 115%.

thanks for the help
david

Well Im not an expert with 1g's or the maft but I'll try to help as best I can. I know 2g's have a base fp of 43.5 but the 1g's are slightly lower. If you have a proper fuel setup and you want those 650's to flow the correct I would think that setting your base to 43.5 would be a good idea. You are right though it sounds like you are running rich. Narrow band O2 readings aren't very good to go by at all as each sensor seems to be slightly different but your readings do seem abit high for a 1g. Personally I see about .90 on the narrow band (but Im a 2g, our O2 reading are normally higher then the 1g's) and thats tuned around 10.5 to 11.0 to 1 on my wideband. Carbon inside the muffler is standard but if your gettin alot on the bumper as well that would indicate rich as well. Do you have a logger? This would greatly help you out if you don't already have one. Do a wot pull and look for knock and timing being pulled. If this happens it usually indicates you are lean but if you are running too rich it will also do the same. Once this is done start removing fuel bit by bit. Each time do a wot pull and see if your getting knock. If not continue to remove fuel. If you start to see knock add fuel back in that area. Thats just a short description but you should get the idea.

 

[oldman]

Step one prior to tuning, boost leak test.

 

[dnhieu]

Well Im not an expert with 1g's or the maft but I'll try to help as best I can. I know 2g's have a base fp of 43.5 but the 1g's are slightly lower. If you have a proper fuel setup and you want those 650's to flow the correct I would think that setting your base to 43.5 would be a good idea. You are right though it sounds like you are running rich. Narrow band O2 readings aren't very good to go by at all as each sensor seems to be slightly different but your readings do seem abit high for a 1g. Personally I see about .90 on the narrow band (but Im a 2g, our O2 reading are normally higher then the 1g's) and thats tuned around 10.5 to 11.0 to 1 on my wideband. Carbon inside the muffler is standard but if your gettin alot on the bumper as well that would indicate rich as well. Do you have a logger? This would greatly help you out if you don't already have one. Do a wot pull and look for knock and timing being pulled. If this happens it usually indicates you are lean but if you are running too rich it will also do the same. Once this is done start removing fuel bit by bit. Each time do a wot pull and see if your getting knock. If not continue to remove fuel. If you start to see knock add fuel back in that area. Thats just a short description but you should get the idea.

i got the general idea but this is sending me mixed thoughts. my bumper, and o2s are telling me im rich but my knock is confusing me. im getting knock in the mid rpm band. i get ruffly around 8 counts at 3k and it slowly drops to 0 at 7k wich is killing my timing advance. im only getting about 8 degrees at 7k. im confused on if its rich knock or lean knock. when i lean it out im getting the same amount of knock. i forget how much fuel the maft takes out but i have taken about a little bit of fuel. does anyone know how to post a log from a logger so i can show you all what im talking about?

 

[dnhieu]

Step one prior to tuning, boost leak test.

are you trying to tell me im showing signs of a boost leak? i did one before i started tuning my 16g which i took off this weekend and put a 20g on. ill do a boost leak test right now and tell you my results.

thanks
david

 

[oldman]

are you trying to tell me im showing signs of a boost leak?

David, both you and the original poster are showing possible signs of boost leaks.

 

[dnhieu]

well at 20psi boost leak i only had a small one at the tb shaft seals. so it didnt hold the 20lb for 30 seconds but is a very tiny boost leak gonna cause me to have a .93 o2 voltage?

 

[JiggahMan]

well at 20psi boost leak i only had a small one at the tb shaft seals. so it didnt hold the 20lb for 30 seconds but is a very tiny boost leak gonna cause me to have a .93 o2 voltage?

quit basing your tuning off o2 voltage. fix the damn boost leak and go from there.

 

[dnhieu]

im not basing my tuning of o2's. im using my o2's to determine if im rich or lean. im tuning off timing advance and knock. i boost leak tested my car during my lunch break and im sorry if i didnt have time to take my TB off, rebuild it and reinstall it on the car. thanks for your usless informantion