Will i need ARP headstuds?

[streetracer618]

Hey i was told that i am going to need some ARP headstuds, i didnt thinik i would need them, but some people say i do, heres my mod lists

T3/T4-50-Trim full garret stage 3 wheel
dnp tubular manifold
Tial 38mm wastegate
FPR
PTE 880cc Injectors
ACT 2600 Clutch kit
ACT street lite flywheel
Maf-T
GM MAS
Hall man pro mbc
TurboBack exhasut
DsmLink
Boost gauge
FMIC kit
Dejopn Intake
Greddy kevlar Timing belt
Brian Crower272 Cams

basically my goal is to tap into the 11's with over 400 horsepower, do u guys think i need those?

 

[Daveed]

You definitely need them if you are going to do ANY mods to the motor like you listed.
The bonus of having them is that they are reusable up to a certain point. The stock headbolts are a one time use.

 

[sickgsx-316]

Most definitely man. Should throw in a built trans too because on a 2600 and with those HP levels you're going to need one sooner than later.

 

[kahl23]

Well the big question is how much boost you plan to be running. To make 400+ HP, you'll need to be running in the mid to high 20's. My call would be spring for the bolts, they're cheap insurance. The last thing you want is for the head to be lifting off the block under boost. Just so you know, very high 11's are definitely possible on that setup as is 400+ horsepower at the crank. 400 horsepower at the wheels? You will be pushing it. I've been running pretty much the same setup as you, just with a Evo III 16G for the turbo. Just got back from the dyno last week where we were running 374 whp. That same setup got us a 12.0 1/4 time and a best trap speed of 116.8. Good luck with the build!

 

[kahl23]

Oh yeah, one more thing. If you plan to be pulling the head more than two or three times down the road, I'd pay even more for the A1 Technologies headstuds or the ARP L119s. Although the standard ARPs are strong, the do eventually stretch. The A1's don't. Before anyone argues with me, I just pulled my head to put on an SMIM. My ARPs had stretched by about 1/2mm. SickGSX is also right. You need a built tranny. Give Shep a call.

 

[marsh63]

i wouldn't ever put a head back on the car without them. look at anyones profile who is building as much power as you want and see what they got. like everyone else said if i was you id get them.

 

[Matt4g63]

I have arp head studs and im basically stock... i thought it was just a good choice seeing as they are guaranteed not to stretch.

 

[210 dsm]

if you dont install those studs then your head will walk on the block for sure.. the funny thing is their cheaper then every mod you listed (except belt) so i wouldent risk the health of that motor if i were you.

 

[spyderturbo007]

I've been running the stock head studs and gasket on the EVO III at 22psi for about a year now. Haven't lifted the head yet. I'm not advocating that you try it, but I'm just too lazy to replace the studs. I think I'll try the "replace one at a time without removing the head" method in the spring, so I can crank down on the MBC some more.

 

[streetracer618]

yea i am going to get them, and what else do u guys think i would need to get to 450+ horsepower, i think the cams are going to help my set alot

 

[kahl23]

I think you're a little preoccupied with numbers streetracer. We've all been there at one point. I would do the mods your planning to do and run with those for a year or two. Then upgrade. If you decide you want instant gratification, then I would skip the T3 and go for an FP3052 or FP3065. Mine just arrived this afternoon! Forced Performance does some wonderful work. You'll also need a Tial 44mm wastegate and one of their 02 housings. Like I said, I would start with what you already were planning to do and see how you like it. I promise you'll be pleasantly surprised.

 

[2gntrbo]

double post

 

[streetracer618]

ok, thanxs kahl, and yea so you think i will be happy wiht my setup i hope so, im getting all this stuff installed a bout a month and a half when the weather clears up and i cant wait to see and feel the difference

 

[kahl23]

Haha good luck with the install! I'm surprised you have the discipline to wait that long. The name of the game is layers of clothing my friend. To get you excited for what awaits you, I will leave you with this story: I took a friend of mine for a drive. We did a launch and a pull up to about 65 mph. She turned to me and said, "My stomach just dropped into my ass and I think we left both of them 200 feet up the road." Have fun.

 

[streetracer618]

hell yea man thats what i like to hear, i hope the cams really wake the car up, i think my top end is going tobe crazy, and also i got one final quistion ok, i havent got all this stuff, well i have half of it in my room, and im getting the other one step at a time, and ive been told i wont need new spring and all that for my cams, ok so my questions is i have dsmlink now, so i can raise the rev limiter would it be ok to lets say rev it to 7500 rpm or a tid higher and be ok without the new springs and all?

 

[blcknspo0ln]

I've been running the stock head studs and gasket on the EVO III at 22psi for about a year now. Haven't lifted the head yet. I'm not advocating that you try it, but I'm just too lazy to replace the studs. I think I'll try the "replace one at a time without removing the head" method in the spring, so I can crank down on the MBC some more.

Remember to tap the threads when you do this! I'd hate to see you on the "I blew my headgasket" boat! Somehow I'm sure you'll be taking care of yourself, though.

hell yea man thats what i like to hear, i hope the cams really wake the car up, i think my top end is going tobe crazy, and also i got one final quistion ok, i havent got all this stuff, well i have half of it in my room, and im getting the other one step at a time, and ive been told i wont need new spring and all that for my cams, ok so my questions is i have dsmlink now, so i can raise the rev limiter would it be ok to lets say rev it to 7500 rpm or a tid higher and be ok without the new springs and all?

Cams are way too fun once you install them I would also look into getting an SMIM while the car is down. If you start to save now, $500 bucks will be oh so worth it. As far as the springs, I ran FP2's to 8000 all season long on a stock 1G head. Would I do it again? yup. Although, user be wary, some have experienced valve float revving to that high. If you want to be safe for up to 8k, I would look into single springs/retainers and duals if you want to go even higher.

 

[spyderturbo007]

Remember to tap the threads when you do this! I'd hate to see you on the "I blew my headgasket" boat! Somehow I'm sure you'll be taking care of yourself, though.

I hope I never have to start a thread like that. Unless I feel lazy in the spring and just decide to turn up the boost and see how high I can go before I lift the head. I mean, someone has to do some QC testing on the stock studs, right?

 

[turboglenn]

Definately stud the motor, at least the head. If you can afford it and the motor is out, have the rods and then mains done as well. The rest of your setup looks and sounds to be a good platform, but without the proper fastners to hold it all together you'll be pulling it apart again when you really start romping on it and tuning for high boosts

 

[kahl23]

Well you can run it with the stock springs, but they won't last forever. It's not a question of how high you rev it (although a higher redline will certainly lead to an even shorter life), realize that the 272s have different lift and duration than the stock setup. The stock springs aren't designed to handle this type of stress. They will work, but you will be driving on borrowed time. As blckn points out, you can run it for a season or two without problems. That said, you will eventually kill your head. If you've got the money, I'd spring (pun intended, sorry) for a new setup. If not, then run stock and start saving. I'm running Crower springs and retainers and couldn't be happier. Also realize on your setup, you won't be making any power above 7,500. The only reason to rev higher is because it's fun, damn fun (I also rev to 8,500 on the 1/4 mile so I don't need to shift out of third). As for the sheet metal intake manifold, I would hold off. They definitely can make a difference, but that turbo really isn't going to be flowing the amount of air where you will notice the difference. Also, SMIMs can demand some really weird turning from DSMLink. Everyone's experience is different, but you might have to dive deep into the VE Table. Assuming that you haven't worked with DSMLink before, I would hold off. Get a feel for how to calibrate the MAF followed by the fuel and ignition and by that point, you will be ready to deal with the potential challenges posed by a SMIM.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

Great advice. Maybe I'm crazy, but I didn't tweak my VE that much with my old setup. Maybe there's something I missed

 

[kahl23]

I think it really depends on what SMIM you're running. Like I said, everyone's experience is different. Some guys I know slapped their SMIM on and ran with it. Others spent absurd amounts of time trying to dial it in. YMMV.

 

[91whiteGSX]

Hey whats up guys Im in the middle of doing the head over and I got ARP Bolts for free .. but im not sure if there head bolts it says 207 - 5401 Mitsubishi 2.0 4 Cylinder 12PT MSK... and i opend the box and theres 10 bolts and washers and the bolts so are these for the 1GEN motor???

 

[GVR4592]

I don't even know where to start. Who here has actually stretched a factory head bolt? I bet none of you have. Even if you think you did you would really have no way of knowing unless you removed the bolts, measured them, re-installed them, and measured them again when you removed them the next time. Everybody associates blown head gaskets with the factory bolts stretching, when it's a tuning issue 99% of the time. No head gasket/bolt/stud combo is going to hold against a ton of detonation. A steel gasket is more resistant, but eventually it's going to let go.

You definitely need them if you are going to do ANY mods to the motor like you listed.
The bonus of having them is that they are reusable up to a certain point. The stock headbolts are a one time use.

None of those modifications he listed would directly increase cylinder pressure enough to stretch any bolt or stud. Stock bolts are not a one time use.

Well the big question is how much boost you plan to be running. To make 400+ HP, you'll need to be running in the mid to high 20's. My call would be spring for the bolts, they're cheap insurance. The last thing you want is for the head to be lifting off the block under boost. Just so you know, very high 11's are definitely possible on that setup as is 400+ horsepower at the crank. 400 horsepower at the wheels? You will be pushing it. I've been running pretty much the same setup as you, just with a Evo III 16G for the turbo. Just got back from the dyno last week where we were running 374 whp. That same setup got us a 12.0 1/4 time and a best trap speed of 116.8. Good luck with the build!

The head won't lift off of the block from boost, it will lift from detonation. If the engine is tuned correctly, it won't be an issue.

Oh yeah, one more thing. If you plan to be pulling the head more than two or three times down the road, I'd pay even more for the A1 Technologies headstuds or the ARP L119s. Although the standard ARPs are strong, the do eventually stretch. The A1's don't. Before anyone argues with me, I just pulled my head to put on an SMIM. My ARPs had stretched by about 1/2mm. SickGSX is also right. You need a built tranny. Give Shep a call.

Overtorque or a lot of detonation. I've had ARP's in my car for 2 years, pulled them out at least 5 times, and have never measured any noticeable stretch, with 30 psi on a GT35 on PUMPGAS.

f you dont install those studs then your head will walk on the block for sure.. the funny thing is their cheaper then every mod you listed (except belt) so i wouldent risk the health of that motor if i were you.

Walk on the block? Again the head isn't going anywhere unless there is an extreme spike in cylinder pressure.

n make a difference, but that turbo really isn't going to be flowing the amount of air where you will notice the difference. Also, SMIMs can demand some really weird turning from DSMLink. Everyone's experience is different, but you might have to dive deep into the VE Table.

The VE table isn't used unless you're outflowing the air flow sensor.

 

[pboglio]

Gonna disagree, I stretched the stock 2g bolts. Whether it was from cylinder pressure increases or detonation, don't know, don't care either. I do know ARPs completely eliminated my sealing problems and I'd consider them mandatory for any 2g turbo running some serious boost. On a 1g I don't think they are as critical since the shank diameter is bigger than the 2gs' head bolts.

 

[1bad91tsi]

i would go for them,also might want to o-ring your head