which would be better???

[lou schmouder]

50 shot of dry zex kit or intercooler spray kit . I do have a fully built motor but dont want to spend 12 a gallon on a dd for gas . Also heard to many storys of meth going wrong

 

[nuclearr]

I personally do not like nos. So I would get the sprayer kit.

I just do not like what nos does to an engine to increas hp.
I know in the right configuration there is no worrys about engine damage. But I still do not trust it.

 

[LiquidX]

Well, it depends on if you want to be street legal or not. Nitrous is illegal to have hooked up on the street but is great if you are going to be using it as a track car. The sprayer will cool down the IC temps a bit, but you would be better off going it a meth injection kit instead so you can turn the boost up and not have knock. You can have the same amount if not more possibility for damage with nitrous use too.

With just a 16g and Link, there isn't a need for any of those IMO and that's based off of your profile. Do some research on all that you asked about and find the info out that you need to know. Peoples opionions will vary on what they *think* would be the best route, but only you know for sure what you actual plans are and what you want to do with it. Find product reviews and anything else related to it.

Edit:

How the hell did you get $12/gallon for DD?

 

[lou schmouder]

sorry havent updated my profile in a while . c16 were I am at is 12 a gallon.Well also been told that dry nitrous is a BIG no no for dsms . and wanted to go meth but helping 2 other friends rebiuld the car bc the meth failed on them

 

[LiquidX]

Meth is a non compressable liquid so if too much was sprayed in, you'll have problems. So why are you even considering race gas for a DD? You can do pretty damn good numbers on premium gas + meth or go use E85 which is cheaper than premium. Following links are 1/4 mile times and Dyno numbers. All are either pump gas or E85 (NO RACE GAS)

DSM 1/4 Mile Times - Pump Gas
DSM 1/4 Mile Times - E85

DSM Dyno Challenge - Pump Gas
DSM Dyno Challenge - E85

Nitrous just shouldn't be used at all unless you know what you are doing and is only used on the TRACK. If your motor isn't set up to handle the sudden power then yes, you'll have problems just like any motor out there. Hell, 4g63 blocks are stronger than Honda blocks so what's so bad about DSMs using nitrous?

 

[lou schmouder]

thats what I thought when i can to the spray. closes e85 is 66 miles from me and dont wana pay 12 a gallon for gas . when my friends cars meth koncked out thet ran lean and torched the pistons and rings .

 

[LiquidX]

thats what I thought when i can to the spray. closes e85 is 66 miles from me and dont wana pay 12 a gallon for gas . when my friends cars meth koncked out thet ran lean and torched the pistons and rings .

Then just use premium dude, there is NO reason at all to run race gas.

If you don't keep an eye on your fluid levels, then you will run out. It can be set to only spray after a certain PSI as well. Say you want to run 30psi and on pump gas you start to knock at 25psi. Have the Meth start to spray when you hit 24 psi so it's only on when you need it to be on. Windshield washer fluid is fine to use as substitute as it contains something like 35-40% meth.

You have to also moniter the health of the car and log so everything is running fine before "forgetting about it". Your friend neglected to check fluid levels or didn't have a low level light which some kits come with. If meth was that bad for vehicles, then it wouldn't be used in a lot of applications to get rid of knock and to run higher boost numbers.

So what is your reason for wanting the sprayer or nitrous anyway? If you are concerned with knock issues for the meth, then just don't run such high of boost.

IC sprayer can be made for dirt cheap and you just need a compressed gas (air, nitrogen, CO2 etc.) You aren't limited to using nitrous which is more expensive and still illegal to have in a street vehicle.

 

[lou schmouder]

yea one of my friends used wasfluid and clugged the injector up and the other had it on 5% at 10 and when the pump dieded he tryed to drive it home but couldnt keep it below 10psi which frieded the rings

 

[LiquidX]

yea one of my friends used wasfluid and clugged the injector up and the other had it on 5% at 10 and when the pump dieded he tryed to drive it home but couldnt keep it below 10psi which frieded the rings

Please: Use proper spelling, grammar, and punctuation when posting in our Tech Forums - don't use texting/instant messaging lingo here. This isn't an English class, but we demand that you at least make an attempt or your posts will be deleted. Internet Explorer users should download IEspell or just use Firefox since it has spell check built-in.

Clogged the injector up? If anything, meth injecton will CLEAN the cylinder. So your friend blew it up on his own then. There is no way that running at 10psi is going to blow your motor if you have the supporting fuel. That is of course if his motor wasn't built for boost applications. I'm sorry, but your friends was just stuipid that he didn't check levels and and somehow caused the pump to burn out.

If your friends were using nitrous, they prob. would have blown a rod out the block IMO. Once you follow the upgrade path and have all the maintenance and repairs done you will be fine to run meth. Meth is only supposed to be used when you are in boost levels that would cause knock without meth injection. Stock wastegate on the t25 is about 10psi and in order to run a larger turbo, you'll have the fuel mods to back it up and have it tuned first anyway.

What do you think people do when they run out of meth while out on a cruise? Sit on the side of the road and wait to get a ride to the store? No, they stay out of the boost range that would cause knock and would be able to moniter the engine health via gauges or a logger if they still felt the need to go into those levels (though that would be very stupid to do).

All I'm saying is that meth is safe to use if used properly and will allow you to run higher boost than what pump gas would normally allow you to run. I highly doubt you would be running 28psi on the street all day anyway which goes back to my question from earlier. Why do you want to run nitrous, sprayer or meth and what are your goals?

 

[fastbike02]

I used zex wet kits before and they work really well, just dont count on it for all the time. Like boost it will wear your motor out if overused.

 

[Matty-D]

One thing for an intercooler spray bar - you can use CO2 instead of N20. CO2 is WAY Cheaper

Also the difference in price between a wet and dry nitrous kit is not much. If you run N20 go with a wet kit.

I plan to run direct port nitrous in the future (I've had a kit sitting in my garage for a few years now). But I have a twist in mind. 6 Nozzles. 4 wet - 1 per cyl. 2 dry used to cool the intake charge. (either before or after the FMIC I will likely test to see which cools the intake charge more). This will likely not be done in 2010 as I will NOT run it without an electronic nitrous controller. My 88T - 300ZX has an almost bulletproof drivetrain. It seems the DSM might prefer a more gentle approach.

 

[rarson]

I just do not like what nos does to an engine to increas hp.

What the hell is that supposed to mean? Nitrous adds oxygen to the engine. A turbocharger does the same thing.

Meth is a non compressable liquid so if too much was sprayed in, you'll have problems.

All liquids are essentially incompressible. The problem with meth is that if the fuel fails, the meth keeps spraying. I would definitely not rely on spraying meth on a daily driver for that reason.

Say you want to run 30psi and on pump gas you start to knock at 25psi. Have the Meth start to spray when you hit 24 psi so it's only on when you need it to be on.

That's not how it works.

Windshield washer fluid is fine to use as substitute as it contains something like 35-40% meth.

Most windshield washer fluids contains ethanol, not methanol. They also contain detergents, which will clog your injection nozzle.

All I'm saying is that meth is safe to use if used properly

MANY people disagree with you.

To answer the original question, IC sprayer or nitrous, I think you'd be stupid to choose an IC sprayer over nitrous, with the caveat that I'm talking about a wet kit, not a dry kit. You're not going to see anywhere near the power gain from an IC sprayer that you would from nitrous. A small dry shot may work, but you have to be very sure that you have accurate control and enough headroom on your fuel system to support the extra power. A wet kit shouldn't be too much more expensive though so I'd just go with a wet kit.

Whatever you do, don't spray perfectly good nitrous at the outside of an intercooler.

 

[1gDSM4g63]

Methanol is the best way to go for you. As long as you put a reliable methanol kit in like Snow Performance you'll be safe. You can even do two nozzles like I do on my zo6 which is safely pushing out 800 whp on methanol + 91 oct back in CA.

By the way, in no need do you need the use race gas 24/7 on a DD. You'll wear down your engine if you're push it that hard. You need to tune it down a bit.

Most windshield washer fluids contains ethanol, not methanol. They also contain detergents, which will clog your injection nozzle.

Where did you hear that? Windshield washer fluids contains methanol not ethanol.

 

[rarson]

It's not the reliability of the methanol kit that's the problem, it's the reliability of the fuel system. Last year, Lucas English was running meth instead of an intercooler and lost an engine due to fuel pump failure. The meth system was still working just fine... and that's the problem.

 

[dsm-onster]

WOW when your fuel system fails then come back and tell us about unreliability. In the mean time, we'll run the circuit and endurance proven walbro fuel pumps and rc/fc/etc injectors and have no problems. . . yep sh!t can happen, but a "nawz" hickup is far more frequent than a failure of a properly setup fuel system.

A race car driver had a failure once. Ouch.

There is NO published MSDS with ethanol as a major componenet in wiper fluid. It would be silly at best financially. Meth is far more cost effective to mass produce and doesn't need to be "denatured" to sell without a tax. Denaturing usually entails diluting it with meth anyway. See the MSDS of slx denatured alcohol (50/50 meth/eth).

BTW the cheapest most common wiper fluid does NOT contain detergents. I hope you're not thinking that "name brand" and/or higher priced is the route to take with water/meth injection WTF

 

[rarson]

I run a Walbro and I have never had any problems with it. I'm not doubting the reliability of the fuel system, I'm stating that a failure of the fuel system results in catastrophic damage when meth is being injected. Lucas' car was just one example.

You're correct, most windshield washer fluid is methanol-based. For some reason I thought that methanol had been replaced in washer fluid due to its toxicity. But there are some ethanol-based washer fluids out there. You're also right about detergents. Many brands still use them but the cheap stuff doesn't. That's what I get for trying to comment based on old information that I thought I remembered.

Nitrous accidents are common because nitrous is cheap and many people don't bother to educate themselves on how to use it or how to hook it up properly. And plus, there's a lot more people using nitrous than meth injection, so you're going to hear about nitrous accidents more than meth accidents.

 

[dsm-onster]

I see where you're coming from now.


. . . BTW wouldn't catastrophic engine failure be very possible if the fuel system failed anyway? I cracked 4 pistons hitting fuel cut on an 18g (maxed out 550s: airflow exceeded the limit the ecu places on the motor even after conpensating for the 550s).

. . .But in all YES!!!! I agree don't do anything with any sort of injection (meth h20 or "nawz") until you do your homework.

 

[MM's Talon]

don't do nos please i hate nos and if you were to go with that don't use a dry kit, go with a wet kit with a small shot

 

[LiquidX]

I'm still awaiting a reason as to why you want to run either of them especially after claiming you can only run race gas..

 

[rarson]

. . . BTW wouldn't catastrophic engine failure be very possible if the fuel system failed anyway? I cracked 4 pistons hitting fuel cut on an 18g (maxed out 550s: airflow exceeded the limit the ecu places on the motor even after conpensating for the 550s).

Yeah, I'd say so. The problem with fuel cut is that you're still going to get some fuel into the cylinder. For instance, on a batch-fire fuel injection system, all the injectors fire at the same time regardless of which valves are open, and the fuel pools at the valve and enters the cylinder when the valve opens. I imagine that in a moment of instant fuel cut, it's probably physically impossible to prevent any fuel from entering the cylinder, even on a sequential-fire system. Now if you could prevent that, there wouldn't be a problem because there wouldn't be an air/fuel mixture to ignite.

In meth and nitrous injection though, if the fuel pump fails, the injection nozzles don't know this and you're still spraying. The meth is going to result in an extremely lean mixture while the nitrous is going to need some fuel present to cause havoc, since nitrous isn't flammable. Either way, I would NOT want to hit fuel cut while spraying either one.

Loss of fuel by itself is certainly a problem, and damage probably depends on the kind of power the engine is putting out. I wonder if anyone has ever tried making an ignition cut wired up to a pressure differential switch (boost versus fuel pressure) to avoid losing fuel without cutting spark. Seems like such a system could potentially save an engine in a number of scenarios.

 

[dsm-onster]

I see what you mean. Spark cut would have been alot better feature than fuel cut. . . But i'm no Mitsu automotive designer. . .

I'm all about safety I have a safety switch for my meth injections. teh hobbs switch cuts off when the pressure goes below the max psi a hobbs switch responds to so that when you have an empty meth tank, you don't run your aggresive tune with just pump gas. But it would be nice to know that no matter the scenerio, there'd be no issues.

 

[NET ERROR]

Make sure your engine is in good condition if using NOS . Too much stress on un-maintained engine is never good .

 

[lou schmouder]

well I have never seen a meth kit that will allow you to only set it at 20+ psi all I have seen are meth kits that spray a little then go wide open at a certion psi. Is there any place that will show me how to make my own intercooler spray kit ???

 

[LiquidX]

well I have never seen a meth kit that will allow you to only set it at 20+ psi all I have seen are meth kits that spray a little then go wide open at a certion psi. Is there any place that will show me how to make my own intercooler spray kit ???

What are your goals anyway for needing all of this? What's prompting you to want either kit and why were you insisting that you needed to run race gas?

 

[lou schmouder]

last time I will not run race gas ....want 400 whp my motor was in another car and made 350whp on pump and 449 on c16.