Which Turbo Should I Get [merged] What Turbo

[Ludachris]

Which turbo will be sufficient for consistent 11 second times? I've recently decided on a big 16g, but will that be big enough to run 11s with supporting mods and decent tuning? Remember, this is for a budget street car, so any one purchase over $1k is tough. A big 16g will run about $700-900, which is about $300-400 less than the larger alternatives.

Of course, I'll need lots of practice to run these times, but, I just want to make sure that it's possible before the money is spent.

 

[Precision]

Is it possible that this motor has what it takes to spool a t4 before 4000? I'll purhcase a nitrus system if nessasary.

 

[GSX4LIFE]

It absolutely has the ability to spool a full T4. Thats actually what I would recommend. Either a GT40/P-trim or a T67/P-trim in somthing like a .58 housing. I wont say it will spool before 4000rpm, but it will be maneagable. And yeah, there is always a nitrous. A little 30 or 50 shot goes a long way.

 

[Precision]

It absolutely has the ability to spool a full T4. Thats actually what I would recommend. Either a GT40/P-trim or a T67/P-trim in somthing like a .58 housing. I wont say it will spool before 4000rpm, but it will be maneagable. And yeah, there is always a nitrous. A little 30 or 50 shot goes a long way.

Where would be a good place to pick one of these up?

 

[green92gsx]

Where would be a good place to pick one of these up?

Forced Performance

 

[biglady112]

What is the deal with forced performance and DSM people. My good friend and every local here has maxed out every turbo they have to offer. These turbo are nothing special and similar setups can be had for much cheaper. Yea you oay for what you get but seriously.

Ever since I have seen the light, a garrett or big turbo is the only way to go. Personally we are running a Precision GT-4274 on our race 2G and couldn't be happier with it. It's a T-4 frame exhuast housing. 96lb/min compressor. Any large T-3 housing or T-4 housing looks like it will be great for you. Anything from the T-61 and up. The big turbo just plain flow more. Not to take away from anything anyone has done in the DSM community, but we are now in the days where the 4G63/4 can handle/support a real turbo. IE a big turbo.

Good luck with you choice. Maybe the T3/T67 or small T-70 family turbo will work well for you. Leaves plenty of head room and not bad spool.

Steven

 

[DSMSpyder99]

a full garrett is the best way to go if you want to go big. Getting a PTE GT30 isnt as iefficient as getting a full garrett GT30 because it wasnt designed to use the mitsu housing.

 

[green92gsx]

What is the deal with forced performance and DSM people. My good friend and every local here has maxed out every turbo they have to offer. These turbo are nothing special and similar setups can be had for much cheaper. Yea you oay for what you get but seriously.

Your friends run 8.40's at 170+ mph? How about 9.4x's at 140+mph all boost with the FP3065?
Yeah, well then it looks like they should be looking further up the food chain.
If not then it wasn't the turbos fault.

 

[1badturbo]

well my car is not awd

 

[hellotbone]

Well its a tough decision when doing a major thing like a turbo swap and the $$ involved and the supporting mods. You can take this however you wish but here is it from someone like you who took the cheap way and learned from it and now the right way.

I started out with my car bone stock and found this site (big mistake) cost me alot of damn money. Start reading and decide on an exhaust intake MBC and k&n filter and I get a nice little gain from my car. Start reading more humm I don't need an afc to run a 14b turbo so I get one and hack it on myself and drive it @17psi till the 14b blows smoke

Now I meet dsmjim and we talk turbo's I was like I think a 16g or whatever its called (I was noob) would be good for me so we started to talk about my goals oh you know just a quick street car. Ok sounds good but lets go for a ride in my car first Jim says its a 50 trim bit more money but will give you an idea I say ok. We go deal sealed 50 trim it is. So then he starts explaining that I need to decide on the WG setup and I didn't want to do all the work at the time well I went internal. I had no boost creep or anything but I was without front mount. I forgot to mention I did 550 injectors soon after the 14b and then had to get 650's because of the turbo jump (decide before you start) these mods will catch up to you. Anyways that done installed the 50 trim and had it half assed on there meaning stock smic and exhaust piping for ic pipes. Drove it at 10 psi till I had some loot for a front mount go that on and started to play and it was good. Fast forward a bit get CW and do a 6bolt and MT swap get it back togeather and a month later my 50 trim takes a dump. So now do I rebuild the turbo with 5000 km on it thats already toast or do something different.

Different it is and wow much better

I go with turbonectics manifold tial external gate and turbonetics t3/t4 50 trim I also throw on an MSD DIS II and Lm1 wide band and n-tercooler sprayer. Anyways the msd and ntercooler were not needed but coolness factor couldn't let me pass the deal I was getting on them when a friend was selling. Anyways the Lm1 is worth every penny and then some for tuning made my car 2x faster in 15 minutes is the shit.

Anyways moral of all the typing is that know your goals now and see where you want to go I wish I had gone external before its so much better tricker and the right way. Everything works smoother and there is no creeping or anything its just a superior setup. Don't get me wrong not bashing the internal get but the external is IMO way better with my experience.

Weight all the info you can before you choose and do it right the first time or don't bother doing it at all.

 

[biglady112]

Ok slick. Let me rephrase. Since you seem to be on the band wagon as well I will break it down for you. Notice how I live in Colorado. That's right. Our track is at 5800 ft above sea level. The road courses are all over 6000 feet. So turbo's run out of breath real fast here. There is three guys locally who maxed out 3065's on stroker motors.

All of us are at T-70 family turbos or using GT-42 variants now. Don't get me wrong, FP is a great company and has done some good in the DSM community. They produce great products. But they are not the tell all be all of turbos and dsm's. We have all started following the Supra guys. They have been making more power longer than dsm's have. They have their own vendors that everyone hails like Forced Performance. But all follow the same paths for putting a big turbo(s) on their cars. They have been there doing what works from the start. Yes they have more to work with, but it is all just parts in the end.

FP will suit most people inour community, but when my friends daughter maxed out her 25/44 at 22psi and the other locals maxed out thier 3065's airflow wise at 26-32psi, then its time to step up and take advantage of the aftermarket. The above mentioned girl has since moved onto a 65lb/min turbo. It is close to being maxed out but that is all we need for that car. These locals just simply can't make any more power with the turbos. they have either reverted to nitrous or T-4 family turbos.

To the original poster, you know where I stand. Take everyone's advice for what its worth and choose carefully. Our GT-42 setup actually cost us about $250 less than a 3065 or 3575 setup would have. This includes the downpipe and wastegate and manifold. Big turbos are cheap. If you go journal bearing that is. Oh and nitrous spools this monster faster than you might imagine a 96lb/min would.

Steven

 

[Mark90gst]

well 350-400whp is a good amount of power. Percision turbos offers some great turbos. I watch these cars on the dyno all the time. I have seen 60-1 make 375 all day long with little tuning. A 16g would be really hard to make that much power. There are many choses out there and being FWD gives you about a 15% advantage on the dnyo. Cams would also help you out getting to the 400whp mark. Just a advice on the subject but everyone will tell you something different but I watch the dyno all day long too.
mark

 

[Precision]

Thanks for the input guys, it is most appreciated

 

[GSX4LIFE]

OK BigLady112, allow me to retort. 1st and foremost, FP doesn't just sell their own proprietary bolt on's. FP is one of the premier turbo builders in the industry. They can supply an individual with whatever turbo he or she wants. (And no, I'm not on the bandwagon, I have never purchased a turbo from FP)

The next portion I want to delve into is your attitude on "following the Supra crowd", as you so eloquently put it. Your talking about a 3.0 liter engine that puts out nearly double the exhaust energy that a 2.0L can. Even a 2.3 or 2.4 is no match for the GTQ spinning ability that the stock Supra powerplant is capable of. This way of thinking often leads to mediocre performance, and shift recovery that makes you I understand the altitude dilemma. But the answere 6000' elevation is more boost, not bigger turbo(I covered this in another thread).


The last detail I will point out, is something very obvious. You state that all of your group uses T-70 or larger turbos, yet right in your avatar you have a dyno number that doesn't even breach 500whp. Altitude affects a turbocharged vehicle very little in power production. You simply must run more boost. if your using a 96lb. per min. turbo to make less than 500whp, well, my point is made.

 

[Precision]

I was doing some research on the gt42 and appropriate hardware and this is what I found, Magnus makes a kick XXX split manifold, FP sells gt42 in a lighter more efficient version. Now here is what troubles me. On magnus's page they said that "480 whp to the wheel through an automatic at 22psi on a 2.4L boost by 5500". Granted it's an automatic, and autos suck up a lot of power. I have no idea what cams, if they had OS valves or any extensive porting. Which will all heavily affect the spool up, and the power the turbo can make off of the motor.

Now my question is, with my racing cams and extensive port work. And running about another 14 Lbs. or boost. Do you think that my power numbers will be exponentially better than these?

 

[peregrine]

OK BigLady112, allow me to retort. 1st and foremost, FP doesn't just sell their own proprietary bolt on's. FP is one of the premier turbo builders in the industry. They can supply an individual with whatever turbo he or she wants. (And no, I'm not on the bandwagon, I have never purchased a turbo from FP)

The next portion I want to delve into is your attitude on "following the Supra crowd", as you so eloquently put it. Your talking about a 3.0 liter engine that puts out nearly double the exhaust energy that a 2.0L can. Even a 2.3 or 2.4 is no match for the GTQ spinning ability that the stock Supra powerplant is capable of. This way of thinking often leads to mediocre performance, and shift recovery that makes you I understand the altitude dilemma. But the answere 6000' elevation is more boost, not bigger turbo(I covered this in another thread).


The last detail I will point out, is something very obvious. You state that all of your group uses T-70 or larger turbos, yet right in your avatar you have a dyno number that doesn't even breach 500whp. Altitude affects a turbocharged vehicle very little in power production. You simply must run more boost. if your using a 96lb. per min. turbo to make less than 500whp, well, my point is made.

i was going to post something similar to this but decided my fingers couldnt take it. i live at 4800 ft and have little problem making more power when i need it (simply turn up the boost and then retune for it). the only time ive heard of a turbo running out of steam at 22 psi is when its about 16g or smaller or theres a massive boost leak somewhere. a t70 framed turbo should be good to about 35-40 psi no matter what the altitude because thats why they were invented, to make their OWN atmosphere. i will say that my car is noticeably more powerful at sea level but doesnt gain a whole lot of mph/et at the track. maybe 2/10ths and 2-3 mph.

 

[biglady112]

Well if you look what turbo I was using it was a Buschur 580. That turbo was maxed out airflow wise. The GT-42 powered 2G has yet to see the dyno. I know that FP can provide any turbo to fit anyone's needs. I am just talking about their bolt ons. They are great yes. But there just seems to be a lot of people that have come to the conclusion that FP is the only way to go. Or their larger bolt ons. I just like to have everyone realize that bigger turbos (T3 or T4) are not to far fetched and can work well on a DSM.

I realize that they use a 3.0L engine. But it doesn't mean that those things won't work for us as well. I am not following persay what they and as in do what they do, just see what works for huge power. A 600-800whp DSM is insane. But who says we can't see what more we can do with our little cars. IE John Shepard.

Well I am not going to argue anymore. This is a moot point for me, I was just trying to offer the man a suggestion. FORCED PERFORMANCE is great. But as everyone knows bolt on housings can only get you so far in the real world. I was on the band wagon at one point as well and thought there is no way I could ever need something that big, but with 1.5 hours of dyno time with the 60-1 I found out that it doesn't take long to bring air flow up. I hit 54lbs/min on stock 90 cams and 1G intake. This was at just over 6000 ft. Buschur told me along with PTE that the wheel was good for 60lbs/min. I would hope that I was close to maxing it out. This was at 28 psi falling to 25 by redline. Internally gated. Cranking the boost to over 30 didn't net any more horsepower just a really good gain in torque.

To the original poster, please choose carefully. That GT-42 is on the big end of the stick. They make two different compressor wheels. Maybe three, its been a while. An 85lb and 96lb. The exhuast can range from a .96a/r to a 1.55a/r. We went with a 1.15a/r to try to promote spool. So far not a lot of feed back on that as the car has done nothing more than put around the driveway yet. But please note that nitrous is the only way we think it will come alive. This is a 2.0L. Aluminum rod motor.

Sorry to upset some of you, I was just giving my opinion and have ridden and helped tune 2 3065 turbo cars and a 3575 car. They are ballistic. Much quicker and more linear in power than my 60-1. That is why when I purchase a 2G later this year(no dsm right now) I will go huge from the start. I built the car in my profile in just 4 months. I went from stock to that. One thing leads to another you know. But I learned that it is ok to over build a car. No harm in head room. Hence some of the things happening with our 2G drag car.

Once again, didn't mean to upset people. I actually bought the wasegate and hardware for the motor from forced performance as they were cheaper than other vendors and the makers of some of the things couldn't price match. Robert Young is a good man and was very patient with me helping me with the wastegate and turbo choice. We went with a PTE GT-4274 as it was the same price FP quoted. If we have bad luck then we will give the FP GT42-2 a shot.

Steven

 

[sunflashx]

At my altitude, we get about 116 mph out of a 50 trim, 126 mph out of a "GT40/T350" style turbo. 20g's are just a pile and perform pretty much equal to a 16g. Full garrett and bolt ons seem to give the same results. The only guy to break into the 10's did so on a T66.

4200' Real. 7000-11000 corrected according to the local NHRA Drag strip. The correction factor is a bi***.

I feel your pain, Steven.

 

[herostar]

I'm gunna have to back up what BigLady112 says... I've seen the cars. In CO there are some pretty rediculous setups. I though I was cool w/ my 2.3L and 60-1, but I felt like I had minimal mods and power compared to alot of those guys... They just don't show it off all the time and don't do a whole lot of 1/4 mile racing.

 

[XakEp]

I've seen the cars too. If youre running 12s with a 3065, it isnt maxed out.

Edit - let me be a little more clear. You guys are using altitude like a giant catch-all. Those 3065s arent even being used here in COlorado to their max. In 2000 Gabe Massine ran 11s with a 16g and nitrous. Last year another guy ran an 11 with a T25 and a boatload of nitrous. The 4 guys I've seen here with the FP turbos, well... One car never sees the light of day, so I have no idea what it can do. Another had to be trucked to Ohio with slicks to make power. The 3rd is owned by a pathological liar so its hard to believe anything he says, and the 4th is down for a motor rebuild that isnt his fault.

I've seen it all over, you cant just slap a big turbo on and go fast. These guys have the supporting mods, its the loose nut between the steering wheel and the seat. Either tune right or learn how to drive.

And as a preemptive - ETs win races, traps are for people who dont know how to drive.

 

[biglady112]

To give you an idea of the size of these turbos. This is not me by the way. I am not this ugly.

GT-47

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GT-47

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GT-47 vs GT-42

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GT-47 vs PT72

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GT-47 vs Gt-42

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GT-47 vs PT72

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Steven

 

[XakEp]

While I can appreciate those are some awesomely big turbos...

GT47 != FP3065 by a long stretch.

 

[GSX4LIFE]

Biglady, no one is upset about your post. Infact, your oppinion is welcome, and your backup reply was very courteous. I simply have a job to police, if you will, the information here. The "bigger is better" attitude must be tread upon lightly. Otherwise, there is going to be a surge of people buying huge turbos and getting terrible performance(which happens often)

I do like how you mentioned the nitrous with the GT42. I wish you had stressed that more in your first post, but I appreciate your emphasis on it in your last post.

 

[sunflashx]

OK, so I'm running a 2.3 stroked motor with 8.5"1 compression, P&P head with crower stage 3 cams and an EMS. My question is what turbo should I run? I would think that with the added displacement and the cams something like a FP3065 would have too small of a turbine housing. I already have a huge FMIC and hard piping. And big enough fuel lines to run this thing on Alky. Supporting mods is not an issue.

A turbo should be matched from it's cold side to it's hot side. What motor you put it on is mostly irrelevent. The airflow out the hotside is limited by the compressor. On the 2.4L motor you run 20% less psi to get the same airflow. It will move you around a bit on a compressor map, but probably not a significant amount.

I run side by side (other than driving skill) with a 2.0L GT40/T350/.63AR AGP turboed car, with my 2.4L/FP3065 car with me running basicly 20% less psi. For the amount of difference between the cars it seemed like there should be more difference, but there didn't really seem to be.

In answer to your question, I would say from experience that a FP3065 work just fine, and is alot of fun on a 2.3/2.4 motor, especially for a street car, but going a step larger would be ok too.

 

[green92gsx]

I find it vary humorous that Big lady is boosting about all these "big" turbo's. Showing turbo's as big as some guys head with pictures of a supra to go along with it. At the same time only putting down barley 450 whp with no track numbers to even prove it.
Ok, lets step back into reality for one second if we may.
A 96lb per min Gt47 will not have any kind of boost response or re- spool in between shifts for the normal mortal to even put to use. Unless you have a 200+ shot of spray and shift at 10,000+ rpm. Along with world class tuning and experience. In the 4 cylinder 2 liter'ish world that is.

I pulled 123.98mph with a 40lbper min turbo, just to put things into prospective.

 

[wortdog]

Is it possible that this motor has what it takes to spool a t4 before 4000? I'll purhcase a nitrus system if nessasary.

Hi Ryan,

Before 4000 . . . maybe a double BB frame with a T04b 69 trim exhaust wheel and a T04b 63mm compressor wheel, say maybe a 0.63 T4 exhaust housing(if they make those) and a T04e cover. Looking at maxing this turbo out around 650 crank horsepower or so.

Personally, I'd go a step bigger with a T04b 66mm compressor wheel and a T04b P-trim exhaust wheel, or their GT equivalents. Should be good for just shy of 800 crank horsies. Probably won't spool until 4800 or so . .

I don't see a normal T4 spooling before 4000 though, could be wrong.

With nitrous, you can go quite a bit bigger, of course.