What would you do with these motors?

[eeeric16]

Need some advice. I want to do a turbo conversion. I have a complete non turbo 4g63 with 163,000 KM and a complete turbo 4g63 with 200,000 KM. I'm new to the DSM scene, this is my first car, many of you will say sell the NT and buy a turbo, but I want to learn to completely do an engine build.

Which block should I use / have machined?
Should i use the pistons from the turbo with 200k km or buy new forged ones
Basically i need opinions on what is the best way to do this and what is the most economical. I really appreciate any feedback

 

[volcomsnow245]

Here's my opinion use the turbo block buy 2g pistons or evo 8/9 and use the turbo rods and crank. Get arp rod bolts and some acl bearings. Have everything machined and you should be ready to go. You can pick up 2g pistons real cheap. This setup is very good too so you won't need to really upgrade later.
Good luck!

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

I don't know if you've seen this tech article yet but it has a lot of info regarding the swap NT - Turbo swap: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-turbo-system-intercooler/48231-installing-turbo-4g63-into-nt-4g63.html.

I would use whichever block is in the best condition, regardless of whether it's the turbo or non-turbo one. I don't feel that the oil squirters make that big or a difference either way. Are they 6 bolt or 7 bolt blocks?

As far as the pistons, a nice set of forged pistons aren't that expensive. However it depends on your goals. How much power are you planning on making? What are your goals and budget?

 

[delta448]

With all due respect to the Wiseman posting above me, for someone just getting started... this is my personal opinion:

If the turbo engine is a 6 bolt, just check it's compression and perform a leakdown test. If it's healthy, swap it in. If not, you have more to decide:

A non-turbo block with forged internals will probably cost more to build than a turbo block that you just hone cylinders and re-ring. The non-turbo block won't have oil squirters, which you will want if you use cast pistons and press-fit pins. Also the N/T pistons are higher compression and a weaker design, not ideal for boost.

Don't use N/T pistons. Don't skip block prep. Don't reuse cylinder head bolts. Don't reuse gaskets. Don't reuse piston rings.

Do consider replacing bearings. Do install forged internals as money allows. Do take the time to do it right the first time.

 

[eeeric16]

I've been reading alot of the NT to turbo threads/guides, for sure will look for better pistons. I will definitely be replacing all seals/gaskets/rings when this does happen. I believe they are both 6 bolts but i can't guarantee that. Is there a dead simple way to check if they are 6 or 7 without checking on the clutch disc? The non turbo block is in much better shape, I was leaning more to using it because the turbo one was running rough.

Some really good advice already, thanks for your help guys.

 

[avenged5]

I've been reading alot of the NT to turbo threads/guides, for sure will look for better pistons. I will definitely be replacing all seals/gaskets/rings when this does happen. I believe they are both 6 bolts but i can't guarantee that. Is there a dead simple way to check if they are 6 or 7 without checking on the clutch disc? The non turbo block is in much better shape, I was leaning more to using it because the turbo one was running rough.

Some really good advice already, thanks for your help guys.

How to quickly tell a 6bolt and 7bolt engine apart

vfaq.com is your friend.

 

[eeeric16]

How to quickly tell a 6bolt and 7bolt engine apart

vfaq.com is your friend.

Thanks! The non turbo is a 6 bolt and the turbo is a 7. I swapped the turbo transmission into the 6 bolt a couple months back.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

With all due respect to the Wiseman posting above me, for someone just getting started... this is my personal opinion:

If the turbo engine is a 6 bolt, just check it's compression and perform a leakdown test. If it's healthy, swap it in. If not, you have more to decide:

A non-turbo block with forged internals will probably cost more to build than a turbo block that you just hone cylinders and re-ring. The non-turbo block won't have oil squirters, which you will want if you use cast pistons and press-fit pins. Also the N/T pistons are higher compression and a weaker design, not ideal for boost.

Don't use N/T pistons. Don't skip block prep. Don't reuse cylinder head bolts. Don't reuse gaskets. Don't reuse piston rings.

Do consider replacing bearings. Do install forged internals as money allows. Do take the time to do it right the first time.

Zach, I wasn't suggesting that he use the N/T pistons. He asked if he should reuse the turbo pistons or get forged pistons, he never mentioned using N/T pistons. I agree 100% though, do not use N/T pistons in a turbo application. He was asking which block to use, which I took to mean just the block itself. In that case I would still say use the one that is in the best condition, and since it seems that that is the 6 bolt, it would be a no brainer for me, even without the oil squirters.

 

[delta448]

^ 100% Agreed.

Use the N/T block since it's a 6 bolt and in better shape. Oil squirters won't matter if you have forged internals anyway. A good oil cooler will do as much or more than the squirters would've anyway.

Nathan, I had my post typed up and walked away from the computer for a couple of minutes to actually do some work while at work, when I came back and hit reply, you'd already posted. I just ninja'd as best I could without deleting my post.

 

[eeeric16]

Turns out they are both 6 bolts.

 

[mitsubishikid]

Rebuilding a motor requires doing everything in stages,make sure you get a good factory service manual before you start, just take things slow and if in doubt of any matter ,during the build, don't hesitate to ask for help.

Also when you decide to rebuild your motor I'd suggest you ask someone to videotape it, this way you can look back on it, and see if you are doing [or did] anything wrong [or not], and correct it in any future builds.

also if you are looking for a budget price on some forged pistons, I happen to know probe makes a forged set for the six & seven bolt cars, I know a place where you can get them for cheep, how does $324 + s/h a set sound to you
if you want to know who sells em this cheep pm me.

good luck with your build.

 

[goodbuds]

Go npr 2 g pistons, na block and rods. Acl berrings, arp head studs, arp rod bolts. Any machine shop will press fit the pistons onto the rods for 30 a piece.
That will hold 500whp till the cows come home and be done
For about 300 Plus parts.

 

[bryanwheat]

Go npr 2 g pistons, na block and rods. Acl berrings, arp head studs, arp rod bolts. Any machine shop will press fit the pistons onto the rods for 30 a piece.
That will hold 500whp till the cows come home and be done
For about 300 Plus parts.

You have go increase the size of the small end of the rod by 1mm to fit the 2g piston on the 6 bolt rod, and not every machine shop can do that.

 

[goodbuds]

I understand, but some do.. Its a machine shop they get payed to machine what you tell them too. If not ied go to town with my dremil.but its not the same.

 

[bryanwheat]

I understand, but some do.. Its a machine shop they get payed to machine what you tell them too. If not ied go to town with my dremil.but its not the same.

A dremil would in no way work for a piston pin bore. You could get away with a brake wheel cylinder hone, it would just take forever.

 

[goodbuds]

Lol... I was just kidding, I'm sorry. Dont ever try to do any complicated machine work with a dremil guys!
But that would be his cheapest bet. Or swap out the piston rings on the turbo and redo. But thats caca.

 

[bryanwheat]

Lol... I was just kidding, I'm sorry. Dont ever try to do any complicated machine work with a dremil guys!
But that would be his cheapest bet. Or swap out the piston rings on the turbo and redo. But thats caca.

caca?

 

[goodbuds]

It would be to cheap a build for my taste. Its goong to end up costing him 800-1000 and thats if he does all the work himself.
Caca is another way of saying poop.

 

[bryanwheat]

There is noting wrong with re-ringing an engine. You will end up with slightly looser piston to cylinder clearances, that's about it. You will want to make sure everything is in spec of coarse. A basic re-ring will cost you about 100-300 in parts depending on whether or not you need a new oil pump. If you can't hone the block yourself than most machine shops will do it for 40-60.

 

[goodbuds]

your right Bryan, I guess what I'm trying to get at is might as well go that extra step if the engine is apart already. more security

 

[bryanwheat]

This is why you have a good set of mic's and a dial bore gauge to check everything out. IF it is in spec and not damaged there is no need for all new parts.

 

[eeeric16]

Well I've decided i want to bore the N/T block .20 over and go either new forged pistons on the 1G rods or pick up a good set of used pistons on whatever rods. I have yet to check at the local machine shop for prices, but i have all the tools i need for the build, now all i need is the parts. Gotta save some money for a couple months before i can afford it though

 

[volcomsnow245]

Good choice you'll enjoy It if you want to save a little bit of money just get 1g rods on forged pistons.

 

[eeeric16]

Now is it okay to just redo the bottom end like that, and slap the N/T head on as is? It's in great shape, only 160k km on it. I'm just not sure if there's any significant differences between the nt and a turbo head

 

[eeeric16]

just ordered some ARP head studs and rod bolts on sale over at extremepsi. Exactly what bearings do i need to get? ACL main bearings and rod bearings?