What piston rings do i need?

[boost_or_bust]

well i had just rebuilt the motor in my 91 TSI and something went wrong with my rings, car kept smoking alot. so i assume that the rings did not seat right. Anyways i was wondering a few things.....

1. does any one have a 1g/2g combo in there 6 bolts here?
2. and if so what is the part number for the rings you got?
3. what brand of rings are they?
4. Where can i buy them?

I really dont remember what rings i got, so im not even 100% positive that they are the right ones, which could have also been my problem. Any help would be great. i would really like to get my car running again soon.

Thanks In Advance!!
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[TSIfreek]

If the cylinders are not honed corectly the rings wont seat well. Get it honed professionally is the only way to seal rings properly. If you just throw new rings in there its going to smoke again and you will have the problem all over again. Do it right the first time.
Are you asking for the part #s for 2g piston rings?
You can get them from slowboy racing or any other good dsm shop.

 

[boost_or_bust]

when i first built the motor i honed the cyl. and it still messed up. i do have plenty of expereance in building motors. what i was asking was do i need rings for a 6 bolt or do i need rings for the 2g pistons? If im not mistaken i think they are different.

 

[TSIfreek]

You need the rings for the 2g pistons. They maybe diffternt so ask for the 2g pistons rings and the over bore size or standard size pistons you are using. The block doesnt matter.

 

[boost_or_bust]

sweet thats exactly what i wanted to know. i was not sure if the 6bolt and 7 bolt bores were different.

 

[andytalon]

To add to this, so I don't make a new thread. I am accually putting 2g pistons in my 6 bolt. If I bore my cylinders .20 over can I still use the same pistons or does the size of it need to be bigger. Or is it the actual ring size that changes. Sorry to jump in on your thread.

 

[SILV BLT]

To add to this, so I don't make a new thread. I am accually putting 2g pistons in my 6 bolt. If I bore my cylinders .20 over can I still use the same pistons or does the size of it need to be bigger. Or is it the actual ring size that changes. Sorry to jump in on your thread.

You need oversized pistons if you have to bore your cylinders .20 over. If you can get away with just honing your cylinder walls, do that. The only reason you should bore out your cylinders is if theres gouging or if they're too far out of spec to simply be honed.

 

[95blackGsTurbo]

Yes you do need .020" over pistons and rings for 2g pistons. 1g rings won't fit anyways because the oil rings are different. The bores are all the same as the block never really changed dimensions. I had a big problem trying to find rings for my motor that I built because Total Seal misboxed a bunch but you do want the 2g pistons. I would recommend Total Seal if you can afford the extra money. You would be amazed at how clean your oil is in between changes without any combusion getting past the rings and into the pan.

 

[nightspeed87]

2g pistons are going in my 6bolt engine im going to be dropping in soon, so you say get some total seal rings for those 2g pistons? Is there a good link anyone can direct me to or anything ? Now you say honining of the cylinder is necessary to make perfect compression so the rings seal properly, because i want to get every percent of compression as i can...

 

[groundPork]

You know why I love this forum?... cause I have called myself an engine builder all these years, I started hanging around with NMCA/PSCA drage racers and nostalgia drag racers and realised just how little I knew. Matter of fact... every time I think I learned somthing I realize i know know less... weird but true. and once you let go you';ll learn tons more!

You generally have about .003 - .007" outside of the specified ring's bore size before you either buckle the ring cause the bores too small or loose tension cause it's too large.

What I will say for your situation because I do not know for sure is this.... Piston ring back clearance (from ring back to groove root) is ver important. For the top compression ring if there is not enough the piston can expand under heat to the point that it forces the ring to score the cylinder. if it is too much clearance it can allow the ring to flutter and not seal propperly.

Now... if you cannot measure the groove width and depth acurately then send it to total seal, and order a set of rings. if you can... THEN FRIGGEN CALL YOUR NEAREST MISTU PARTS DEALER AND ORDER A SET OF RINGS (HELL, they can sell you the right set by the year, make and model most of the time)...

So... stop clogging the forum with questions that can be answered by local dealerships and think for yourself!.. Best advice i could give... Think!

 

[nightspeed87]

well actually a lot of the mitsu dealer guys are not very cooperative when it comes to things like swaps, and piston change overs and high performance and most of the time they just give you a general answer because one.. they dont build perfect race engines, and/ or two because they dont care to make your car any faster and pretty much perfer everyone to leave it all within stock specs as it was on the dealer lot, and the ones who do help may not answer your question the way you are looking for because they ve never done it themselves, or dont recommend what your doing. .. So therefore a lot of the desired answers in performance would be better earned from ppl who ve actually persued the routes were taking with our dsms and that is with in ppl that care to help others make their cars faster and have experience with building faster engines.

 

[nightspeed87]

for my car ( im putting in used 2g pistons ) and I was thinking of ordering some 2g JE pistons rings to go with the 2g pistons Im putting in my 1g. ( no overbore or nothing ) is this a good idea, using them on stock piston set up. ( I suppose the JE's are forged, the automotive engineer guy was saying that there stronger or something, I have no idea though? )

 

[groundPork]

well actually a lot of the mitsu dealer guys are not very cooperative when it comes to things like swaps, and piston change overs and high performance and most of the time they just give you a general answer because one.. they dont build perfect race engines, and/ or two because they dont care to make your car any faster and pretty much perfer everyone to leave it all within stock specs as it was on the dealer lot, and the ones who do help may not answer your question the way you are looking for because they ve never done it themselves, or dont recommend what your doing. .. So therefore a lot of the desired answers in performance would be better earned from ppl who ve actually persued the routes were taking with our dsms and that is with in ppl that care to help others make their cars faster and have experience with building faster engines.

These are statments I am all to familiar with, and agree with most. Heres where he's going tohave a problem... He's gonna call some aftermarket pistons manufacturer, and their not gonna wanna take the time to find a set of rings for his piston. Cause they won't know what the OEM ring set is, and they would rather hang up on him and take a call for a guy who wants to spend $400 bucks or $1000 bucks on pistons. Cause he only wants to buy a ring set they don't carry for $100. They do not have every record for every pistons exact dimentions from OEM in the world, and it take a lot of time to find out what those numbers are.

Here's why I say to order from a Mitsu dealer. You can usually get the VIN off the block or force them to find the car by year and model and trim level. Tell them you want the piston rings only. NOw if they can't get it right, or you flat out just don't feel they're trust worthy, send your piston to total seal to have them measure your pistons and supply you with a set to match. They won't be made by NPR or RIKEN but they'll be just as good.

Now, if you can't do any of that, find guys that sell new oem 2G pistons, and see if they can spare a set of new rings. I think SBR, RRR, or maybe BUscher.

I wouldn't waste my time with JE, they will not want to talk to you.

I understand about the whole pioneering thing about the DSM's... Ido it everyday. But Like I always say, if we listen, leanr, have an open mind... we will learn much faster and more than our 8 cylinder toting predisesours. Trust me... you'll cover no new ground accept your own personal realization that aftermarket piston manufactuers do not welcome orders for single piston ring sets for EOM pistons. Yes it's a little agravating to deal with a lot of Dealership parts guys, cause they DO NOT know what you (often what they) are talking about. But Realize you know what you need, search the forum for guys who have bought new if necessary and ask for part numbers. But if you persist in a single phone call, you can usually get the dealership parts guy to crack and sell you what you need.

 

[nightspeed87]

These are statments I am all to familiar with, and agree with most. Heres where he's going tohave a problem... He's gonna call some aftermarket pistons manufacturer, and their not gonna wanna take the time to find a set of rings for his piston. Cause they won't know what the OEM ring set is, and they would rather hang up on him and take a call for a guy who wants to spend $400 bucks or $1000 bucks on pistons. Cause he only wants to buy a ring set they don't carry for $100. They do not have every record for every pistons exact dimentions from OEM in the world, and it take a lot of time to find out what those numbers are.

Here's why I say to order from a Mitsu dealer. You can usually get the VIN off the block or force them to find the car by year and model and trim level. Tell them you want the piston rings only. NOw if they can't get it right, or you flat out just don't feel they're trust worthy, send your piston to total seal to have them measure your pistons and supply you with a set to match. They won't be made by NPR or RIKEN but they'll be just as good.

Now, if you can't do any of that, find guys that sell new oem 2G pistons, and see if they can spare a set of new rings. I think SBR, RRR, or maybe BUscher.

I wouldn't waste my time with JE, they will not want to talk to you.

I understand about the whole pioneering thing about the DSM's... Ido it everyday. But Like I always say, if we listen, leanr, have an open mind... we will learn much faster and more than our 8 cylinder toting predisesours. Trust me... you'll cover no new ground accept your own personal realization that aftermarket piston manufactuers do not welcome orders for single piston ring sets for EOM pistons. Yes it's a little agravating to deal with a lot of Dealership parts guys, cause they DO NOT know what you (often what they) are talking about. But Realize you know what you need, search the forum for guys who have bought new if necessary and ask for part numbers. But if you persist in a single phone call, you can usually get the dealership parts guy to crack and sell you what you need.

yea i hear you... so from your own opinion you say dont mess with JE
and look for SBR, RRR, or Buscher huh.... Im looking for the most durable tried and true, best compression holding rings for the oem 2g pistons and you think JE will not have any for stock 2g pistons and stock bore size? The guy at this place called automotive engineer that gets performance parts that I called today said he can get some JE's for 100 dollars or something? Is that a good price, does it sound like trouble ( as far as mixing aftermarket rings with stock piston set ups_)

 

[groundPork]

yea i hear you... so from your own opinion you say dont mess with JE
and look for SBR, RRR, or Buscher huh.... Im looking for the most durable tried and true, best compression holding rings for the oem 2g pistons and you think JE will not have any for stock 2g pistons and stock bore size? The guy at this place called automotive engineer that gets performance parts that I called today said he can get some JE's for 100 dollars or something? Is that a good price, does it sound like trouble ( as far as mixing aftermarket rings with stock piston set ups_)

Just to be clear, I did not say that any of JE's rings were not good or that they did not have rings in stock that could potentially fit a stock 2G piston. I said when you (the general consumer) call and try to get them to first find out which dimensions are needed for an OEM piston, then have them write you up an order, you'll likely meet resistance, and in my experience sometimes, they will stone wall you so they don't have to spend the time. I'm not being negative, just honest. They sell some of the best rings, but then they're about as good as stock. I'm not really sure if the guys I mentioned acutally sell stock pistons and rings, I mearly suggested it because you would think if they sold the piston they might have the new rings sets too.

Not everyone has the same experience with piston manufacturers as me, but I know many who have, just trying to save you guys some footwork that usually leads no where.

The ideal turbo ring to me is usually 1.2 mm chromed stainless top, cast 1.5 mm second, and 3mm oil ring.

 

[nightspeed87]

ok ill keep that in mind