What internals to make 350 HP daily driver?

[gsxkid]

Well I have been reading ALOT for the last week on these 420a motors. I had a 92 gsx before and I loved the boost. So heres the deal If I set this thing up for 5 or 6psi I am just gonna end up turning it up until it blows. So I would rather just build the bottom end first and then go from there. I dont wanna be buying all new parts later when I am not happy with the 6 psi. I have an explorer and an r6 so any down time I am not to worried about.

So I guess my question would be what internals to reach 350hp with a 420a motor?

 

[Blitzeclips]

Well I have been reading ALOT for the last week on these 420a motors. I had a 92 gsx before and I loved the boost. So heres the deal If I set this thing up for 5 or 6psi I am just gonna end up turning it up until it blows. So I would rather just build the bottom end first and then go from there. I dont wanna be buying all new parts later when I am not happy with the 6 psi. I have an explorer and an r6 so any down time I am not to worried about.

So I guess my question would be what internals to reach 350hp with a 420a motor?

Try HowellAutomotive.com. They make 2.0L fully rebuilt blocks, bottom ends, and even crate motors. They also make a 2.2L stroker. Took them 14-16 weeks to make mine. Probably longer then usual but I didn't care. Can't rush things that important.

You need to search more. This is all over the forum.

 

[gsxkid]

Yeah I was searching 350 build and stuff like that but got nothing . I tried searching rebuild and I am getting some stuff now. Btw I think I would rather buy indivdual parts than buy a kit. I was hoping to do the build myself. I was wondering what I needed to build a 350 hp motor? Should I stroke it or is that not neccasary?

 

[1slow97]

Strokeing it is really not neccasary, but it is nice..

 

[bullettdsm]

Yeah I was searching 350 build and stuff like that but got nothing . I tried searching rebuild and I am getting some stuff now. Btw I think I would rather buy indivdual parts than buy a kit. I was hoping to do the build myself. I was wondering what I needed to build a 350 hp motor? Should I stroke it or is that not neccasary?

IMO no need for stroke.

Good for you for putting it together yourself. As for the internals, basically, just a couple of things. Some sort of forged piston. I recommend JE's. Various comps out there. Howell does some 9.0's, but I would steer clear of them. I'm not afraid of high comp + turbo so I would go 10.5 JE's. I believe most people like the 8.8's (or is it 8.7? Do a quick search on that) for turbo. We are of course 9.6 comp stock.

As for the rods, I believe that our stockers would have no problem with around 350whp. BUT, I have never done it with our rods and IF I was to go turbo, I would still go with at least eagle rods to be on the safe side . Are you gutsy enough to test the waters?

As for HG, any good MLS will do.

Everything else is basically normal rebuild stuff. Though I would definitely think about opening those tiny ass exhaust ports up on the head.

MB

 

[Slippi84]

you'll find out fast you will have a easy time finding stuff. I have a basic built engine nothing crazy that will hold 500hp easy but the hard part is making that much power. Tuning will be key being able to run that much boost with a built engine or not is all on a/f ratio timing advance and egts. Research portfueler and Megasquirt you'll see what I mean.

 

[gsxkid]

So this is what I have come up with for the bottom end so far.Tell me what you think.Anything need to be done to the crank? Whats a good machine shop near Boston to get my block hot tanked, bored,honed and decked? And any suggestions on the head
as far as parts and what to get done for machine work?

JE pistons 8.6-1
Eagle Rods
ARP main stud kit
Clevite p series main and rod bearings
Melling high volume oil pump

 

[Slippi84]

So this is what I have come up with for the bottom end so far.Tell me what you think.Anything need to be done to the crank? Whats a good machine shop near Boston to get my block hot tanked, bored,honed and decked? And any suggestions on the head
as far as parts and what to get done for machine work?

JE pistons 8.6-1
Eagle Rods
ARP main stud kit
Clevite p series main and rod bearings
Melling high volume oil pump

Arp head studs,MLS HG (I just used a Permadry Plus from felpro HS9922 I think is the kit number) You can have the crank polished or shaved or whatever but the stocker will be fine unless yoru trying to go stroker other than that your on the right track. I'm warning you now though unless you want to be disapointed start looking into tuning options that are available for the 420a engine. It's not as easy as drop 600 get dsmlink and set it up and drive either.

 

[bullettdsm]

Arp head studs,MLS HG (I just used a Permadry Plus from felpro HS9922 I think is the kit number) ........... I'm warning you now though unless you want to be disapointed start looking into tuning options that are available for the 420a engine.

It pains me to agree, but he is correct


MB

 

[gsxkid]

Holy shit thats all I have to say. I have been reading and reading and that Megasquirt sounds real complicated.

 

[bullettdsm]

Holy shit thats all I have to say. I have been reading and reading and that Megasquirt sounds real complicated.

Heh heh, keep reading and re-reading. It does start to make sense. Thumb through this components installation. It may help you "position" information;

2GNT.com -!)

You can get the MSnS ECU in various states of completion. You can even get it completely built with sensors and and harness.

It does take sum learnin'

MB

 

[Slippi84]

Holy shit thats all I have to say. I have been reading and reading and that Megasquirt sounds real complicated.

Like I said not like dsmlink . I personally will never go MSnS just because it looks way to complicated for my likings and the portfueler takes care of two bird with one stone(Fuel and Tuning)

 

[gsxkid]

That portfueler is looking better and better the more I read. I am thinking the portfueler and some wideband setup. I just gotta do some research on the widebands.

 

[gsxkid]

I am thinking portfuler and a Zeitronix wideband. With a pocketlogger to read the logs on the Zeitronix. Only thing is how would I advance timing if need be. I havent read anything that says it can be monitored or advanced with the portfueler or the Zeitronix wideband. Unless I missed something. Tuning is pretty much new to me so sorry if its been asked . I am only in the beginning stages of doing research on this so dont jump down my throat.

 

[Slippi84]

I am thinking portfuler and a Zeitronix wideband. With a pocketlogger to read the logs on the Zeitronix. Only thing is how would I advance timing if need be. I havent read anything that says it can be monitored or advanced with the portfueler or the Zeitronix wideband. Unless I missed something. Tuning is pretty much new to me so sorry if its been asked . I am only in the beginning stages of doing research on this so dont jump down my throat.

You will more than likely have to retard timing not advance it to get a good tune. I would research loggers too I don't know how compatible they are. I know it's the thing with 4g63 ecu's but I'm not sure about 420a ecu's. Your right portfueler is fuel only. That's why people bite the bullet and go MSnS but to some the ability to mess with timing just isn't worth it. You could look into e-manage. There's a guy on here that figured out how to timing control to work but it wasn't anything easy he like customized his intire ignition setup to send a signal instead of grounding out. Search and you shall find

 

[crab1092]

The portfueler can and does make power. Even though i have made a decent amount of power with mine i say that megasquirt is better. Since the portfueler has no input besides boost and rpm it doesnt self correct at all. So when the temp changes or i change fuel or for reasons I have yet to figure out, my AFR's shift either rich or lean. Even if you get megasquirt you do not have to use it to control timing, just use it to control fuel if you want.

After helping my friend set his up on his 240, i wont say that it was easy, because it wasnt, but once you just start doing it things start to make sense. It was very intimidating at first but there is enough support out there to help you out.

 

[Slippi84]

The portfueler can and does make power. Even though i have made a decent amount of power with mine i say that megasquirt is better. Since the portfueler has no input besides boost and rpm it doesnt self correct at all. So when the temp changes or i change fuel or for reasons I have yet to figure out, my AFR's shift either rich or lean. Even if you get megasquirt you do not have to use it to control timing, just use it to control fuel if you want.

After helping my friend set his up on his 240, i wont say that it was easy, because it wasnt, but once you just start doing it things start to make sense. It was very intimidating at first but there is enough support out there to help you out.

Just to clarify MSnS does not adjust to changes in the temp either. Tuning by load(boost) is actually the best way to tune vs rpm or time act.. Turbo guys would kill for something like portfueler as the closest thing is Maft Pro but it doesn't supply anymore fuel. Hmm that makes me think I wonder id Maft v2 would work with our cars? That was gonna be my next mod on my tsi before I sold it. Maft v2 can be hooked up to a wideband and does real time adjustments to keep the a/f ratio at a certain point which is whatever you set it at. Problem is our cars use Map sensors and IATs not MAFs.

 

[Slo2gen]

MSnS does have something called EGO control which does make minor adjustments to the fuel map because of changes in temp and such, but if you live in a state where is gets really cold during the winter and really hot during the summer you still might need two different maps.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

MSnS-E does adjust to changes in both the air temperature and engine coolant temperature. With a secondary MAP sensor, it can even make real-time changes to the ambient barometric pressure. With a good tune, there's no reason why you should ever have to switch maps.

 

[Slo2gen]

Yeah, your right, I just guess I forgot because I haven't got to use EGO correctly, it always cycles betweetn 13 and 21 afrs. I turn EGO off and it stays around 13.5 afr? O well, i'll see how the new board does with older firmware and see if it is any better.

 

[gsxkid]

Seems like it might be better to just go with the MS. Looks like I am back to researching them.

 

[gsxkid]

Well it looks like megasquirt is the only way to go from what I have read tonight. I read the DIY build manual, and yeah it looks like I will just buy the preassembled one. I want to get the MSnS version but wich one is that? People were saying go with Megasquirt 1 with the 3.0 version on it. But I dont see anything about MSnS? And do I need the relay board aswell? I will do some more reading after work tommorow. Feel free to answer any of my questions. Thanks for the help everyone

 

[Slippi84]

MSnS-E does adjust to changes in both the air temperature and engine coolant temperature. With a secondary MAP sensor, it can even make real-time changes to the ambient barometric pressure. With a good tune, there's no reason why you should ever have to switch maps.

OK I was talking in base mode not including the secondary map sensor. Paul knows an infinate more about MSnS then I do so i'll take his word on the abilities on MSnS as last time I even tried to research it my computer almost overheated from too much info. j/k

 

[bullettdsm]

I very familiar with both of these gentlemen;

Talon ESI-T and VelocitàPaola

Either one should be able to help you out with a complete unit.

You're in Mass, eh? That's cool because if you need someone to tune for you, one of the best MSnS guys is in Norwood Mass. Matt at Dentsport (yeah, shameless plug but true). I am running MSnS 1 v2.0.

MB