? what do you perf. gm maf/ or 2g maf and afc 2

[HighPSI TSi Guy]

Originally posted by d_tsiawd
hey hipsi gotta question for you i have a 2g mas with all honeycombs out i know its bad but i bought it with 2 missing anyways so i took them all out and i am going to have 780cc with an rs60 from agp turbo i was wondering if the turbo would max out the mas. i have the odler gen safc and my fuel settings are off the chart i think i have a leak somewhere but i was just curious if it wa spossible of maxing out the mas let mek now thanks

uhh... you took ALL of them out? if you take out the middle ones the car probably won't even run.. i doubt you can max out a 2G MAF with a 60 trim.. you may have to run it with 1 or 2 honeycombs missing, but you can do it... run as many honeycombs as you can get away with actually being there..

 

[d_tsiawd]

yeah i did take them all out and it seems to run fine my safc is at like +47% for 1000 rpm i had the middles ones in but what i theorized was that since the middle part is what reads the air, the honeycomb infront of it was causing the air to go around the middle and through the sides and bottome due to less resistance i am not sure if this is true but i asked a few people and they said running with none is better than with just the middle ones

 

[LandoAWD]

Originally posted by d_tsiawd
yeah i did take them all out and it seems to run fine my safc is at like +47% for 1000 rpm i had the middles ones in but what i theorized was that since the middle part is what reads the air, the honeycomb infront of it was causing the air to go around the middle and through the sides and bottome due to less resistance i am not sure if this is true but i asked a few people and they said running with none is better than with just the middle ones

If you throw a period and some commas in there, that would almost be legible.

Lets try and act like we went to, or are going to, school.

 

[HighPSI TSi Guy]

Originally posted by d_tsiawd
yeah i did take them all out and it seems to run fine my safc is at like +47% for 1000 rpm i had the middles ones in but what i theorized was that since the middle part is what reads the air, the honeycomb infront of it was causing the air to go around the middle and through the sides and bottome due to less resistance i am not sure if this is true but i asked a few people and they said running with none is better than with just the middle ones

i honestly don't think it will be possible to tune a car like that.. not well at least.. having never even heard of anyone doing that before i can't really say i have any idea what advice to give you

 

[Talonman]

On the subject of maft's:
If I buy one and use it as a pull thru in the stock location on my stock 14b and stock 450cc injectors is there a "stock" setting that will just send the same signals to ecu that my stock 1G mas did? I have a 90 awd, 1G mas, screw backed out, both screens still installed. I want to keep good idle and part throttle driveablility like stock but want to eliminate fuel cut that Im hitting at 18psi.

Thanks.

 

[HighPSI TSi Guy]

Originally posted by Talonman
On the subject of maft's:
If I buy one and use it as a pull thru in the stock location on my stock 14b and stock 450cc injectors is there a "stock" setting that will just send the same signals to ecu that my stock 1G mas did? I have a 90 awd, 1G mas, screw backed out, both screens still installed. I want to keep good idle and part throttle driveablility like stock but want to eliminate fuel cut that Im hitting at 18psi.

Thanks.

fuel cut is ECU code, changing the MAS isn't going to change that

 

[99gst_racer]

Originally posted by HighPSI TSi Guy
fuel cut is ECU code, changing the MAS isn't going to change that

Right, but cant you modify the MAS or it's signal so it "lies" to the ECU to avoid fuel cut..... I think that's what Talonman was wanting to do....

 

[HighPSI TSi Guy]

Originally posted by 99gst_racer
Right, but cant you modify the MAS or it's signal so it "lies" to the ECU to avoid fuel cut..... I think that's what Talonman was wanting to do....

yeah but then the car wouldn't be tuned properly... the only way to do it that way would be to get larger injectors too

 

[kpt4321]

Originally posted by BAD-TSi
OK genius, understand me here. I'm running the MAFT setup to replace my 1G MAS, not to tune my car. Tuning with it is a poochscrew from what I hear EVERYWHERE. So I will still be relying on my S-AFC. And I would never even THINK to take it out of my car, thats just stupid. Why would you want LESS tunability in your car?? Honestly.

You heard that everywhere? Or, maybe you just heard that here, in the land of wives-tales and crappy internet rumors. You probably read it in the thread about how engines need backpressure.

I'm telling you that I have firsthand experience tuning the MAFT with and without a SAFC. The car runs just as well as it did with the SAFC without it, possibly better.

I know what I'm doing. My car went 108 mph last year on the 14b, stock SMIC, 450 cc/min injectors, and the stock intercooler piping. 3250 pounds race weight. If that doesn't mean I know how to tune, I don't know what does.

And about the wideband...Yeah shure the guys back-in-the-day weren't using widebands and the cars were makin power, but not as mutch as they could have been with a wideband. But what I'm really curious to know is, what IS better than a wideband in your opinion?? A autometer A/F gauge??

The claim made by the person you orignally quoted was that the wideband was the "end all" of tuning, and that people who were tuning without them "weren't really tuning."

My points were twofold:

1. Widebands are only a very recent thing, so that means that in the past people either "were not really tuning" (which is obviously not the case) or they were really tuning without a wideband.

2. If you have a choice of only one tuning tool (wideband, logger, AF gauge, EGT gauge, etc) then the logger is going to be a better choice than the wideband. That mean that the wideband must not be the "end all" for tuning.

I never said anything bad about widebands. They are an AWESOME tool. The point was that you do NOT need one to "really tune," and that they are not the "be all, end all" of tuning.

 

[kpt4321]

Originally posted by HighPSI TSi Guy
i never said the MAFT was crap, i am not "trying to put down a good product" i just said it was not as good of a tuning device as you seem to think it is. the SAFC has more points and is more precise. the MAFT is NOT precise enough.. yes, it is good enough to get a decent tune but to get a GOOD tune you need more. the knobs are 3 or 5% each click if i remember correctly, which is just not close enough.. 5% is huge.

enough to run the car but not enough to tune WELL. that is my opinion.

I've heard this one a million times. I don't care that your opinion is that a MAFT isn't enough to tune a car well. I have FIRSTHAND EVIDENCE that it IS ENOUGH. That is my whole point. You're sitting there telling me that it doesn't work, and I was out driving my car around proving that it sure as hell does.

as for the VPC arguement... you can't outflow a VPC and i'll leave it at that. if you can find a way to outflow an empty pipe i'd like to see it. cost is not the issue and i never considered it to be a part of the arguement.

Please quote me where I said that you can outflow a VPC. I said that it stops reporting airflow after around 1800-2000 Hz, which is a pretty well known fact.

there is a good reason everyone usually switches to MAP based setups when they go standalone.

Because a PROPERLY BUILT speed-density system is the best kind of engine management, maybe?

However, we're not talking about standalones, we're not talking about whether speed-density of MAF is better, and we're not talking about a properly built speed density system. Your arguement is irrelevent.

and if you go back and read you'll find your buddy mr. raptor was the one that started the personal attacks

I don't care who started them. You are partaking in it, and I am not. It is that simple.

and a 14b is a slow turbo.

Is that so?

How fast have you gone on a 14b?

Mid 12's at over 110 mph, which is not that difficult for the 14b to attain, is NOT SLOW.

My car and a friend's car both ran mid/high 12's on the 14b, with the stock SMIC and 450's still in place.

It's not a slow turbo.

And, who the hell cares anyway? Since I'm beating you in every other argument, you felt the need to say I don't know what I am doing because I'm still using a 14b? That sounds like BS to me.

 

[nine5raptor]

Originally posted by HighPSI TSi Guy
please fool

I don't believe I was the one that started the attacks...

Moving onward;

"Originally posted by d_tsiawd
yeah i did take them all out and it seems to run fine my safc is at like +47% for 1000 rpm i had the middles ones in but what i theorized was that since the middle part is what reads the air, the honeycomb infront of it was causing the air to go around the middle and through the sides and bottome due to less resistance i am not sure if this is true but i asked a few people and they said running with none is better than with just the middle ones "

Actually, the middle honeycombs are needed to straighten the airflow for the vortices to properly form. Without these, the meter has no way of accurately 'counting' the air. If you still have the honeycombs, put them back in. Your ecu will love you for it.

 

[HighPSI TSi Guy]

Originally posted by kpt4321
send me the WHAAAAAAMBULANCE

whatever you gotta tell yourself. maybe one day i'll be famous on a web forum and be as cool as you.. until then, i'll stick to making cars go fast

i obviously don't know anything since i have less posts than you. john shepherd probably sucks too because he doesn't post enough, and he has to use a big turbo to go fast. and the VPC sucks so much it could only meter enough air to go 8s and faster

i'm done with this thread. i can't take reading this stupidity any longer.

and i had the fastest 14b on a sunday while eating arby's curly fries during rush hour. damn that 14b is tight yo.

maybe we can meet and have a civil conversation at the shootout, i'll look for you in the slow bracket.

 

[nine5raptor]

 

[BAD-TSi]

Originally posted by kpt4321
You heard that everywhere? Or, maybe you just heard that here, in the land of wives-tales and crappy internet rumors. You probably read it in the thread about how engines need backpressure.

Yeah, the same kinda rumors you start.

Honestly, you took out your S-AFC man, thats just stupid. Why would you want to have LESS tunability on your car??

And is the MAFT is soooo great like you claim, why are they releasing this "improved" version all of a sudden??

 

[nine5raptor]

Originally posted by BAD-TSi
And is the MAFT is soooo great like you claim, why are they releasing this "improved" version all of a sudden??

All of a sudden? Updating software after users have had it for over a year just seems like good business practice to me. Listening to the customer and catering to their specific needs should be the heart of any custom car parts manufacturer. Mike Licht has done a great job of this.

 

[jake98gst]

Originally posted by BAD-TSi
Yeah, the same kinda rumors you start.

Go back to hike skool.

Honestly, you took out your S-AFC man, thats just stupid. Why would you want to have LESS tunability on your car??

Why would it be so stupid to get rid of something you don't use. You must have missed KPTs point, over and over. He pointed out that using the SAFC was redundant and unnecessary to his setup; he tuned his car closed to perfect without even touching the SAFC. He didn't lose tunability but rather a stupid box that he didn't use.

And is the MAFT is soooo great like you claim, why are they releasing this "improved" version all of a sudden??

nine5raptor already answered this comment. But by this logic every time a product is improved, it's because something was wrong with it. You're kidding right?

 

[kpt4321]

Originally posted by HighPSI TSi Guy
whatever you gotta tell yourself. maybe one day i'll be famous on a web forum and be as cool as you.. until then, i'll stick to making cars go fast

i obviously don't know anything since i have less posts than you. john shepherd probably sucks too because he doesn't post enough, and he has to use a big turbo to go fast.

Can someone please quote me where I said he didn't know anything, or where I mentioned the post count matters?

I never said either of those things. Apparently you need to make up statements so that you have something to whine about?

and the VPC sucks so much it could only meter enough air to go 8s and faster

Just because it ran 8's doesn't mean it was designed well.

The hacked 1g MAF has run 10's. Is a hacked 1g MAF designed well? Hell no.

The GM Powerglide 2-speed has also run 8's. Maybe you should put one on your car then, huh?

Just because a race car uses something, doesn't make it a good choice.

There are a LOT of FWD Honda running faster than BR... does that means that they have a superior drivetrain, since they are faster?

The list goes on. You can't justify using things just because someone went fast with them.

If anyone wants to discuss WHY the engineers who designed the VPC were smoking crack, start another thread. I'm not going to get into that here.

i'm done with this thread. i can't take reading this stupidity any longer.

Since it is mainly coming from you, leaving won't let you get away from it.

Oops, there was personal insult number one. Sorry, it slipped.

and i had the fastest 14b on a sunday while eating arby's curly fries during rush hour. damn that 14b is tight yo.

1. You evaded my question AGAIN. I don't know why I even bother asking them, because you obviously are not going to answer. I asked you how fast you had gone on a 14b, is it that hard for you to remember?

2. That was just dumb.

maybe we can meet and have a civil conversation at the shootout, i'll look for you in the slow bracket.

You're right, I sure as hell am not fast enough to win the shootout.

Can someone please explain to me how that is relevant to....anything?

 

[kpt4321]

Originally posted by BAD-TSi
Yeah, the same kinda rumors you start.

Honestly, you took out your S-AFC man, thats just stupid. Why would you want to have LESS tunability on your car??

And is the MAFT is soooo great like you claim, why are they releasing this "improved" version all of a sudden??

I was going to own you, but its already been done. Thanks nine5raptor and Jake.

You are even less competent at making a point than highpsitsiguy. Please stop trying.

 

[nineD5_GS-T]

Lets put it this way. What is the fastest car that has solely been tuned on a MAFT-logger. And what is the fastest car that has solely been tuned on a afc/2g MAS/logger. Hrmmmm.

Dave is right, none of you can open your eyes and see how easy going fast is.

 

[jake98gst]

Originally posted by nineD5_GS-T
Lets put it this way. What is the fastest car that has solely been tuned on a MAFT-logger. And what is the fastest car that has solely been tuned on a afc/2g MAS/logger. Hrmmmm.

We have to take into account the length of time each has been out. There are people out there that are the 3rd owner of a certain AFC. These things have been all over the DSM community for the better part of a decade. Of course there are more people going fast with the AFC as opposed to the MAFT. But why? The MAFT is a relatively new product with not nearly as much circulation as the AFC. This is one huge variable that severly skews your comparison.

 

[kpt4321]

Originally posted by nineD5_GS-T
Lets put it this way. What is the fastest car that has solely been tuned on a MAFT-logger. And what is the fastest car that has solely been tuned on a afc/2g MAS/logger. Hrmmmm.

Dave is right, none of you can open your eyes and see how easy going fast is.

What do you mean "see how easy going fast is."

Is the MAFT more difficult than the 2g MAS and a SAFC? I'd say it's easier.

Second of all, what is the fastest car running a 2g MAS and a SAFC?

The fastest pump gas run EVER MADE on a DSM, as far as I know (11.5) was made with a MAFT. I think I just threw your theory out the widnow.

And I know for a fact that at least one person is deep into the tens with a translator.

Besides, here is another reson your arguement is null: the hacked 1g MAF has gone 10's. If the only thing that matters is how fast something has gone, then why are all these people getting rid of a part that is capable of 10's?

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

I'm not evern trying to clean this mess up.

Thread closed.