What are the limits without tuning?

[killer1GDSM]

Ok, well after almost a year of having my car and being a part of this great forum. I have decided to do a sort of, im sure not unknown, but rarely used idea.

I want to push the limits of the 1st gen fwd eclipse, WITHOUT TUNNING.
Yes you read it right. I see almost every post on this forum eventuly has the word or words "time for dsmlink", or " you need to get a way of tunning". Which is great and yes any car with more than stock anything should probably have some sort of aftermarket tunning, but really, Does the 1g need dsmlink to produce simi-big horsepower? Thats what i want to find out.

So with all that said I am asking for members of the sight who have done something of the same concept or in the same area of what i want to accomplish, or who at least have been around DSM's for more than a few weeks. so to start of with one question.

What are the limits of a 1g without tuning?

I am going to compile all the data I receive from anyone who post on this thread and put it all in a single thread somewhere eventually and go from there.

Thanks all in advance, Dustin.

p.s. I made this a long winded post to weed out anyone who doesnt want to read, which hopefully allow the people who do read it post accuratly as possable.

 

[95talongirl]

My great great great grandfather was supossedly a 'Computer technition' and assistant to director of research and development for DSM. I found this out last week when I looked into my family history for a college term paper. Dont even start with saying bs ither becasue I know you will go there. I have or will have as soon as they are released to me, documents of his employment.

Sorry, but I have to call BS on this, as the DSM was not around in the first half of the 1900's. Unless your family has children at a very young age, or he was working with Mitsubishi or Chrysler earlier on? If your great, great, great grandfather worked on the DSM, that would have been in the 80's sometime. So about 30 years ago? Just doesn't make sense.

Are you sure he wasn't involved with DSM, as in this: Diagnostic and Statistical Manual

or this company (been around since 1902):
DSM - About DSM - DSM history timeline

 

[Colt4G63 also]

Also keep in mind that these cars are distubutor-less, so you cannot even play with the timing that way.

I'm pretty sure we're talking about a 1g, so the distributor (cam sensor) can be turned to adjust timing. However, wether it's turning the cam sensor, or re-burning the eprom, that would still be considered tuning.


@OP:
I remember reading articles back in the day, (when your great great great grandfather had just designed the platform 20 years ago), companies with deep pockets were doing big things with this brand new platform. They used piggyback systems and a fuel pressure booster to make a whopping 250 at the crank. Still considered tuning, just more archaic. I still have the Motor Trend issue by the way.

I also have one of those old school HKS metal cans that you can put your 1g MAF into. It has a crappy foam mushroom filter that I'm convinced is more of a restriction than the stock paper element.

 

[josh1095]

OP:
without tuning, my advice would be ported o2 and turbo, bigger exhaust, hard IC piping, bov.
and if you want to be technical, WITHOUT a tune u could go higher compression pistons which, in theory, should make more horspower. obviously everyone else here is right and the only way tyo make any real power is link or tuning.. sorry

, just read the "great great grandfather thing" .

 

[laser90]

What more do you want? Habitat told you he trapped 114 and thats good for low 12s high 11s. I personally went 13.4@106 on stock computer, injectors, FMIC, open down pipe on a small 16g on 15psi.

 

[dsmlover07]

Ok well tune your car for your goals if not leave it as is, kinda up to you, never heard of a limit when tuning your car, or i can push it just a bit more before something breaks! I dont see you getting the answer your looking for.

 

[MY1GDSM]

Anyone else missing the point?

Its like asking how far can you can make it without your lug nuts Tightened down it really depends but in the end.
What's the point?

If your modifying your car you should be doing the same to the Tune an as said before your Limit is going to always be fuel cut regardless of what you do to avoid it.......

 

[JusMX141]

Without tuning your limit is the end of your stock injectors' potential.

The reason people are telling you to buy ECMLink is at some point you're going to run out of fuel and need larger injectors...and larger injectors require tuning. You can do as someone suggested above and use 550's with a 2G MAS and no tune, but this isn't exactly a great idea as you can't clean up your low-throttle AFR's so you'll likely be rich at idle and while cruising.

 

[Tyeler18]

No no no, my goal is to bring as much out of the stock computer system, dsm wouldnt have put it in there cars if it wasnt capable of great things. I just want to prove that it doesnt take dsmlink, aem, or any standalones to make a 1g or even 2g's for this matter, to make more than stock hp or torc and even greater drivabilty without stock parts and no tuning. I guess I will go ahead and tell you all now so you know my reasons behind this,
My great great great grandfather was supossedly a 'Computer technition' and assistant to director of research and development for DSM. I found this out last week when I looked into my family history for a college term paper. Dont even start with saying bs ither becasue I know you will go there. I have or will have as soon as they are released to me, documents of his employment.

Do you think Diamond Start motors cares if their stock computers were capable of "great things"? No. This car was designed as a 2 door passenger car, not a formula 1 racecar. It was designed to be a reliably run, factory tuned computer.

From the sounds of it you're just trying to find the cheapass way around to making big power. Big power + stock ecu do not equal.

As far as the logger being a tuning solution I'm going to have to agree that no it isn't a tuning solution, however, it is a necessity. That should be a given that you use a logger any time you're modding a car, if it's not, than we should remove the factory oil pressure gauge, temp, and manifold pressure gauge as it seems you don't need to monitor engine condition anyways.

 

[Colt4G63 also]

Do you think Diamond Start motors cares if their stock computers were capable of "great things"? No. This car was designed as a 2 door passenger car, not a formula 1 racecar. It was designed to be a reliably run, factory tuned computer.

It's the same basic platform as the Galant V-r4. Ever hear of World Rally Cross?

 

[killer1GDSM]

Thanks for all who have helped so far, im not going to quote everyone i need to but, sorry I added one to many greats accedently, and yes back in the day my family had kids at a young age, my great grand mother had my mothers mother at 17. Now as for the whole calling bs on my greatgrandfather, i dont care what you think as in terms of things, but he did work for Diamond Star Motorsports soon as they are released to me i will have documents of his employment, as i have already said.

Thank you any Mod/wiseman/freelancer for commenting on my thread, im only taking in account what you and a select few who i know, knows what they are saying is 100% correct.. Yes the car was produced as a 2 door, but not a mere passenger car it was considered a mid-level sports coupe, much more than just "fun drivability" in mind when creating the car.

 

[Colt4G63 also]

Circa 1992:

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[killer1GDSM]

It's the same basic platform as the Galant V-r4. Ever hear of World Rally Cross?

THANK YOU! exactly what he said^

 

[Colt4G63 also]

Circa 1994:

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Definitely not just the replacement for the K-car.

 

[killer1GDSM]

Circa 1994:

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Definitely not just the replacement for the K-car.

I aplaud you sir, thank you for emphisizing my point.

 

[Colt4G63 also]

I aplaud you sir, thank you for emphisizing my point.

Doesn't mean you shouldn't tune your car to get the most out of it. It should be the first step when trying to make an engine perform at a higher than stock level.

 

[Calan]

This is one of the strangest threads I've ever seen.

Anyone else missing the point?

Its like asking how far can you can make it without your lug nuts tightened down...
What's the point?

About the best way it can be put into words.

 

[manifestmessiah]

I honestly see no point in moving backwards if you're not tuning for the cars full potential. But as far as rallying and auto-xing stockish its extremely fun, albeit a little underwhelming when compared to a fully tuned beast.

 

[Silent_White]

Modding with no tuning is like hookers with no condom; you have no idea when your parts are going to blow up.

 

[jcart953]

Modding with no tuning is like hookers with no condom; you have no idea when your parts are going to blow up.

^^

 

[clipto]

So crazy for just a basic car I mean they got all motor cars that make mad horsepower...Oh wait they have big engines but anyways please feel free to spend $10,000 on all parts on your car and not tune it maybe gt42r with 4 inch exhaust with 2000cc injectors and launch it make a video and when it blows sell it to me for 100 dollars.It's pointless to prove this point of "no tuning" that is why there was eprom chips so they could make adjustments to the setup of the car is it was in production.I am sure you can spend all the $200.56 cents in your bank account get exhaust system and maybe some glowing shift knob, but thats about all you can do not even that it is going to add power but free up power with all bolt ons.The only way to make power is tune power.If you think there was some other basic easy money saving way after how many years these cars have been out it would already be done.Sorry for bad typing at work and this is really pointless and I hope people starting off with these cars reading this thread will get bad ideas.Good luck on your goal I hope you come across something."DSM's, turning ordinary people into mechanics since 1989."

 

[dsmlover07]

Tune your car for the best performance, and most of all make it reliable.

 

[WES_393]

Tuning is not only good for bringing out horsepower, it's essential to the life of the engine. Many DSM's have made it far with just a boost controller and wideband O2 sensor, but that's considered tuning as well. The ECU already edit's fuel trim depending on load, RPM, altitude, ect so that itself is tuning.

However, there are limits to how far the stock fuel, intake, and engine management system can go. You can upgrade the engine all you want, but your ECU is pre-programmed from the factory for the stock intake and fuel system. Go ahead and throw in an HX35 turbo and 1000cc injectors, but the ECU has no idea they are there and thus has no way to control them. That's why there is a need, not an option, for some type of tuning along with modifying in order to acheive positive results. Some methods of tuning are more effective than others, but the point remains the same.

 

[clipto]

You could try and make a carbureted dsm. Or do rwd swap and drop in a chevy motor but then you would have to "tune" the carb to get it to idle.But yea I am sure you get the just of how tuning a car is in everything.

 

[josh1095]

This is one of the strangest threads I've ever seen.



About the best way it can be put into words.

agreed, i just reread it. very...... strange

 

[2g4me]

You sound like a HS kid tryna race moms VTEC and gettin all excited over a couple posted pics, at the end of the day you havnt gotten anywhere. You got 3 options here, do it RIGHT, dont do it at all, or break something over obvious reasons!

I would rather loosen my lugnuts and see how far i can make it than try racing a "modified" untuned car (which by itself shows its retardedness), I might need some new rotors but at least my motor will still be fine and i wont be flinstoning my car home!