What are the limits without tuning?

[killer1GDSM]

Ok, well after almost a year of having my car and being a part of this great forum. I have decided to do a sort of, im sure not unknown, but rarely used idea.

I want to push the limits of the 1st gen fwd eclipse, WITHOUT TUNNING.
Yes you read it right. I see almost every post on this forum eventuly has the word or words "time for dsmlink", or " you need to get a way of tunning". Which is great and yes any car with more than stock anything should probably have some sort of aftermarket tunning, but really, Does the 1g need dsmlink to produce simi-big horsepower? Thats what i want to find out.

So with all that said I am asking for members of the sight who have done something of the same concept or in the same area of what i want to accomplish, or who at least have been around DSM's for more than a few weeks. so to start of with one question.

What are the limits of a 1g without tuning?

I am going to compile all the data I receive from anyone who post on this thread and put it all in a single thread somewhere eventually and go from there.

Thanks all in advance, Dustin.

p.s. I made this a long winded post to weed out anyone who doesnt want to read, which hopefully allow the people who do read it post accuratly as possable.

 

[95eclipseguy]

Strange......yes.

I was drag racing before stutter boxes, air shifters, transbrakes and the like. Even then, hahaha, we even had a name for it. Test and TUNE nights. Although we didn't have laptops, we still had spreadsheets of a sort and LOGGED all the info we could get. Why....ummm....do I gotta tell?

Oh, that was well over 20 years ago.

I'm not tryin to bust your #^$$&, just trying to put a perspective on it.

 

[spooln4fun]

I haven't seen anyone mention gauges and I wouldn't consider those to be tuning. Perhaps you could install a wide band sensor and gauge to keep an eye out on your fuel pressure while your going this route. Only routes I've seen this done on has been mentioned.
16g
550's + 2g mas
3"down pipe
Some suspension

 

[crazytsiawd]

Tuning is everything period, why modify you're car and not finish the last step.

 

[thomcasey]

Basically 550s and a 2g mas. Used this combo with no tuning to trap 114mph in the 1/4

Brad is soooo right about this. Been running this setup for over a year (550's, 2gmaf, e316g, fmic, 2g hard intake, crushed 1g BOV reticulated, 23lbs boost) all on stock internals with stock head bolts. Never a lifted head, or issue related to the mods. This is about as far as I would go without tuning

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As an add-on, I am also running 3" exhaust, a quality boost gauge, and a Wideband. I watch it religiously. I see the same numbers (within .2) that I saw with a stock setup for everything.

 

[goodbuds]

Ill let you know how to tune your car without spending a dime.
Rip out all your interior, get a skill saw and a drill. and cut out about 300-700 pounds of car.

You will go plenty fast then.

 

[killer1GDSM]

You sound like a HS kid tryna race moms VTEC and gettin all excited over a couple posted pics, at the end of the day you havnt gotten anywhere. You got 3 options here, do it RIGHT, dont do it at all, or break something over obvious reasons!

I would rather loosen my lugnuts and see how far i can make it than try racing a "modified" untuned car (which by itself shows its retardedness), I might need some new rotors but at least my motor will still be fine and i wont be flinstoning my car home!

You really don't need to be an ass about it. Im not a damn HS kid ether. I have had my car for more than a year now, and unlike you I RESPECT THE FORUM AND ITS USERS NOT TO TALK BAD ON ANYONE!! you my friend are why people leave forums and blog sites, because of your negitive post, no one here has posted negitve torwards me excpet yourself.

 

[laser90]

Alot smart ass remarks in this thread. Where did the OP state he was upgrading to a large frame turbo? From what I gathered he just wants to go as far as he can before tuning A/F, timing etc.

 

[killer1GDSM]

Alot smart ass remarks in this thread. Where did the OP state he was upgrading to a large frame turbo? From what I gathered he just wants to go as far as he can before tuning A/F, timing etc.

Exactlly, any thoughts of your own on my ordeal?

 

[laser90]

Do you have a number in mind that you are trying to hit? I honestly dont think you can get any better than 16G, 550/2G mas combo. Once you have a way to monitor A/F and timing then you can truly start pushing your particular set-up.

 

[WES_393]

From what I gathered he just wants to go as far as he can before tuning A/F, timing etc.

Okay and the answer is nowhere safely. There is no way to increase fuel and intake safely without AT LEAST monitoring A/F ratios. IMO boost greed is the #1 cause of death with these cars, so if you aren't going to do it right don't do it at all. And even if you get a wideband your not going to see more than a couple PSI before running out of fuel. Sorry, but that's the cold hard truth.

To those running 550's untuned, you do realize your dumping 20% more unmetered fuel into the engine, right?

 

[laser90]

As an add-on, I am also running 3" exhaust, a quality boost gauge, and a Wideband. I watch it religiously. I see the same numbers (within .2) that I saw with a stock setup for everything.

Incase anyone missed it.

 

[crash89]

I made 297 wheel horse and 250 torque without a tune on STOCK injectors. Every bolt on I have now on the car was on when I had the car dyno'd. Minus my injectors and Link.

20g, 38mm wg with 10lb spring
FMIC
BC272s
3" turbo back (no cat)
wally 255 with AFPR

My first pull was a 3rd gear pull and I hit fuel cut BAD!!! Then we tried a 4th gear, went great. Checked my log via Evoscan and noticed my IDC's were 120% by redline!! Would I advise you to do this? Absolutely not. Its no wonder I hit fuel cut in 3rd gear. Im just saying what I got on a stock ecu and stock tune. Your numbers will most likely not be the same.

 

[Chill Kill Kult]

I was going to post something, then thought against it. but computers were at first put into cars for emissions plain and simple. run too rich for too long and you melt the catalytic convertor, maybe a little extreme, but the "tuning" has to be right to burn (semi) clean. I'm glad though, because no one wants to rebuild a Mikuni carb, and Audi's mechanical fuel injection was something else.

I do find it hard to believe your great great grandfather (two greats not three) had anything to do with computers, I mean they only existed in the 40's, back then they couldn't even play chess yet, and your talking four generations in 70 years.

 

[thomcasey]

Okay and the answer is nowhere safely. There is no way to increase fuel and intake safely without AT LEAST monitoring A/F ratios. IMO boost greed is the #1 cause of death with these cars, so if you aren't going to do it right don't do it at all. And even if you get a wideband your not going to see more than a couple PSI before running out of fuel. Sorry, but that's the cold hard truth.

To those running 550's untuned, you do realize your dumping 20% more unmetered fuel into the engine, right?

If you see my post, you will see that my A/F numbers prove that wrong. But it must be noted that this is a 2g MAF and 550 combo on a 1g ecu. The maf equalizes this in a 1g, but I am sure it is an issue in a 2g.

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[2g4me]

You really don't need to be an ass about it. Im not a damn HS kid ether. I have had my car for more than a year now, and unlike you I RESPECT THE FORUM AND ITS USERS NOT TO TALK BAD ON ANYONE!! you my friend are why people leave forums and blog sites, because of your negitive post, no one here has posted negitve torwards me excpet yourself.

Actually, im not being an ass, nor did i say you WERE anything, i simply said you SOUND like one. But lets be serious, you really think you can just throw all this stuff on your car, NOT tune it and be ok? With no flash, no ECM or even a simple piggyback, you wont get anywhere. Stock ecu has its limits as already mentioned here, you cant just throw a bunch of stuff on the car, not tune it and expect your car to play nicely with it, its simply not gonna happen or we'd ALL be doing it. They make aftermarket tuning devices, software and computers for a reason, to accomplish what YOUR tryna do the cheapskate way. Do it right or dont complain when people say you cant do it or when your sh!t breaks, afterall...YOUR the one here asking for answers...Well here they are, 3 pages of em!