Well, here's my dyno results...

[4TireFire]

Throw away the dyno and take it to the track guys, who cares about HP if you cant put it to the asphault. Quarter mile times show HP, traction, driver skill, weight reduction and driver skill combined all in one shot!
Dynos dont account for driver skill, weight reduction I/C heatsoak, or traction. From what i can see its hard to get a accurate dyno sheet!
I dont see ANYONE disputing their 1/4 mile printout slips!
Oh yeah and the track is cheaper than Dyno time, dont cha know

 

[pneumo]

I gotta give props here to Phoenyx for a few reasons; 1. He's getting his car dyno tuned at a respectable shop that has one of the most accurate dynos ever made. 2. He has gone back to the same shop after making changes to his car and found out what/where/why it improved.

This is progress. Forget the actual HP numbers, Vishnu's dyno reads low. Phoenyx, it might be educational if you went to the track and got some solid numbers to help correlate to the dyno tuning. Sacto Raceway has a scale, too, so you'd be able to relate to those here who know how to calculate ET, MPH and weight.

 

[ASZRAEL1266]

Originally posted by 4TireFire
Throw away the dyno and take it to the track guys, who cares about HP if you cant put it to the asphault. Quarter mile times show HP, traction, driver skill, weight reduction and driver skill combined all in one shot!
Dynos dont account for driver skill, weight reduction I/C heatsoak, or traction. From what i can see its hard to get a accurate dyno sheet!
I dont see ANYONE disputing their 1/4 mile printout slips!
Oh yeah and the track is cheaper than Dyno time, dont cha know

I do agree on this point. Tboost's car from what i feel while i am in the car has no problems. Driver skill on the other hand Marlin you need to get 2nd gear down . A stock WRX puts down 160 to the wheels on the dyno at Vishnu's and they claim 224ish at the crank. That is not just one WRX that is several. I know a WRX is not a DSM but, they have also dynoed several stock 1G and 2G DSM's and they all put out around the same numbers to the wheels from 140-150 WHP. Dr ZIP locks car put down some where around 170 WHP running i think it was 17 PSI on a 16G with exhaust intake S-AFC and the supporting stuff. The day we had a dyno day at Vishnu's the highest numbers came from a 1G with a 20G and fmic with all the supporting stuff done to it and fully tuned and he put down 293 to the wheels. I know Jay hass has said he put down close to that on the 14B. I am just trying to point out that the dyno that was used reports around 15% lower then a dyno jet. From what i gather on a dyno jet Tboost should be putting down something in the area of 195ish to the wheels. On a side note CA gas is some of the worst gas there is. The gas Tboost used when he tuned his car was from shell. It was rated at 91 octane but with all the additive crap they put in i would be suprized if it came out to around 89 octane. Another reason his WHP is where it is at is his car wanted to knock badly and it would pull timing. I am sure i will hear alot of $hit about this but the quility of gas you use to tune your car does make a big diffrence. just my .02

 

[Phoenyx]

Originally posted by JayHass


How many peolple who replied have actually dyno'd their car on an AWD dyno stock and with basic upgrades back to back? Hmmm.

I gave you real world numbers to work with from a car that has similar mods. If you can't accept that, there is no point to continue.

There is no point to continue. Why are you still replying to this thread (or any thread that has my name as the originator)?

Yes that EVO figure is correct, a 271hp car puts down 180whp.

What it made is what it made on Vishnu's dyno. You discredit his dyno, so......

MAO.

Yes I'm just guessing. No wait, you are right and a lead Garrett Engineer with a M degree in thermodynamics and engineering is wrong.

Here lets see Rob's calculations in real time.

--snip--

Power and airflow are not the same thing. airflow does dictate power since airflow affects fuel delivery. But temperature is also a factor! He could very well get more on the street!

If I were to dervive the rendering equation for light hitting a surface in computer graphics, my formula would be this: Ka * ambient_color + Kd * diffuse_color + Ks * specular_color. This is a generalization to the rendering equation and doesn't take into account, reflected, refracted, visible wavelength, fresnel reflection, irradience, or light reflected off of nearby surfaces...same goes for their general equation to Power.

And I never said you did! YOU challenged MY numbers remember? Or did you lose track of this thread?

I never challenged your numbers. The whole validity of the argument came because you mentioned that my numbers were low when, in fact, you couldn't prove it since your car has never been on Vishnu's dyno. You can't make an apples to oranges comparison.

Actually I gave you my real world numbers so you can realize your car is down on HP in a big way. If you call that trolling, you have a warped sense of reality.

Life's a bi*** and then you die. You are trolling. Everyone else that has replied to you that ran their cars on Vishnu's dyno have admitted that the dyno reads very low.

It was you who got defensive and tried to discredit my information as "fake". I never said what you had was BS but that you could do better.

The only discrediting that I've done was stated that there is no way for an AWD car to gain 77 all-wheel horsepower from just adding exhaust and turning up the boost to 17psi from 11psi. No way - still hasn't happened...

-M

 

[Phoenyx]

Originally posted by pneumo
I gotta give props here to Phoenyx for a few reasons; 1. He's getting his car dyno tuned at a respectable shop that has one of the most accurate dynos ever made. 2. He has gone back to the same shop after making changes to his car and found out what/where/why it improved.

This is progress. Forget the actual HP numbers, Vishnu's dyno reads low. Phoenyx, it might be educational if you went to the track and got some solid numbers to help correlate to the dyno tuning. Sacto Raceway has a scale, too, so you'd be able to relate to those here who know how to calculate ET, MPH and weight.

Thanks pneumo!

Will be going this Spring as soon as the ACT clutch gets put on!

-M

 

[Tevenor]

Originally posted by Phoenyx

What it made is what it made on Vishnu's dyno. You discredit his dyno, so......

Read the Evo boards and even Shiva mentions that his dyno was setup wrong.

Originally posted by Phoenyx
Power and airflow are not the same thing. airflow does dictate power since airflow affects fuel delivery. But temperature is also a factor! He could very well get more on the street!

You are right, to a degree. However temperature is a component of airflow therefore its already factored. Therefore power is equal to airflow as air flow already has interdependencies with fuel and with temperature, assuming constant volumetric space.

Originally posted by Phoenyx
You can't make an apples to oranges comparison.

Isn't this EXACTLY what you are doing making this comment:

Originally posted by Phoenyx
The only discrediting that I've done was stated that there is no way for an AWD car to gain 77 all-wheel horsepower from just adding exhaust and turning up the boost to 17psi from 11psi. No way - still hasn't happened...

 

[Phoenyx]

No. I'm actually stating that the majority of all cars don't make that much of an increase in AWHP. So why would my car have something "wrong" with it when its in the majority?

Because one car makes that, does that mean that all other cars aren't the average or below average?

Also, intake temperatures have to be read. There are so many other variables to the equation of power that I don't want to sit down and try to analyze them..

-M

 

[JayHass]

Originally posted by Phoenyx
Power and airflow are not the same thing. airflow does dictate power since airflow affects fuel delivery. But temperature is also a factor! He could very well get more on the street!

Yes, yes argue with a Garrett Engineer who proved his calculation correct with a dyno chart. Dude, you are being a tool.

Bottom line, here's mine

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Where's yours?

As it was mentioned, when the lights drop the bullshit stops.

 

[JayHass]

Originally posted by Phoenyx
No. I'm actually stating that the majority of all cars don't make that much of an increase in AWHP. So why would my car have something "wrong" with it when its in the majority?

Because one car makes that, does that mean that all other cars aren't the average or below average?

What makes you qualified to say that? How many DSM's have you seen on an AWD dyno?

I've spent more time near Pruven's AWD dyno than you probably have in your car. I've seen the results real life on not just my car but others.

14B cars maxed out make about 275whp, give or take. End of story.

 

[Phoenyx]

Originally posted by JayHass



Yes, yes argue with a Garrett Engineer who proved his calculation correct with a dyno chart. Dude, you are being a tool.

Bottom line, here's mine

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Where's yours?

As it was mentioned, when the lights drop the bullshit stops.

Are you challenging me to beat your times given my financial resources? How long have you had this car of yours? I just got mine last November and have already put $7k into it (including the purchase of the car). It is one of 4 (in which my RX7 would've already laid the smackdown on your Talon).

If you are challenging me to beat that 12.5 with any number of mods I place on my car, then you're on!!!

-M

 

[JayHass]

Originally posted by Phoenyx


Are you challenging me to beat your times given my financial resources?

#1 I don't know your financial resources, nor do I really care.

#2 I'm saying I've done it, I have the real world numbers. You don't. All you have is a figure from a screwed up dyno that says 271hp cars make 180.

How long have you had this car of yours?

At the time of that run from the time I bought it? 1.75 months. That's it.

If you are challenging me to beat that 12.5 with any number of mods I place on my car, then you're on!!!

-M

Put...the...crack...pipe...down.

 

[Phoenyx]

Originally posted by JayHass

If you are challenging me to beat that 12.5 with any number of mods I place on my car, then you're on!!!

Put...the...crack...pipe...down.

Yea, I figured you didn't want to go there homey! You probably still living wit the parents huh, youngin?

-M

 

[Tevenor]

Originally posted by Phoenyx


Yea, I figured you didn't want to go there homey! You probably still living wit the parents huh, youngin?

-M

Weak. Try again.

 

[Phoenyx]

Originally posted by Tevenor


Weak. Try again.

! I don't have to try again! Let him try again! He doesn't know me, my age, how long I've been into turbo cars, my background, who I work for, etc...

-M

 

[candela]

You guys should give it up already :laugh:

 

[Phoenyx]

Originally posted by candela
You guys should give it up already :laugh:

I will NOT stay silent! This is my thread! If he wants to continue to talk shit - I'll be here..

-M

 

[Phoenyx]

Originally posted by Tevenor


Weak. Try again.

So you in Rochester? Hmmm.... too much snow up there for any races.. At least 10 months out of the year....too depressing..

-M

 

[JayHass]

Originally posted by Phoenyx


! I don't have to try again! Let him try again! He doesn't know me, my age, how long I've been into turbo cars, my background, who I work for, etc...

-M

Nor do you know I'm 32, work as an IT Director for and Aerospace company, or that my family races professionally and I've had a 9/16" in my hand since I was three.

 

[Phoenyx]

Originally posted by JayHass


Nor do you know I'm 32, work as an IT Director for and Aerospace company, or that my family races professionally and I've had a 9/16" in my hand since I was three.

Whooptee! 33 - won't give my profession, but lets just say, I'm in the entertainment industry. Been in the AF 7 years as an Avionics&Guidance and Control Technician (B-52s) and know much about Aerospace! Family racing professionally should've taught you about theromdynamics... hell, you should know yourself working as a Director!!

Know all about wrenches homey.. Been into turbo cars since 89..

For an IT Director, you sure are into making a car go fast the cheapest way possible.. Stop being stingy and mod the car the right way to make it do 12s instead of tearing the car apart!:laugh:



-M

 

[JayHass]

Originally posted by Phoenyx


Whooptee! 33 - won't give my profession, but lets just say, I'm in the entertainment industry. Been in the AF 7 years as an Avionics&Guidance and Control Technician (B-52s) and know much about Aerospace! Family racing professionally should've taught you about theromdynamics... hell, you should know yourself working as a Director!!

A cookie for you!

My friend, don't you see. Every time you get put in your place you have to go to things like "you figures are fake" or "yea well I make more money than you, you live with your parents"

It's YOU who continually draw first blood here. I'm just having fun replying and tearing your lameness apart.

Know all about wrenches homey.. Been into turbo cars since 89..

OOOOOoooooooooo

By 1989 I already sold my restored GTO Judge (Which I got at the ripe age of 13 mind you...after changing my mind about building the 69 Swinger 340 I aquired), built a 400ci small block Grand Prix, sold it and put my 77 Formula Poncho into the 11's, sold it and bought my 1990 IROC 5.7 with the Vette based 350 rated at 245hp 345tq and put it into the low 14's stone stock. And those are just the highlights.

For an IT Director, you sure are into making a car go fast the cheapest way possible.. Stop being stingy and mod the car the right way to make it do 12s instead of tearing the car apart!

Perhaps you missed the part about his being a $1200 beater toy? Or the fact that I already built a 409whp Nissan SE-R, or the fact that I just put 50 large down on a home about 9 months ago and about 15 large into it since. There's more to life than dumping it all into a POS GSX and besides it's more of a challenge for me now to see how fast I can go with the least amount of cash or mods.

Next?

 

[Phoenyx]

You fail to notice that *you* are the one trying to make a name here.. I'm having fun too!!

All those rides you mentioned were all normally-aspirated. What was your first turbo car?? That Talon?

And you didn't answer my last sentence...why so cheap, Mr. 12.5 with gutted car on race gas? And take "That's it" from your signature. Unless you mention every single weight reducing mod you have, you are leading people to believe your car is so "special".. ! You've had your car for almost a year now and you still haven't gotten a front-mount or a decent turbo??

-M

 

[ASZRAEL1266]

...

 

[JayHass]

Originally posted by Phoenyx
You fail to notice that *you* are the one trying to make a name here.. I'm having fun too!!

I got a name, just stick JayHass into google beotch!

All those rides you mentioned were all normally-aspirated. What was your first turbo car?? That Talon?

Seriously? My first turbo car was a 280ZX turbo I had in 1987. Fun fun. Then I played with a few Turbo Mopars (Was a bit of Shelby Charger fan in the early/mid 80's) and ended up with my Turbo-II RX-7, and then built my Turbo SE-R and now this DSM. I've been around them plenty.

And you didn't answer my last sentence...why so cheap, Mr. 12.5 with gutted car on race gas?

That's probably because you didn't see my edit to follow your edit where you brought it up.

 

[Phoenyx]

Originally posted by JayHass


Perhaps you missed the part about his being a $1200 beater toy?

And you consider a Nissan SE-R a nice car???

Or the fact that I already built a 409whp Nissan SE-R, or the fact that I just put 50 large down on a home about 9 months ago and about 15 large into it since. There's more to life than dumping it all into a POS GSX and besides it's more of a challenge for me now to see how fast I can go with the least amount of cash or mods.

409WHP on a Nissan SE-R....interesting...I would've much preferred a brand new C-5 or M3...

CT - boonies...now bring yo Hass to the bay and try to drop some cash down on a house..

-M

 

[Tevenor]

Originally posted by Phoenyx


So you in Rochester? Hmmm.... too much snow up there for any races.. At least 10 months out of the year....too depressing..

-M

Doubly weak. You sir, obviously have never ice raced.