Well, here's my dyno results...

[LuckyTurbo]

You might try cleaning your injectors it might make a little bit more of a gain but not much, but atleast the car will be happy they are clean.

 

[airbrat]

Originally posted by Phoenyx


Mods are? Dynojet? @ what Psi?

In fact, anyone who is on this thread that put their cars on the dyno at Vishnu's on the last dyno day give your numbers and mods, please!

-M

it was on a dynojet here in San Antonio. Boost was at 15psi on my T25. Mod list is in my profile.

 

[chrisAWD]

it doesn't matter which dyno you use, as long as you continue to use the same one. I guess if your into benchracing you should go try a dynojet. otherwise your fine. YOu'll know what your car gains for every uprade, and you can tune it for max power. I agree with some above, that say to take it to the track. One pass and we'll have an idea if your car is strong or not. The launch really doesn't matter either, we just need the mph.

 

[95GST]

I don't think there is anything majorly wrong with his car. Has a compression test been done?

The 91 octane in CA is really that crappy. The oxygenatives they put in really makes it difficult to make good power. In a sense the 91 octane with the crap additives are not really 91 octane, more like 89 of other states!

You really have to try it before you say 91 vs east coast 93/94 doesn't make a big difference.

Entertaining Side story:
http://www.hadamotorsport.com/tech/howto/blowupengine/

 

[RedTurboEclipse]

i too have heard about vishnu's low ballin dyno results over here in the bay.. this explain the reason of the low dyno numbers from the EVO 8 that we've been seeing? cause im pretty sure thats where they dynoed it..

 

[JayHass]

Originally posted by Phoenyx


Do you actually think *anyone* is going to believe that *ANY* car will gain 77All-Wheel HP by just adding exhaust and turning up the boost 5psi?????

-M

Anyone who knows turbo cars would know that taking a 2" inlet/outlet restrictive cat off, removing a reverse flow muffler and 2.25" pipe at best, restrictive downpipe, opening up the intake tract to a turbo, and turning the boost up to 17psi (More than 5 moron) is going to yield a large gain.

Wait, didn't you claim to own a Turbo-II RX-7 that makes "mad power". Well gee so did I! In that case you of all people should know what a corked up turbo car and gain with basic mods.

The T-II gains on average 59hp JUST from the exhaust alone. This is fact. Unless Mazdatrix, the oldest and most respected RX-7 parts source is wrong.

HP increase is approximately 32% (a 59HP increase) on a 1987 Turbo II
http://www.mazdatrix.com/r-extii.htm

I HAVE timeslips, I HAVE dyno numbers. Dan Cokic is a personal friend and I got this car through him and it was his shop it hit the rollers on. The dyno numbers are real, the timeslip is real and so is the car.

What have you run at the track? I've gone 12.7@107 on pump gas and heat soaked right off the highway so you got a long way to go kid.

Last thread you were trolling and complaining that your car wasn't pulling on the top end, everyone gave you solutions and you argued every single one and changed the story as you went along. I almost doubt this is even your dyno chart now.

If anyone cares this is the thread he was trolling.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38248

Why are you really here?

 

[Tevenor]

Shiva couldn't tune his way out of a paper bag. He doesn't know DSM's and it shows in his stupid and rediculous comments on the EVO. He went so far as to 'contact Mitsu' about the 3 EVO 8's he dynoed which all came back with 180 whp saying 'there must be something wrong with the car'. Hell people who aren't affiliated with Mitsu or Vishnu or any other shop have already run low to mid 13's at MPH that would indicate 250+ to the wheels. I guess there was nothing wrong with their EVO's.


He is a joke in the WRX community for supplying high-price low-production mods. It looks like he will do the same thing for the EVO.

 

[4TireFire]

Does anyone know were there is a AWD dyno/tuner in the New England area. I.E. Maine, New hampshire, Mass. Id like to see what i am running for numbers and get fuel management dialed in.

 

[JayHass]

Originally posted by 4TireFire
Does anyone know were there is a AWD dyno/tuner in the New England area. I.E. Maine, New hampshire, Mass. Id like to see what i am running for numbers and get fuel management dialed in.

I heard there is one outside of Boston but the shop is a hack they use an eddy current "dyno" that has "issues".

The next best thing is to drive on down to CT and go to Pruven. Dan is one of the best tuners around. It's not THAT far...three MAYBE four hours from Portland.

 

[4TireFire]

Do you know how to get in contact with them,, Email, ect.
thanks for the info, Id drive that far for good work.

 

[JayHass]

www.pruvenperformance.com

Tell Dan (or Kevin if he answeres the phone) you talked to Jay Hassinger on DSMTuners and they'll take care of you.

 

[Phoenyx]

Originally posted by JayHass


Anyone who knows turbo cars would know that taking a 2" inlet/outlet restrictive cat off, removing a reverse flow muffler and 2.25" pipe at best, restrictive downpipe, opening up the intake tract to a turbo, and turning the boost up to 17psi (More than 5 moron) is going to yield a large gain.

You are the moron. Stock boost on an DSM is 11psi. Therefore, going from 11psi to 17psi is 5 more psi.

Wait, didn't you claim to own a Turbo-II RX-7 that makes "mad power". Well gee so did I! In that case you of all people should know what a corked up turbo car and gain with basic mods.

The T-II gains on average 59hp JUST from the exhaust alone. This is fact. Unless Mazdatrix, the oldest and most respected RX-7 parts source is wrong.

This is not at the wheels goof! And besides a RWD car has less drivetrain loss than an AWD car, therefore it will gain more HP to the wheels from boost increase than an AWD car! A bone stock T2 makes 150WHP on a dynojet. I gained 110WHP from all the shit I put on my car: removal of all emissions, 2.5 turbo back exhaust, 15psi of boost on a T04E, Haltech management computer, no airbox, no MAF, no airpump, etc...doesn't seem like much of a gain from stock now does it...

What have you run at the track? I've gone 12.7@107 on pump gas and heat soaked right off the highway so you got a long way to go kid.

Haven't run at the track yet, but you will be the first to know. 12.7@107mph with WEIGHT reduction and RACE gas! Gee - I'm impressed!!

Try to run those times with the same mods here in Cali on pump..


-M

 

[Formz]

Originally posted by Phoenyx


You are the moron. Stock boost on an DSM is 11psi. Therefore, going from 11psi to 17psi is 5 more psi.

Haven't run at the track yet, but you will be the first to know. 12.7@107mph with WEIGHT reduction and RACE gas! Gee - I'm impressed!!

Try to run those times with the same mods here in Cali on pump..


-M

11 + 5 = 17?? huh??

And he ran that 12.7@107 on pump gas. His 12.5@109 was on race gase.

 

[Phoenyx]

Originally posted by Formz


11 + 5 = 17?? huh??

And he ran that 12.7@107 on pump gas. His 12.5@109 was on race gase.

Ok. 6 more psi.

12.7 on pump? Interesting. How much weight reduction he take from the car?

My point is. Any reasonably good conditioned AWD Talon should do nearly the same on a 14b with the same psi and weight reduction and high enough octane. So JayHass should stop making it seem like his car is some kind of freak...

-M

 

[Formz]

You'll have to talk to him for the exact figures, but I think it's in the neiborhood of 2700lbs. The only things he removed were AC, some misc brakets, sound deadening, spare tire/jack etc... and the passenger seat when racing. My talon is like that too and its my daily!

 

[Phoenyx]

Originally posted by Formz
You'll have to talk to him for the exact figures, but I think it's in the neiborhood of 2700lbs. The only things he removed were AC, some misc brakets, sound deadening, spare tire/jack etc... and the passenger seat when racing. My talon is like that too and its my daily!

That's a lot of weight reduction! Wow! Lighter than my RX7!

I'd imagine that this has a lot to do with the 12-sec times on an AWD. Ever ran the car at the track with full weight?

-M

 

[Formz]

It really is not a lot of weight reduction. Well, it's a lot of weight, but the car is FAR from gutted. It still retains all the plastic interior pieces buttons/knobs etc. My car is the same way, and the only way you can even tell something is a mis is because there is no spare tire or back seat. Sersiously, it takes VERY little effort to dip these cars into the 2800lb ish territory.

EDIT: look at the picture in my sig, that is of the interior as it stands now. It doesn't look any different up front.

 

[Phoenyx]

Originally posted by Formz
It really is not a lot of weight reduction. Well, it's a lot of weight, but the car is FAR from gutted. It still retains all the plastic interior pieces buttons/knobs etc. My car is the same way, and the only way you can even tell something is a mis is because there is no spare tire or back seat. Sersiously, it takes VERY little effort to dip these cars into the 2800lb ish territory.

EDIT: look at the picture in my sig, that is of the interior as it stands now. It doesn't look any different up front.

Oh, I agree..but that's a lot of weight seeing as though the stock setup fully loaded is like 3200lbs right (give or take options on the car)?

-M

 

[Formz]

3070 for a full weight 1g awd

 

[JET]

Yeah, 2700 is getting down there. I think this is his list of weight reduction. Race front seats, no rears, spare, rear hatch covers, seat belts, sound deadening, radio, both bumpers, fog lights, AC, cruise, and rear wiper all removed. That is doing quite a bit and I didn't list some of the small stuff.

 

[Formz]

I have the exact list on my computer, both bumpers remain. Cruise control is 5lbs, I took it out of my DD too because it's worthless.

He may of taken those out now, but at the time he ran the 12.5 those bumpers and (maybe) cruise WERE in the car.

 

[JayHass]

Formz, thanks for answering for me.

Phoenyx I've come to the conclusion you are acting like a fool who doesn't want to hear anything but what's in your own head.

#1 As it was pointed out you can't do basic math.

#2 What part of pump gas did you not read in my post?

#3 2745lbs was what I raced the car at that day without driver. (Left the pass seat in) NOW the car has more weight removed.

#4 I'm not trying to make my car out to be a freak, in fact just the opposite. I'm showing you what's normal, and how sick your car is.

#5 Your car still only makes 164WHP and 166WTQ @15psi which is WEAK on ANY dyno.

As far as how much power is to be gained from just boost increases lets do some basic math with a formula given to me by a friend who happens to work for Garrett and designs turbo's for a living.

At 11 psi, manifold pressure is 25.7 psi absolute
(11 psi gauge plus 14.7 psi ambient pressure). At 17 psi, manifold pressure is 31.7 psi absolute. Therefore, the power at 17 psi with a 168hp baseline should be:

power = (31.7)/(25.7)*168 = 207.2 hp. There is usually a 3% error downward so that leaves 6.2hp on the table and can bring the total to 213.4. BUT for the sake of this lame argument I'll use the low number of 207.2.

So, if we now have 207.2 awhp just from boost increase we have 37.8hp left on the table.

It is VERY acceptable for a turbo car to gain 37 hp from a turbo back exhaust upgrade w/ test pipe and the air intake opened up ESPECIALLY from a DSM's crappy small stock cat and exhaust and restrictive airbox.

Go up 3psi on race gas to 20psi using that same formula and it adds another 20hp just from boost to the 245whp 17psi run I made which puts the figure at 265whp and probably another 10-15hp due to less timing being pulled due to race fuel and look at that...you have the magic number of the 14b's average max hp. 275-280whp.

Lets go yet another step further and plug in my race weight of 2925lbs and 109mph trap speed using a basic hp from trap speed formula comes up with 302hp at the crank Subtract my initial driveline loss of 27hp (195chp-168whp) and guess where that puts the figure? Yep 275whp RIGHT on the money.

Everything lines up to within a few hp going by sound engineering principles, not your riceboy math.

[Edit: Removed name calling and such after I thought about it.]

 

[custom240sx]

i made 280hp at the wheels with just the a few bolt ons. and the 17c. I thought that was pretty good.

 

[Phoenyx]

Originally posted by JayHass

Phoenyx I've come to the conclusion you are acting like a fool who doesn't want to hear anything...snip....

#1 As it was pointed out you can't do basic math.

Ok, so I missed one number and I can't do basic math as a whole? , I guess I weasled my way through Comp sci...

#4 I'm not trying to make my car out to be a freak, in fact just the opposite. I'm showing you what's normal, and how sick your car is.

As have been pointed out by many people here who have posted. There is nothing wrong with my car. YOU have a hard time believing that Vishnu's dyno reads lower than a conventional dynojet.

#5 Your car still only makes 164WHP and 166WTQ @15psi which is WEAK on ANY dyno.

Well, yea, compared to your numbers! Compared to a new EVO (with 180WHP) at 16-19psi with a Big16G and front-mount intercooler, things don't look so bad...

As far as how much power is to be gained from just boost increases lets do some basic math with a formula given to me by a friend who happens to work for Garrett and designs turbo's for a living.

At 11 psi, manifold pressure is 25.7 psi absolute
(11 psi gauge plus 14.7 psi ambient pressure). At 17 psi, manifold pressure is 31.7 psi absolute. Therefore, the power at 17 psi with a 168hp baseline should be:

power = (31.7)/(25.7)*168 = 207.2 hp. There is usually a 3% error downward so that leaves 6.2hp on the table and can bring the total to 213.4. BUT for the sake of this lame argument I'll use the low number of 207.2.

----snip------

All your numbers are theory-based. You haven't compensated for heat soak, friction in the engine, ambient temperature outside, intake temps, etc..

It is VERY acceptable for a turbo car to gain 37 hp from a turbo back exhaust upgrade w/ test pipe and the air intake opened up ESPECIALLY from a DSM's crappy small stock cat and exhaust and restrictive airbox.

I never mentioned that I have a test pipe or have freed up the intake tract. I have a high-flo cat and just a K&N cone. Everything in the intake tract is bone stock (all pipes).

[Edit: Removed name calling and such after I thought about it.]

Wow, you mean you are a little mature?

You started this whole flame war. If you look at the start, all I did was give my numbers and told people before hand to look at the fact that Vishnu's dyno was not everyone else's dyno. Your very first comment was that you made more than that bone stock! That's not giving any type of analysis but trolling...

-M

 

[JayHass]

Originally posted by Phoenyx
As have been pointed out by many people here who have posted. There is nothing wrong with my car. YOU have a hard time believing that Vishnu's dyno reads lower than a conventional dynojet.

How many peolple who replied have actually dyno'd their car on an AWD dyno stock and with basic upgrades back to back? Hmmm.

I gave you real world numbers to work with from a car that has similar mods. If you can't accept that, there is no point to continue.

Well, yea, compared to your numbers! Compared to a new EVO (with 180WHP) at 16-19psi with a Big16G and front-mount intercooler, things don't look so bad...

Yes that EVO figure is correct, a 271hp car puts down 180whp.

All your numbers are theory-based. You haven't compensated for heat soak, friction in the engine, ambient temperature outside, intake temps, etc..

MAO.

Yes I'm just guessing. No wait, you are right and a lead Garrett Engineer with a M degree in thermodynamics and engineering is wrong.

Here lets see Rob's calculations in real time.

>Here are the official #'s from the past weekends dyno.

>@10psi 271hp 244 lb/ft
>@14psi 323hp 293 lb/ft
>@20psi 392hp 367 lb/ft

If you want a good way to estimate horsepower on a turbo car, look at Ryan's
result and use this rule of thumb: Power is a function of airflow. Airflow
is a function of density. Density is a function of absolute pressure.

Let's see how it works. At 10 psi, manifold pressure is 24.7 psi absolute
(10 psi gauge plus 14.7 psi ambient pressure). At 14 psi, manifold pressure
is 28.7 psi absolute. Therefore, the power at 14 psi should be:

power = (28.7)/(24.7)*271 = 314.9 hp. That's a 2.5% error. Not bad
correlation

At 20 psi, manifold absolute pressure is 34.7 psi. Power should be:

power = (34.7)/(24.7)*271 = 380.7 hp. That's a 3% error. Not bad.

Rob

Yep, your right they don't work at all.

I never mentioned that I have a test pipe or have freed up the intake tract. I have a high-flo cat and just a K&N cone. Everything in the intake tract is bone stock (all pipes).

And I never said you did! YOU challenged MY numbers remember? Or did you lose track of this thread?

Wow, you mean you are a little mature?

Take a lesson.

You started this whole flame war. If you look at the start, all I did was give my numbers and told people before hand to look at the fact that Vishnu's dyno was not everyone else's dyno. Your very first comment was that you made more than that bone stock! That's not giving any type of analysis but trolling...

Actually I gave you my real world numbers so you can realize your car is down on HP in a big way. If you call that trolling, you have a warped sense of reality.

It was you who got defensive and tried to discredit my information as "fake". I never said what you had was BS but that you could do better.

Who's trolling? Right!