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Welded Center Diff as a Daily Driver?

Which should I get? Don't vote if you don't know.

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    104
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okay so a welded diff, spool, and vce pretty much all lock in all 4 tires correct? if this is correct, then could one assume that you're saying none of these should be used on the street and that they'd all chirp the tires going around corners? just that a welded diff can't be changed back to stock? but overall, those 3 things do exactly the same thing when it comes to locking in the tires correct?

and a quaife, kazz, and cusco are the best way to go if ya don't mind forking out the bucks cause they're streetable and good for the track at the same time? although you'd still need to upgrade to a 4 spider gear for strength?

and the only thing the 4 spider gear does is give you more strength. am i missing anything?
 
You got it right with one small exception:

and a quaife, kazz, and cusco are the best way to go if ya don't mind forking out the bucks cause they're streetable and good for the track at the same time? although you'd still need to upgrade to a 4 spider gear for strength?[\quote]

You do not need to upgrade to the 4 spider gear as you will be replacing your stock 2 spider gear center diff with one of those units. But some of them already have 4 spider gear construction.

One more thing to consider when selecting one of those aftermarket center diffs. Our tranny often fail by shredding the teeth off the intermediate shaft. That usually also destroys your center diff outer housing (as do pretty much all major tranny failures). So I would only select one of those diffs which offers a replacement housing.

I know that back in a day when Cusco first came to US, this was not an option. So if you had a tranny failure, you were also staring at a $1500 paper weight. I am not sure if this is still the case with Cusco, but I would definitely check before I forkover over $1000 for one of those center diffs.
Click to expand...
 
aight, well that being said, do ya not drive your car on the street? i know you're running the vce and of course that's locking in all the wheels correct? i would think it'd be chirping the tires just the same as a welded center diff (i ask since you're recommending against the use of a welded center diff for street use, when it does the same thing as a vce...aside from the fact that you can't swap it back like the vce).

trying to figure out what i wanna go with myself being that once my stroker is built, the tranny will be the next to get modded and i'd rather choose the best thing the 1st time....for street and drag use.
 
The beauty of VCE is that it can be swapped in or out in under 30 min. That is what I was doing! In the days when we used to have AutoX during DSM Shootout. I would AutoX on Viscous Coupling and then at night swap in VCE for the drag race. So I had the best of both words :).

I did very little AutoXing in the last few years, so my car kept VCE most of the time. I would only swap in Viscous Coupling when I did oval track racing. But when I was on the street, I actually preferred putting my car into FWD (instead of 4x4). For that, you need a switchable JDM transfer case. But that is another topic all together
 
oh okay, well i hate fwd so would prefer to have awd. but just wondering about the problems of driving on the street with all 4 tires locked in. hmmm....
 
GRNDSM said:
Yea, well, with over 500whp (typical street boost), I have even more of a reason to hate FWD. Yet I choose it over 4x4 mode (locked center diff). So what does that tell you?
Click to expand...

that i should fork out money for the more expensive stuff so that i don't have to worry about it being a pain in my butt for daily driving. :D i'd rather put up with wheel chirp and the longer time it'd take to park than to deal with fwd. but i'll try not to get off topic....
 
unlike the VCE, you wouldn't have to upgrade the spider gears using a spool would you? although you'd still need to upgrade the intermediate shaft though right?
 
aight thanks. may just try out a spool cause i personally don't see any reason for me to swap it out. and the nearest dyno is 200 miles away :( as is anything other than a 1/8th mile track :cry:
 
alright, i thought of another question.

let's say ya wanted to upgrade to a 4 spider gear and wanted to get a VCE for the 4x4 mode. but if you wanted to take it out so all 4 tires aren't locked up, and ALSO don't want the crappy fwd, what would be required to put it back as if it were stock awd? then when you want 4x4 mode again, throw back in the VCE...

i'd much rather do that if that's possible, over having fwd, and still be able to swap it out fairly easy and still keep my awd on the street. also allowing me to have a setup that's not permanent incase i hate the 4x4 mode. just not really too sure as to what is involved to do the swap though. trying to figure out the best all around and easiest setup without hitting me in the wallet incase i don't like the setup and wanna swap out. thanks again!
 
v8s_are_slow said:
let's say ya wanted to upgrade to a 4 spider gear and wanted to get a VCE for the 4x4 mode. but if you wanted to take it out so all 4 tires aren't locked up, and ALSO don't want the crappy fwd, what would be required to put it back as if it were stock awd?
Click to expand...

Swapping in a stock VC would do the job.

Why does it feel like we are going in circles here...
 
GRNDSM said:
Swapping in a stock VC would do the job.

Why does it feel like we are going in circles here...
Click to expand...

sorry, just tryring to cover all the angles :D heck, this thread might come in handy for someone though :rocks:

p.s. not sure how hard that is or time consuming being that i've never messed with it. but guess i'll find out. don't think i have anymore questions :D
 
While I am not here to disagree with Leon, as I'm sure he has plenty of experience, I'd just like to point out that quite a few locals (myself included) are running around the streets with welded center diff's and no big complaints. None of us autocross, and as long as we're easy on the Taco Bell drive-thru, we're fine.

Just my .02.
 
I'd just like to point out that quite a few locals (myself included) are running around the streets with welded center diff's and no big complaints
Click to expand...
EXACTLY!! And that was the original question posted. As I said, I 've been on mine for OVER FIVE YEARS with no problems.

A WELDED CD DOES NOT LOCK ALL FOUR TIRES TOGETHER despite what several have said in this thread. If you were talking about a typical rear wheel drive car then a spool or welded diff WOULD lock the rear axles together all the time.

But our DSM's have THREE differentials, a center diff, a front diff, and a rear diff. All of them operate independantly. A Welded Center Diff, or a spool, or a VCE only locks the front output shaft to the center output shaft in the tranny. The front differential, which on most DSM's is open, still allows each front axle to spin independant of each other. They are not locked together.

The same thing applies to the rear. Some DSM's have an LSD rear diff but it still allows each axle to turn independant of each other but the "grip" of the LSD must be overcome. Sometimes it requires less torque to spin the tire on the pavement than it does to differentiate the LSD and then the tire "skips." That is also why the rear skips and not the front.

But all four wheels are NEVER locked together, the front and rear differentials are still doing their jobs. This is why I disagree that a welded center diff is a "race only" mod.
why would you ever lock your center diff on a 13 sec car?
Click to expand...
I welded it when it was a 14 second car! Because the FUBARed center diff failed TWO output shafts in 18 months and I didn't want to have to fix it again. Welding the CD removes the thrust washers inside, which are the cause of many failed CD's and output shafts. I was not about to buy a $1000+ Cusco or Quaiffe when welding solved my problem for less than $100.
You say that you “autocrossed”. What does it entail?
Click to expand...
About ten events a year with the Joliet Sports Car club http://jolietsportscarclub.com/ for the past three years. This year we lost our venue and I haven't raced.
I am guessing that you weren’t very competitive in your class
Click to expand...
We didn't use SCCA type classes, it was more of a run what ya brung. But it's irrelevant as far as the question of streetability goes. I'm not claiming it's the best for Autocross. Only that it has survived it with out any breakage or problems as is still streetable. BTW, I have five 3rd place trophies and one 2nd in B & C Classes - second and third fastest classes.
BTW, the photo in your profile shows extreme case of understeer, not to mention a suspension that is too soft
Click to expand...
Yeah, what a blessing our strut front suspension is! That photo is one of the only ones I have racing my car and it probably wasn't at it's, or my best point in the race. My suspension is WAY soft for racing. It's an EVERYDAY street driver. I couldn't drive anything too much stiffer on the street. I race it because it's fun, not because I'm trying to be the fastest.

All the mods I've done to the car are with streetability and reliability in mind. Including a Welded Center Diff.

Rick - '91 GSX :dsm:
 
But all four wheels are NEVER locked together, the front and rear differentials are still doing their jobs. This is why I disagree that a welded center diff is a "race only" mod.
Click to expand...

I like to use 4x4 analogy, because center diff is what separates AWD from 4x4. So by locking your center diff you turn your AWD car into what most people consider a 4x4 (most of which also have open front and rear diffs). But you are correct, all 4 wheels are NOT locked together.

But that does NOT make your argument any more solid! Your front and rear wheels are still spinning at different rates when you are turning and that is where welded center diff impairs your performance!

Going back to the truck analogy, anyone who has had a 4x4 truck knows NOT to run it in that mode on dry pavement. You put more stress on your drivetrain, wear out your tires and get worse gas mileage. And that applies to crappy truck tires, which do not have great traction on dry pavement.

So what do you guys do? You take a car with much better try traction tires (than a truck) and you torture your tires AND you drivetrain by driving around in the 4x4 mode.

I do not believe that you need to be genius to realize that this is NOT a good idea for street use…

I welded it when it was a 14 second car! Because the FUBARed center diff failed TWO output shafts in 18 months and I didn't want to have to fix it again. Welding the CD removes the thrust washers inside, which are the cause of many failed CD's and output shafts. I was not about to buy a $1000+ Cusco or Quaiffe when welding solved my problem for less than $100.
Click to expand...

These is a word for this type of solution, but I will skip using it... :rolleyes:
 
Well, I decided to just get shep's tranny with the 4 spider gear option. Generally, I don't like really loud noises. Besides, the difference is only 275 bucks, not too bad. Just an update on my decision. Also, you can keep this thread alive for future reference in case somebody else needs it.
 
Since we are already on topic about this, I heard that the Cusco Center Diff. distributes the torque 35/65 bias. this being true does it operate by a series of clutches that will eventually have to be overhauled? Im just looking for some way to have that 35/65 split but the TRE Spool does sounds pretty nice.
 
allgripnoslip said:
Since we are already on topic about this, I heard that the Cusco Center Diff. distributes the torque 35/65 bias. this being true does it operate by a series of clutches that will eventually have to be overhauled? Im just looking for some way to have that 35/65 split but the TRE Spool does sounds pretty nice.
Click to expand...
Some one correct me if I'm wrong but the discs last a long time, it's the viscous fluid that needs replacing once in a while......
 
i just found this thread good stuff i might add as well........I've got a question for those that have a welded center diff. how often have u broken driveline parts since you did the weld? the reason i ask is i just got my project(built motor, 50 trim ect...) all done i went with a shep tranny with the welded center diff. by no means is this car a daily driver. im in the process of my engine/ tranny break in and after reading the last 2 pages i feel better about the clicking that i hear when i pull into parking spots and my driveway. none the less my talon has alot of miles on the body(165K) and john shepherd already warned me on my 3 bolt rear end blowing up. i just wanna know if going through rear cv joints is gonna be common or popping univerisal joints / carrier bearing is gonna happen. cause i'll load up on parts LOL..........thx
 
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