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Weird issue(s) - help needed

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TajMan

20+ Year Contributor
70
1
Jan 20, 2005
Salt lake City, Utah
The car: 1990 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD

I had a long ass thread on 3si.org, as well as two different threads on DSM forums... all three have since been neglected because they're just full of me posting problem after problem after problem.

I've come across a new weird issue so I need suggestions though. As you can see in this pic:

[Re-size to a maximum of 700 pixels.]

the end of my passenger's side CV-axle assembly is stuck in the tranny. The strap holding the boot on was cut off and the rest of the axle removed.

Now this is gonna be the 3rd time of me installing the tranny into this car (I'm taking it out right now). The first time I installed just the tranny with the engine already in the car. The second time I used an engine hoist to pull the engine/tranny out and installed a new engine. That time when I had the tranny out of the car, the end of the CV axle was already stuck in the tranny, and with it out of the car I used pry bars and tried everything to pop that CV joint piece out. It wouldn't budge though, its stuck good. I don't understand, don't those things just have a small snap ring that helps keep them in?

The reason I have to have it out now, is because I believe it is getting in the way and not allowing me to drop just the tranny like I'm trying to do again. I've got to pull it out now, its the next step.

Since the tranny is still in the car right now, I used some big vice grip pliers to latch onto the axle end piece, and I used some lengths of wire to really pull on it, but it still hasn't budged.

Any suggestions? You all do not comprehend the nightmare this car has been. I haven't even posted about everything. I'm on my 2nd engine, 3rd time of major work and then turning the engine over (thinking I had fixed the problem), just to find its making a horrible grinding sound. 3 TIMES!!! Grinding sound changed and is coming form a different source now I think, LOL.
 
So is the tranny going to be in or out of the car when you try your next "remove the cv-joint bout"? Is the cv-joint on the other side out? Have you sprayed a rust releasing agent through that side of the tranny case? It being AWD is the transfer assembly removed?
 
I couldn't get the tranny out with the CV joint piece still there. It had to come out first. Someone even suggested hitting it from the other side with a screwdriver (the diff pin is in the way, but a screwdriver can get around it)... but that didn't work. Yeah my other CV joint and the transfer case are off already.

However, I am the man, and this was my idea. :D Worked great.

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Soon enough I will have the tranny off, fix my shifted plate inbetween the engine/tranny, and then turn the motor over by hand with the tranny off to see if it grinds that way.
 

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And now I can't get the tranny installed again. :( The worst part it I'm not sure if I fixed the problem or not, so all I can do is put it back together and try again.
 
Well I got the tranny on again. Nobody made it a big enough point, that the KEY to getting the tranny in with the engine still installed is to REMOVE THE DRIVER'S SIDE ENGINE MOUNT AND JACK THAT SIDE OF THE ENGINE UP TO TILT IT.

I even found that I forgot to use the clutch alignment tool this time, so I got the tranny almost installed, then dropped all the way again, then I fixed that, then I got it installed again. LOL With that side of the engine jacked up the whole thing can be done rather quickly. Hanging the tranny with the engine hoist makes things a lot easier.

Now for the bad news. Still makes the bad grinding noise.
:( :( :(

I'm talking serious bad noise, and I still have no idea what's up. I'm gonna do a compression check to this motor in the morning, but besides that I've exhausted all options, I have no idea what to do.
 
Well I did a compression check in the #1 cylinder and it had fine cold compression. Ok. So later today I go to check the other three. I guess my battery was worn down or something cause It wouldn't turn the motor over any more. I am charging the battery now. I took out all the plugs, and checked the other three cylinders by turning the motor over by hand with a wrench as fast as I could. I figured the numbers wouldn't be as high, but as long as I had some compression I'd assume they were fine. Yep, the other three cylinders all came up the same turning it over by hand.

So now I have no ideas again. Its weird it doesn't make any bad sounds turning the motor over by hand, only by turning over with the key, but I'm on my third starter motor so I don't think thats it. I know I have the correct AWD flywheel, its the one that was already on the car (that I got ground after I found I was trying to use a FWD flywheel on there first).
 
Are there any differences between DSM flywheels besides FWD and AWD and 6 bolt and 7 bolt? Is there more than one kind of 6-bolt AWD flywheel? Is there any type of spacer that goes between the crank and the flywheel?

We took the starter motor off again. We confirmed that the bad sound is the starter motor gears grinding against the flywheel gears. Its like the starter gears don't come out far enough to fully engage it. I took the starter motor back and swapped it again. Thats 4 count em 4 starter motors. Put it back on, still makes the bad noise.

I'd say that I had the wrong flywheel, but we've already been through this. Originally I was given a pre-ground flywheel to use. I installed it and tried to get the tranny on. We figured out that the flywheel was too big for the tranny to go around it. I then found that we were trying to use a FWD flywheel that was in fact different (bigger) than the AWD flywheel. Ok, so I took the flywheel that was on the shortblock in the car when I purchased it (had to be the correct AWD flywheel). I got it ground and installed everything. The tranny fit fine, I've always assumed thats the correct flywheel. The teath aren't ground or anything, it looked new.

What else could there be that is causing this issue? Is there supposed to be some type of spacer/shim you use when you bolt the starter motor on? I've got that metal plate piece in there between the tranny and starter motor when it bolts up.
 
Please guys the car is so close!!! If nobody can at least give me an idea then I'll be forced to part the car out starting this next week. :(
 
I found my problem! NoNaMeS on the DSMtalk forums posted this:

"i had that same problem, it ended up being the flywheel teeth were either worn away or cut by the machine shop too short, got a new flywheel the skipping stopped but it was still grinding. the metal (gasket?) if you will, is different between awd and fwd. i modified the fwd gasket to allow me to mount the starter where it needed to be and havent had the problem since. are you using the FWD metal gasket?"

Nobody ever told me that metal plate was different between the FWD and AWD! My junk yard engine came out of a FWD car and I left the plate on because my plate on my old engine was already ripped up! My plate wasn't shifted like I though originally, everything just didn't line up cause I had a FWD plate on! I cut the plate with a dremel tool and used a different piece around the starter motor to make it work, but its not connected to the rest of the plate and thats why its grinding--its not holding the starter in the correct position.

So now I just have to drop the tranny one more time, and find a AWD plate to swap out. I'll try the mitsu dealership tomorrow, but if I can't get it there I need someone online to overnight me one.
 
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Thats what my old plate looks like. Yeah that piece around the starter keeps it spaced out that much farther, but since its not connected to the rest of the plate it doesn't hold the starter in the right place to keep it from grinding.
 

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Weld it back together if you can't find one. It's not under any stress or anything, just needs to be a spacer. It's an idea if finding one/paying for a new one doesn't work out for you.
 
weith1111 said:
Weld it back together if you can't find one. It's not under any stress or anything, just needs to be a spacer. It's an idea if finding one/paying for a new one doesn't work out for you.

Nope, won't work. Not unless I DID have the correct one, and I overlayed it and got it lined up perfect before I welded it. Otherwise its just gonna grind. If I put it on right now the starter bolt holes through the transmission don't allow much free play, but its enough to let it grind and not work correctly. That plate has to be exact, and it keeps the starter mounted in the correct position.

Besides that plate in the pic is off a FWD car, and the piece that goes around the starter is a piece from my old AWD plate that was all torn up.

I already located one and paid to have it overnighted.
 
Oops, sorry, I thought that was the destroyed one! OMG

Sounds like you will be back together, with the correct part, in no time. Good luck!
 
I got it running!!! Haha!!! You have no idea how good this feels with the problems I've been through on this car. I knew that AWD/FWD plate thing was the problem with the starter as soon as I found out they were different on AWD and FWD cars.

Its running, but not GREAT. We just barely got it started. I believe its the old gas that has been sitting in the tank (for who knows how long). Tomorrow I am going to drain all the gas, and then refill it with some fresh premium!
 
Well it would start and run for a few seconds, then die. I ended up taking it to a local shop and they foun the CAS didn't have a good connection somehow. It runs now. :) There still are a few problems though, its staying at the shop till monday so they can try and fix some more stuff, I'm done working on the damn car haha. Problems: The clutch didn't work. They are gonna bleed the hydraulics. (I bought the car, the tranny wasn't installed and there wasn't fluid in the clutch resevoir. I put fluid in it but I hadn't bled it yet.) The power steering belt was rubbing on something somehow and smoking a little bit. They are gonna change that and try to figure out if/why something is rubbing on it somewhere. Also there is a slight noise coming from somewhere around the timing belt area. Like rubbing noise almost. You can hear it standing above the engine but you can't even hear it sitting in the car. I'm not sure what I'm gonna do about that. The engine was in the car in the junk yard because the car was rolled over, not because of mechanical issues. It had been sitting for a bit, but the car had the hood closed. I havn't touched the timing belt yet on this motor, I really didn't want to get into it with all the problems I've had with this car. Also the headlights didn't pop up. Actually they were up half way when I saw the car at the shop, but they were stuck there and wouldn't go up or down. I assume a fuse somewhere blew on them when it was in the shop. Where should I check under the hood or under the dash?
 
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