Varying Clutch Engagement [Merged 1-9] bleeding air floor stuck grinding

[BoostInsideTSi]

Okay, folks, for some unknown reason, we're now getting three threads a week started about clutch malfunctions.
The usual cause is that the system hasn't been properly bled.

Have at it.

I put in a used, but in good condition master cylinder, to replace the one I had before with a broken rubber seal. I did not bleed any components, I simply took out the old one, and bolted the new one up. Then I proceeded to fill the reservoir with dot 3 brake fluid. Bubbles rose to the top of the reservoir, then I topped it off after the fluid ran down into the system. I looked at the clutch pedal and noticed it was still sitting on the floor. I tried pulling it up off the floor, but it only went up a few inches. Probably some adjusting that needs to be done with the rod is causing that. Anyway when I pull it up there is quite a bit of resistance, where when I let go the pedal just pulls right back to the floor. I've heard there is a vacuum going on, where with air in the system, it is just pulling that sucker right back. I tried pumping the crap out of the pedal with a friend opening the bleeder valve and I just shoot clutch fluid everywhere.. I Stop after about 50 pumps and put more fluid and keep going, but notice no improvement. Does anyone know what I need to do? Can anyone verify it is the air in the system causing my problem? Thank you,
Mike

 

[Killa_dsm]

Did you also check the clutch fluid? Or is that what your referring to as tranny fluid? I had a similar problem happen to me and it ended up being a leaking/dead master cylinder. It was leaking on the floor board in the car. Its simple and easy to check, just look under the dash and see if you have any fluid under the carpet.

 

[greg90gs]

mine is not leaking i know this for a fact, i just installed my boost gauge and it was one dry under there and i check all my fluids once a week when i fill my ps (it is still leaking) and my fluid is fine

 

[DeadsEvolution1]

Alright guys I am going to give you play by play of what happened.

First off I have a 1991 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo FWD

I did a half shaft axle conversion on the drive side shaft and 1 bolt came out other broke off. Noticed tranny fluid leaking out is how I found out. So I had some work to do and finally got everything into place with grade 10.5 bolts. Put 2.8 Quarts of gear oil in there mt-90. Started her up, put it into gear drove up my drive way parked and turned off.
Came outside 2 hours later started her up to leave and what do you know car wouldn't go into gear. Took a look around and nothing appeared out of the ordinary. I started it up with the car in gear, releasesed the clutch and it moved but couldn't get out of the gear easily and definitely could not get back into gear. The next day tried to get it so I can pull it into the garage by starting it up in gear again and the car just launched forward as if I started the car in gear without the clutch pressed in. I noticed a tear in my clutch hydraulic fluid line that runs to the slave cylinder. There was my leak and while I had so much air in my system. So I bought a steel braided line and put it on, bleeded the system and started the car. Tried to put the car in gear and no go still.

Car never had any shifting issues before this, no noises out of the transmission so I do not think it was the TOB, all sypmtoms started after that issue with the half shaft coming out, already did adjustment on clutch under the dash by the firewall with no help to my issue. I push the clutch in and the fork doesn't move at all

 

[SrKegler]

Sounds like you haven't gotten all the air out. Keep bleeding the slave cylinder. Also check to make sure you haven't ran the adjustment out too far at the top. Easiest way to check that is open the bleeder valve on the slave and try and push the rod back in. If you can't, the top rod is adjusted out too far.

There's a write up on the procedure on here someplace, good search should find it for you.

 

[92AWDHX40]

did you adjust the linkage?

 

[DeadsEvolution1]

The linkage where?? Under the dash where the master cylinder goes through the firewall?? There I did

 

[DeadsEvolution1]

I bleed the system again for 15 minutes straight. kept spraying out like there was still air in the line. Seems like there was no end to it either. Also I watch the clutch fork move so I know that is not the issue now. But even after bleeding it out for that long still no clutch engagement. I am thinking it's the TOB. Not sure though
Any info would be greatly appreciated

 

[l3igl3ang]

TOB eather works or it dont if the TOB is going out u would hear rattling if it fell off the fork it would not go in gear at all running or not.

To me it sounds like the clutch is not pushing in far enough dose it grind when u try to put it in gear? Mine did this after i swap transmissions i had to adjust the push rod under the dash to make it push the shaft in futher on the fork in enguge the clutch.

 

[DeadsEvolution1]

I didn't think it was the TOB either just thought maybe by chance. I did a motor swap about 40 miles ago and everything was working fine until this issue. Now I am stuck here. Just not sure what to do. But I tried to adjust the pedal already with no help

 

[cfelix]

Im having the same thing on my gst I swap my tranny out put a clutch and the car runs great but when I put it in reverse It feels like Its hitting something.Not even with the car off can I put the car in reverse.

 

[DeadsEvolution1]

Ok so guys there is a local DSM website here and i posted up there too.
A good friend of mine said that our car are notorious for the hydraulic system needing to be bleed more than once or twice sometimes. Also to do it on a surface where the back on of the car is higher than the front. He said similiar issues happened to him and took him forever to figure it out. My driveway is sloped upwards and my cars front end is higher than the rear. So maybe he's right will check in the morning.
Updates tomorrow

Mean while if any of you have other comments feel free to ad to this. I can use any and all advice from you all that know about these cars

 

[l3igl3ang]

Im in the process of doing another tranmission swap on mine i found it to be easier from past exp not to undo any hydraulic lines rather then just unbolt the lines from the tranmission and move them to the side. Saves u from haveing any issues after words

 

[Hardin]

Yeah, it could be the hydralic lines..

-Hardin

 

[Mr PopUps]

Ok so guys there is a local DSM website here and i posted up there too.
A good friend of mine said that our car are notorious for the hydraulic system needing to be bleed more than once or twice sometimes. Also to do it on a surface where the back on of the car is higher than the front. He said similiar issues happened to him and took him forever to figure it out. My driveway is sloped upwards and my cars front end is higher than the rear. So maybe he's right will check in the morning.
Updates tomorrow

Mean while if any of you have other comments feel free to ad to this. I can use any and all advice from you all that know about these cars

[Club DSM] Clutch Pedal Engagement

 

[DeadsEvolution1]

Ok update:
I decided the bleed the system today. 30 minutes of bleeding it and it still squirts out the line like there is air in the line. No matter how much I bleed it it reacts the same.
How could this be? could my master slave be failing? None of the cylinders are leaking clutch fluid at all. none on my firewall and none spilling everywhere. So can anyone tell me why no matter how much I bleed it there still seems to be air in the line.

 

[01QuadDak]

Got some problems popping up after my build, I don't want to put many miles on it like this, I don't want major damage to occur. Anywho-
The trans is a Shep Stage 3 5K miles on it, no rockwells, AWD burnouts, or even visits to the track(no autox or drag). Only a few street launches, with no tire spin, working the clutch. Most of the miles were highway.
The Clutch is a powertrain technologies twin disc, with metal discs, 500 miles on it.
New MC(autozone reman), SS clutch line.

The car shifts like a bag of rocks, no grinding, its just hard to shift, lightning fast shifts are not an option.

The other problem is that it grinds slightly when engaging reverse, and the car acts like the clutch is dragging.

Both of these problems get worse as the car gets hot.

Could i have air in the line, or do i just need more of an adjustment to the pedal?

I'm just frustrated and in brain lock because i put so many hours into it already, and more dumb problems keep popping up. I guess i should expect it tho.

Any input?

 

[98gsxtuner]

Have you went on Jacks trasmissions website and looked on how to properly adjust the clutch???
Also have you bled the clutch???

 

[01QuadDak]

Bled the crap outta it when i put it together, I'm gonna have to go over everything with a fine tooth comb for leaks and air.
Just checked out jacks now, I'll try following that tomorrow.

Thnaks for the reply tho.

 

[98gsxtuner]

No problem I just adjusted mine today how he said to and my shifting doesn't feel notchy like it used to and it engages higher.

 

[01QuadDak]

No difference, I even adjusted it a little bit, and it still shifts like crap when warm.
Car also randomly vibrate like a sonofabitch until i depress the clutch, then it goes away for a bit.
I want to light the car on fire.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

If you are saying that you keep getting air in your clutch, and you have to bleed it frequently, I know what your problem is.

I'm not totally familiar with the 2Gs, but I've seen this before on other cars.

1) If you have a hose from your reservoir, to your clutch master, make sure it's clamped tightly at both ends, especially at the bottom.

2) There's a line on the reservoir that says MAX, don't fill it above that line!

When you push down the clutch, it pulls fluid from the reservoir and creates a vacuum. There has to be airspace in the reservoir that will expand when you push the clutch. The typical problem is that the reservoir is overfull so it sucks in air bubles at the bottom of the reservoir. Those air bubbles go directly into the master, and you get a spongy clutch, but don't loose any fluid.

Does this sound familiar?

Holy crap. This is such awesome information that my jaw literally dropped. I've had this exact issue forever and I've always filled the master either to the line or even a bit over "just cause" figuring it'd be fine. I'm going to test a slightly underfilled reservoir and check the results.

Eug, always air in the lines and never a single leak!
Thanks Colt4G63 and thanks Tom (Artago) for pointing me here.

 

[dsm91TalonTSi]

Adjusting the rod to the master worked flawlessly. might i add that the videos here were very helpful on proper adjusting.

 

[DeadsEvolution1]

If my slave cylinder is compressing and moving the fork could my master cylinder still be bad? none of them are leaking fluids

 

[mitsu_matt]

Ok, I figured out my problem! Turns out the little 12mm nut that bolts the Master to the inside of the firewall worked its way lose... needles to say when I was pushing in the clutch it was flexing the whole master therefore not fully disengaging the clutch. Tightened it up and its perfect!

 

[White1GST]

I have a few different questions so I figured I'd put them all in one topic. First of all I have a 90 GST and the tranny likes to grind sometimes. I've put Sycromesh tranny fluid and a new slave cylinder in both of which have helped. It will usually be fine when I first start driving but the more I drive the worse it gets. Its also hard to get into gear sometimes, I really have to force it, but other times its a nice easy shift. Are there any other things I should change/check out? Its the worst in reverse, it will work fine when I first start the car but after a few minutes of driving it likes to grind.

Also my clutch has some play in it when I release it it doesn't spring up all the way. Its about an inch where I can push it in and it won't do anything and I have to pull it back with my foot to get the clutch all the way out. Is this normal and if not how can I fix it?

Finally I'm looking for shifter bushings and short shifter. What shifter bushings are the best? What short shifters are available for the 90s? Every one I find seems to say its for every year besides 90.

Thanks for any answers or help you can give me.