Varying Clutch Engagement [Merged 1-9] bleeding air floor stuck grinding

[BoostInsideTSi]

Okay, folks, for some unknown reason, we're now getting three threads a week started about clutch malfunctions.
The usual cause is that the system hasn't been properly bled.

Have at it.

I put in a used, but in good condition master cylinder, to replace the one I had before with a broken rubber seal. I did not bleed any components, I simply took out the old one, and bolted the new one up. Then I proceeded to fill the reservoir with dot 3 brake fluid. Bubbles rose to the top of the reservoir, then I topped it off after the fluid ran down into the system. I looked at the clutch pedal and noticed it was still sitting on the floor. I tried pulling it up off the floor, but it only went up a few inches. Probably some adjusting that needs to be done with the rod is causing that. Anyway when I pull it up there is quite a bit of resistance, where when I let go the pedal just pulls right back to the floor. I've heard there is a vacuum going on, where with air in the system, it is just pulling that sucker right back. I tried pumping the crap out of the pedal with a friend opening the bleeder valve and I just shoot clutch fluid everywhere.. I Stop after about 50 pumps and put more fluid and keep going, but notice no improvement. Does anyone know what I need to do? Can anyone verify it is the air in the system causing my problem? Thank you,
Mike

 

[Yancy]

I have a 93 Talon TSI Awd Turbo that is all stock to my knowledge. When I got it, all the gears worked fine, though the clutch needs bled (only engages right at floor, and creeps a little then). I did try to bleed it once, got quite a bit of air out but it still only seems to work at the floor. I read you need to also push in the push rod to get the air out of the slave cylinder, and didn't do that, but I will once I figure out the rest of the issue, read on.

Recently, I went to drive it and discovered that it will not go into reverse. I have tried it even with the car off.. I've tried going into every other gear then reverse.. I've tried it with the car slightly rolling backwards running and not. The shifter won't even move back into that spot. To trouble shoot it I have:

Removed the shift linkage from the transmission and tried to actuate it manually with the same effect, no reverse. (I added the skate bearing mode to the linkage connections while I had them off and it went very smoothly other than the old bushing on the vertically oriented cable was stuck on from corrosion.)

Since it wouldn't shift manually at the tranny, I removed the reverse sensor switch to ensure it had the required washer, even though it had previously worked as was and hadn't been changed. Even with it completely removed, it will not go into reverse.

Having ruled out the linkage, and the sensor, I removed the end plate to check the 2 36mm(?) nuts as I had read they can spin off and cause issues. The nuts appear to be tight, the dimples into the shafts are in tact and grabbing them with my fingers there is limited movement of the lower shaft in and out only.. but it's very very slight. I haven't re-torqued them as not surprisingly I don't have a 36mm socket laying around. With the cover off, I had my wife try to run through the gears to see what moved, and reverse still will not go into its slot. It goes into 5th just fine, but seems to hang up when the shift fork pushes out after a point. There is a small amount of surface rust on the face of the geers here, not even 5% coverage.. just a few veins on the end surface.

Looking in my manual I see that there are a number of small parts (I don't have it hear to list them) related to the reverse gear. Is it possible that one of these has come loose and that I could simply remove the transmission and reconnect it to fix this problem? If so, is it something I could access by removing the 2nd portion of the case with the tranny still in the car, or will it have to be removed and stood up on a bench in order to get it far enough apart to fix? Or should I Just call the junk yard and find a new tranny?

FYI, I am on a very limited budget, I can afford a few hours to work on the car, I can't afford a new transmission so don't bother telling me I shouldn't get one from a salvage yard, I already know that's not the preferred route but sometimes ya gotta fix it for now, then fix it right later.

Thanks for your input.

 

[mindset]

Well, first off it sounds like you need a tranny rebuild. Because if you're going to have someone just fix the reverse problem then you're better off having them rebuild the entire tranny.

And I would never buy a used tranny from a junkyard. It's either a hit or miss situation as I like to call it. You could buy it and end up with the same exact problem.

I was going to say it might be your linkage but you already did what you were supposed to do (manually put it in gear with your hand). So all I can say is that it looks like you might need a trans rebuild. You can try changing out the fluid but I don't think it would solve the problem 100%.

 

[Yancy]

Thanks for the reply, but I had no intention of having somebody just fix the reverse problem. Perhaps you posted prior to my edit commenting on my economic status. If it is not reasonably possible to tear this apart and repair it myself, I'll take the risk and find a salvaged tranny for the time being. Given that there didn't seem to be any metal shavings etc present when I pulled the cover off, I'm thinking that something has just come loose and is preventing it from shifting into that position. If anyone has had this transmission apart and can comment on the complexity of the task I'd greatly appreciate it.

 

[EagleTalon1993]

Here are my thoughts on this issue, 1. bleed the clutch properly incuding the slave cylinder. 2. check pedal adjustment/function. Here's why my 1g manual states if you cannot shift from 1st gear to reverse smoothly there is mechanical damadge to the clutch or pedal adjustment is required. here are both articles and it's an inexpensive place to start troubleshooting.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-drivetrain/156805-1g-clutch-pedal-welding-bushing-how.html
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...how-properly-bleed-your-hydraulic-clutch.html

Mine gave me some grinding going into reverse until I replaced the entire clutch pedal assembly (got it at a scrap yard and bought the bushings new)

Hope this is helpfull

 

[Yancy]

I appreciate the link to the clutch bleeding article.. but I fail to see how the clutch would prevent the car from shifting into reverse when the car isn't even running.. i can run it through the other gears without even pressing the clutch.. is there some sort of lockout connected to the clutch that effects reverse?

 

[Yancy]

Ah hah.. here's the diagram I was thinking of:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-drivetrain/303419-manual-transmission-diagram.html

The parts I was wondering if they might come loose are the reverse components 44-46..

From the image I'd say it'd have to be removed to repair as I think the gears would all fall down without the second section of the case (26) there to hold them up...

 

[mindset]

Thanks for the reply, but I had no intention of having somebody just fix the reverse problem. Perhaps you posted prior to my edit commenting on my economic status. If it is not reasonably possible to tear this apart and repair it myself, I'll take the risk and find a salvaged tranny for the time being. Given that there didn't seem to be any metal shavings etc present when I pulled the cover off, I'm thinking that something has just come loose and is preventing it from shifting into that position. If anyone has had this transmission apart and can comment on the complexity of the task I'd greatly appreciate it.

I posted before your editing but I understand the situation now.
This should help.
Tranny Rebuild

 

[talon913]

ok so i just ordered a new clutch cause i thought my pressure plate would be the problem.for some reason the car wont go into gear when on then i turn it off and put it in gear and try to start it the car moves forward without even touching the clutch..and makes a little grinding noise for a second like my clutch is dragging??i just bout a new slave and bleed it but then i look under the dash and the rod coming out the master cylinder has a slight bit of oil on it. but i dont see a puddleWTF..is that normal?? and is it realy my pressure plate why i lost all clutch pedal pressure or could it be the master cylinder is leaking??please help cause i realy dont feel like dropping the tranny if i dont have to i kno its a common problem .

 

[EagleTalon1993]

Under the dash the actuator rod for the master cylinder should be fairly dry unless it was just installed. Does the clutch master cylinder resevoir have fluid in it ?
If it does have a helper pump the pedal while you look to see if the slave cylinder opens fully.
If not you may see bubbles in the resevoir while the pedal is moving that would indicate a bad seal in the master cylinder

If the slave cylinder is opening fully then it could be PP or even bent clutch fork or something in the clutch assembly itself. either way you would have to take it down if the master cylinder for the clutch is working and their is no air in the system.

Here's a good link to help you ensure the clutch master cylinder is bled and working properly
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...how-properly-bleed-your-hydraulic-clutch.html

 

[Yancy]

Now thats the link I needed, thanks alot.. Unfortunately it'll have to wait for now.. I need the car reverse or no as a daily driver during the week.. But I do plan to pull it all the way out as soon as I can make some other arrangement for transportation.

 

[talon913]

ok bro thanks how do u kno if the forkk is bent?? and my reservoir stays full without any bubbles when i pump the pedal..would my pp just mess up out of no were??my pedal goes almost to the floor and barely wants to come back up..thanks for the link

 

[talon913]

ok i just came from outside bleeding it the rite way like it said on the directions now i got a lil more pressure to the clutch pedal but it still wont go into gear...waht could it be now??

 

[talon913]

wow bro the exact thing is happening to me lool it happend out of no were i was just driving like normal..i just replaced the slave cylinder and it still wont got into gear when the car i off its just perfect this is happening to everybody i think theres a plague goin on ...i just ordered a new clutch but ima maybe replace the master even though i dont see a leak no were.

 

[Hubbard 0]

First, if your clutch master cylinder is leaking it usually means it's time for a replacement. It's a pretty simple job.

What it sounds like to me is your clutch rod isn't adjusted properly and the clutch isn't disengaging enough when you push the clutch pedal. A temporary fix would be to loosen the jamb nut on the clutch rod, then rotate the clutch rod itself clockwise. This will extend the rod and hopefully disengage the clutch more, allowing you to get the car in gear when it's on.

This will allow you to drive the car, but you should plan on replacing the master cylinder.

 

[dsm612]

I just put a new clutch in my car i did not have a problem with the clutch pedal before i done this . but now i have no clutch pedal i have replaced the clutch master and the slave still no pedal if some one can help me that wold be great dsm612

 

[viperbenz1]

does it go to gears?

 

[slickers111]

Maybe the assembly is shot?
Check if theres space between the tranny.

 

[dsm612]

it will go into gear win the car is off it is almost like i have a leak some were but i cant find it

 

[viperbenz1]

check inside, sometimes the master cylinder leaks on the carpet where you cant see it

 

[snowborder714]

Have you tried bleeding the clutch? Especially after replacing the master and slave, this needs to be done. Then you'll want to adjust the clutch, per this video (2nd one down - Proper Clutch Adjustment).
Transmission Videos

 

[dsm612]

i am going to get a new master cylinder and slave today so i hop it will help i have herd that the slave cylinder from auto part pleases are junk is this true

 

[viperbenz1]

i went through 3 of them in 1 year

 

[dsm612]

the slave cylinder. do you thank the oem is better than the auto parts plays if so let me know i put nothing but the best in my car she is like my best friend thanks for your help if you know something i do not let me now dsm612 to viperbenz1

 

[daren_p]

Did you properly bleed the system & adjust the master cylinder, like Brian mentioned above? More times then not, one of these is the cause.

 

[viperbenz1]

i would go with oem ,that what i did so far it didnt give me any problems