upgrading the stock 1g maf what are my options?

[TSi Kid]

I have everything do to my car that i can so far without upgrading my maf and injectors, so now i thought i would start to put some money away to do so

as i let this money pile up i thought i would look into some other options on what maf setup i should run

i want to max out my e3, 25lbs maybe creep it up to 28lbs, and i plan to stick to pump gas which is 91 octane out here

my original plan was to go with what my friends have which is a 3in gmaf and a translator but i was wondering my my other options may be and if this would be the best choice

im not going to run 550s and a 2g maf because theres not enough fuel for my goal

 

[cookmeup272]

I run a 2g maf with no problem.....

 

[92AWDHX40]

this was just covered but here you go gm maft, and 2g maf, do some searching and youll find lots of information.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

A 2g MAF will suffice. A GM Maf promotes air-flow and allows you to run Blow-Through setups.

Just use the search function for all of your research needs. This has been covered quite a bit.

 

[Calan]

Since it wasn't mentioned, I'll state the other option; switch to SD and get rid of the MAF all-together.

 

[TSi Kid]

whats an SD?

and with a 2g maf i was under the impression that i could only use 550 injectors
i'm looking at upgrading to 750's or 1000's

 

[Calan]

SD = Speed Density. It's an entirely different way of calculating airflow, with pros and cons over a MAF setup.

This thread is not the place to really discuss it in depth, as a semi-related debate will soon break out and lots of redundant information will be posted.

Just search for "speed density"; there are tons of threads on it.

 

[TSi Kid]

alright i'll go look it up
how much would a setup run me?

 

[Calan]

how much would a setup run me?

Go do some reading our young padawan.

 

[CardShark]

with a 2g maf i was under the impression that i could only use 550 injectors
i'm looking at upgrading to 750's or 1000's

This is definitely not true, I ran 720cc's on a 2G MAF with a blue-screen SAFC and made great power on a 20g back in the day. The limitation on what injectors you can run has more to do with what you are using for fuel correction/tuning that anything else.

 

[cookmeup272]

im running 1050's on a 50 trim using a 2g MAF and dsmlink v2.5

 

[TSi Kid]

why is it that the 1g maf can't handle bigger injectors then?

Go do some reading our young padawan

haha so far what i've seen is that its a toss up
people with maf's are going to SD and peopole with SD's are going to mafs
are maf's that much easier to tune?

 

[CardShark]

why is it that the 1g maf can't handle bigger injectors then?

It's not that the 1G MAF can't handle bigger injectors. Like I said, whatever you are using for fuel control (SAFC, DSM link, etc.) is the limiting factor in the size of injectors you can run.

It's more that it's pointless to run really big injectors with a 1G MAF. Say the 1G MAF starts becoming really restrictive at the airflow levels needed to make 350hp (I'm not sure if this HP level is correct), well then it would be pointless to run 1000cc injectors on this setup when 550cc injectors will get you to that horsepower level.

 

[gusu]

Speed density sucks. You have to tune after somewhat mino upgrades as well as any temperature change. The air isn't metered before combustion but after so if there is any reason for your AF to change you are screwed. If you want to waste your time tuning all the time for your track car you might as well same some hassle and money and do a N alpha set up and tune that every day. The GM maf is the only way to go. The 2g maf is my personal preference because you sometimes have to retune with a GM mad with altitude change though it us rare. The 2g mad however supports a lot of hp as well as not being a princess when it cones to tunes.

 

[cookmeup272]

How is the air metered after combustion? That makes no sense....especially when you have a MAP sensor on your manifold and usually a temperature sensor on your intercooler pipe.

 

[CardShark]

Speed density sucks. You have to tune after somewhat mino upgrades as well as any temperature change. The air isn't metered before combustion but after so if there is any reason for your AF to change you are screwed.

I have no idea what this means, perhaps you mistyped it. The air is certainly measured BEFORE combustion in a speed density system. Speed density definitely works well. I have it on my 1G and 2G but I'm running an AEM EMS.

A 2G MAF though works great and supports a good amount of horsepower. It's simplicity and cost make it the right choice for most 1G guys.

If anyone is interested, I have the 2G MAF off my '98 GSX. I'll sell it for $45 + shipping.

 

[Clinical]

I'm running a 2g MAF with 1150cc's on E85 and it works awesome.

Honestly I can't think of any REAL benefit to a GM maf over a 2g aside from people who want to vent their bov's

 

[Calan]

Speed density sucks. You have to tune after somewhat mino upgrades as well as any temperature change. The air isn't metered before combustion but after so if there is any reason for your AF to change you are screwed. If you want to waste your time tuning all the time for your track car you might as well same some hassle and money and do a N alpha set up and tune that every day. The GM maf is the only way to go. The 2g maf is my personal preference because you sometimes have to retune with a GM mad with altitude change though it us rare. The 2g mad however supports a lot of hp as well as not being a princess when it cones to tunes.

After reading this post, I'm not surprised that you have issues with speed density. Please don't post misleading information like this.

*****

OP - Speed density does require that you recalibrate the VE (volumetric efficiency) of your setup when you change anything that affects airflow (like swapping turbos, changing IC piping, etc.). But other than that, it is basically just a different way of calculating how much air the ECU sees.

Some people prefer tuning with a MAF, some prefer SD. MAF calibration is usually a little less time consuming, but SD gives you more resolution. SD doesn't have the expense of a MAF, but you need a tuning solution that supports it. Both methods work equally well once everything is dialed in properly.

Personally, I don't really even notice a difference anymore if I switch between one or the other.

 

[TSi Kid]

how big of a difference is there between a gm maf/SD or running a 2g maf in the aspect of tuning?

 

[Clinical]

2g MAF is easier to tune honestly than a GM MAF because you're still metering the air naturally, unless of course you're tuning with AEM EMS or something.

Speed Density has its pro's and con's over a traditional MAF setup. Its harder to tune but in the long run can perform better.

 

[TSi Kid]

i'm guna talk to the guy that does my tunes then and i guess i'll go with what he can tune the best with
(he chips eproms)

 

[lil corb]

what about a 3G/EVO8 MAF?

 

[RoasT BeeF]

Honestly I can't think of any REAL benefit to a GM maf over a 2g aside from people who want to vent their bov's

Well, it does have a higher limit than any of the Mitsubishi MAF sensors.

 

[gusu]

Since you are all experts here. Lets read a direct qoute from a actual expert.

"Speed Density systems accept input from sensors that measure engine speed (in rpm) and load (manifold vacuum in kPa), then the computer calculates airflow requirements by referring to a much larger (in comparison to an N Alpha system) preprogrammed lookup table, a map of thousands of values that equates to the engine’s volumetric efficiency (VE) under varying conditions of throttle position and engine speed. Engine rpm is provided via a tach signal, while vacuum is transmitted via an intake manifold-mounted Manifold Air Pressure (MAP) sensor. Since air density changes with air temperature, an intake manifold-mounted sensor is also used.

Production-based Speed Density computers also utilize an oxygen (O2) sensor mounted in the exhaust tract. The computer looks at the air/fuel ratio from the O2 sensor and corrects the fuel delivery for any errors. This helps compensate for wear and tear and production variables. Other sensors on a typical Speed Density system usually include an idle-air control motor to help regulate idle speed, a throttle-position sensor that transmits the percentage of throttle opening, a coolant-temperature sensor, and a knock sensor as a final fail-safe that hears detonation so the computer can retard timing as needed.

GM’s Tuned Port Injection (TPI) set-ups used Speed Density metering from ’90-’92, as did ’91-’93 LT1 engines. All ’86-’87 and ’88 non-California Ford 5.0L-HO engines used Speed Density metering. Most Mopar fuel- injection systems have used Speed Density too.

Because a Speed Density system still has no sensors that directly measure engine airflow, all the fuel mapping points must be preprogrammed, so any significant change to the engine that alters its VE requires reprogramming the computer. " - Taken from Carcraft.com.

Everyone I know who has run speed density has switched back from it for the exact reasons I have stated. Granted I live in Oregon and a 15 minute drive in practically any direction is a change in altitude of at least 500 feet. Go in the right direction and you are going up 1500.

 

[TSi Kid]

i know this is a generic question but if my pass time goal is high 11s is that an achievable goal with a 2g maf and e85?
i'd be running 1000cc injectors off my e3 16g