Update on 420At

[DSMcrazy3]

Very nice numbers, try to get a vid even, of the next dyno run. I want to see the 420a motor as it puts down numbers like that.. and I'm not doubting, just stating that I would like to see it.

 

[awddynamite]

Sorry for posting so late, but I had a real long talk with doug at the dyno shop...

That was his car on the track and was the same car that dyno'd a few days back, even confirmed by Doug. Here are some pics of the dyno, I had him print it out for me sorry AWD he said you wouldn't mind probably.

Just showing so this doesn't turn into another suieclipse thread..^.^

glad to see you got your numbers up there as well, you should invest in some slicks im VERY SURE that you could get some mid to high 12sec passes with those numbers, as they are close to what i was making when i was hitting 12.4s if not better since you were on a mustang dyno which GIVES LOAD TO THE VEHICLE, hence lower numbers than if you were on a dyno jet with no load.

 

[Talon ESI-T]

I dont understand what you mean by the Dynajet not placing load on the car. That doesnt make sense. The numbers are higher because it doenst place load on the vehicle? So based on that statement your saying the dynapack doesnt either. I dont buy it, i know for a fact the dynpack does, i'v seen it.

12.4 is surely possible with 22psi depending on your level of skill. Mike Homan just put down 13.04 with 24psi and ametuer skill. What i dont understand is why your torque is so low.

How is the correction factor figured for WHP. To me that seems like speculation since the dyno cant figure the amount of tire slippage or the type of tire. 377 is still very nice either way. I just dont understand the torque value being low.

Spinning fourth is easy at the PSI level guys. I was spinning into 4th with the 3.94 trans and 18psi. with the 355 i can break third loose.

 

[cs82685]

12.4 is surely possible with 22psi depending on your level of skill. Mike Homan just put down 13.04 with 24psi and ametuer skill. What i dont understand is why your torque is so low.

actually he said that pass was at 20 psi and when he turned it up to 24 he blew a coupler off.

 

[TREV TEC]

You people are rediculous.

12.4@108 was done with 16 psi on a bone stock long block.

He was making 308whp on a Dynojet at the time.

If that other guys car made 238 at 8 psi, its clearly possible to make 308 on 16 psi.

Justins engine is now packed with Pistons and Rods.

You do not need more than 308 whp to trap 108 mph, which is what you need to be looking at with the time.

You do need to pay attention to the fact he was on slicks, cutting low 1.7 60 fts. Thats why it was so quick. You keep saying this guy went 13.0 with 24 psi. Ive seen people running 30 psi go 13s, they go 13.0@130, because there either ####ing up or missing gears or spinning down the whole track.

Dynojet read 15% higher than a Mustang, use your google search and you will find it.

405whp on a Mustang is about 465 on a dynojet.


Im spacing this out so it makes it easier to read so you dont skip the facts.



The reason the 420a make more power at lower Boost than a 4G63, which yes would take 22-24 psi to run a 12.4 depending on the turbo, is because they run higher compression and probably just like Justin are not using anything to pull timing. Justins 405whp was made on C16 race gas and unless he was seeing any knock he was fully advanced in his timing because the computer does not pull timing for boost. Thats why they make such good power on low boost.

I hope this cleared somthing up, if not you people should maybe visit the turbo section for a while and read up because even though the engine is different the principles are the same.

 

[TREV TEC]

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-123629978.html

Just incase were real scepticle about the whole Dynojet vs. Mustang dyno thing this is a pretty good article on it that will explain to you how each work.

 

[TREV TEC]

http://www.eldemoniorojo.com/calculator.htm

here is a good 1/4 mile calculator that uses speed instead of E.T. This makes it a little more accurate because in general, no matter what your ET is pass to pass the MPH isnt going to change by much.

3100 lbs with Driver is what his car weighs, comes to 309whp with 108 trap, pretty damn close huh?

 

[TREV TEC]

He is still reading Im sure......

 

[TalonESIT]

I dont understand what you mean by the Dynajet not placing load on the car. That doesnt make sense. The numbers are higher because it doenst place load on the vehicle? So based on that statement your saying the dynapack doesnt either. I dont buy it, i know for a fact the dynpack does, i'v seen it.

"A mustang dyno is a "loaded" dyno. A load is placed on the roller to simulate real world driving conditions. Dynojets are inertia dynos', just a big drum in the floor for your car so spin up. MD's are a more accurate measure of true rwhp. Lots of info here:"
http://www.germanmotorcars.com/Dyno_...0inertia_1.htm

Hope this clears things up a little more.

 

[XMasta19]

Stop posting this stuff like we don't know what's going on...all we've been debating here is the fact that's it's truly a 420a and why there are no vids/pics to go with it. All that dyno sheet says is 95 Eagle Talon, so why not show off that sexy 420a powaahhh

 

[TREV TEC]

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Its clearly not a GST, but I have some pics of the engine bay at the shop and I will post them when I get there.

 

[Blitzeclips]

You people are rediculous.


You do need to pay attention to the fact he was on slicks, cutting low 1.7 60 fts. Thats why it was so quick. You keep saying this guy went 13.0 with 24 psi. Ive seen people running 30 psi go 13s, they go 13.0@130, because there either ####ing up or missing gears or spinning down the whole track.

Im spacing this out so it makes it easier to read so you dont skip the facts.


I hope this cleared somthing up, if not you people should maybe visit the turbo section for a while and read up because even though the engine is different the principles are the same.

Dude, just stop talking. Don't come into the forums and tell us to check out the turbo section. We know the 420a, and that's what we modify. That car isn't even yours. So stop playing the role and think before you post. Please post the pics.

Regardless if it wads a stock motor or not, I don't think either of you realize how lucky you were to not blow it up. I meen, VERY VERY VERY lucky. You are probably the only one thus far who's done that. It doesn't take skill. It doesn't take mods. It takes luck. You did nothing but turbo the car and slap on slicks for the 12.4 pass. You didn't swap rods and pistons, change CR, or tune deal with cam gears, timing, etc. You had an OEM STOCK motor. You lucked out with 22psi on it. Great job.

Nice numbers. Try not coming on here telling us what we need to do though. Also, we
'd ap[preciate it if you didn't come on here bashing the 420 a too. Hence, your contradicting 420 g-a-y. That's where you lose credit and respect. You laid it down, but don't be an asshat about it.

 

[awddynamite]

Dude, just stop talking. Don't come into the forums and tell us to check out the turbo section. We know the 420a, and that's what we modify. That car isn't even yours. So stop playing the role and think before you post. Please post the pics.

Regardless if it wads a stock motor or not, I don't think either of you realize how lucky you were to not blow it up. I meen, VERY VERY VERY lucky. You are probably the only one thus far who's done that. It doesn't take skill. It doesn't take mods. It takes luck. You did nothing but turbo the car and slap on slicks for the 12.4 pass. You didn't swap rods and pistons, change CR, or tune deal with cam gears, timing, etc. You had an OEM STOCK motor. You lucked out with 22psi on it. Great job.

Nice numbers. Try not coming on here telling us what we need to do though. Also, we
'd ap[preciate it if you didn't come on here bashing the 420 a too. Hence, your contradicting 420 g-a-y. That's where you lose credit and respect. You laid it down, but don't be an asshat about it.

so what you are saying is we just put a turbo on it then did nothing, no tuning (the several hours on the dyno were just to listen to the car in one spot)
second i had posted that i did it not caring if i did blow the motor in the first place and who said anything about 22psi on a stock motor once again it was 16psi, i also never said what any of you should do with YOUR cars i started the subject as UPDATE ON MY 420G-A-Y not yours and im sure you know what you are doing with your car

 

[TREV TEC]

http://www.trevtec.com/Trevstuff/IMG_0182.JPG
http://www.trevtec.com/Trevstuff/IMG_0179.JPG

What do you wanna hear? That were profesionals? Yes, I own an import shop and I build and tune cars. There was nothing lucky about what happen with his car. We tuned the car, monitored A/F and Knock, the car was tuned perfectly and running on Good gas and thats why it didnt blow up.

Update, The engine is built now. We never ran over 16 psi on the stock motor. It now has seem 22psi and still made 405 whp with the wastgate bleeding the boost off to 14 psi by redline. Sorry if somehow lead you to believe we were some 16 year old kids from Po Dung USA. Justin also owns a 700whp 1st Gen AWD, this Talon is just a daily driver and we thought we would share what could be done with these cars with a little money and a little know how.

Keep images to 700x700 pixels or less. - V

 

[TalonESIT]

THANK YOU TREVTEC!....

Now there is nothing more to say.

Great numbers and I hope i can meet you guys at DDP next time you go so I can see the car!

 

[TREV TEC]

http://www.trevtec.com/Trevstuff/IMG_0288.JPG

Is it gonna be ok to post Dyno number and time slips after the new turbo(T3/T67) is installed and tuned on 30 psi?

 

[Blitzeclips]

Dude, it's not WHAT you posted. It's HOW you posted it. Read your first post again. Just because you're a professional and own a tuning shop doesn't meen you can't be an ass or do things wrong. I know of PLENTY of shops that are filled with professionals who tune all day but do piss-poor work. Not saying you are like this is any way, so no offense, but just because you own a shop, doesn't meen you can jump on the forums and tell us to do our research. Then say to check out the turbo forums Then say we're rediculous Do you not see the trend yet?

And YES, you were incredibly lucky *with that motor*. VERY lucky in fact. You need to realize that motor was not meant to handle past 10psi TOPS. For you to run 16 psi on one for more then a year is VERY, VERY, VERY lucky. I don't care what tuning, monitoring, or anything was done, if the motor is damaged it is prone to failure. It goes from a scratch, to a scrape, to a gouge, to a crack. Under 16 pounds of boost for a year, this process will speed up. Simple as that. Where DON'T you see luck in this?

Please feel free to post the list and dyno sheets. But instead of waving the bragging sheets, why don't you give us some insight on the mods, units, and testing for such great numbers and times?

 

[TREV TEC]

Nobody was bragging, he posted what happen. Then you have to come in here and paint this thread with your bullshit flags and ignorance. 1 pass is lucky, 5 passes is lucky, maybe a month is lucky. But a whole year is not lucky. Thats like saying, "oh, I jumped off twelve 10 story buildings and lived ever time, I sure am lucky!!". Would you think that was luck or something just a little more?

 

[TREV TEC]

That doesn't look like a Tial to me...maybe that's the problem

Can you say XS POWER!! FTW.. BUt really its probably a 5-6 psi spring in it and its needs a 15 or more. Usually there good till double the boost. It holds ok till 16psi. He wants to get a real Tial on there. This kit was built from spare parts and cheapo EBAY stuff. Only thing we really spent money on is the Fuel System and Ignition, which is the most important part.

 

[XMasta19]

Yeah...because a real wastegate isn't important apparently

You can do all this pimp tuning and mad hp cars in your awesome shop, yet you have xs power parts involved in the mix of things Like I've been saying...how bout some pics and vids of the car on the dyno, and actually out on the street playing some.

 

[TalonESIT]

Dude, it's not WHAT you posted. It's HOW you posted it. Read your first post again. Just because you're a professional and own a tuning shop doesn't meen you can't be an ass or do things wrong. I know of PLENTY of shops that are filled with professionals who tune all day but do piss-poor work. Not saying you are like this is any way, so no offense, but just because you own a shop, doesn't meen you can jump on the forums and tell us to do our research. Then say to check out the turbo forums Then say we're rediculous Do you not see the trend yet?

And YES, you were incredibly lucky *with that motor*. VERY lucky in fact. You need to realize that motor was not meant to handle past 10psi TOPS. For you to run 16 psi on one for more then a year is VERY, VERY, VERY lucky. I don't care what tuning, monitoring, or anything was done, if the motor is damaged it is prone to failure. It goes from a scratch, to a scrape, to a gouge, to a crack. Under 16 pounds of boost for a year, this process will speed up. Simple as that. Where DON'T you see luck in this?

Please feel free to post the list and dyno sheets. But instead of waving the bragging sheets, why don't you give us some insight on the mods, units, and testing for such great numbers and times?

Blitz, easy man no need for any further arguing. Someone pulled a bs card and they were tested for it, and proved their legitamacy. When anyone is challenged they will get just as defensive as the next person. So they titled the thread inappropriately, this whole thread was not made to bash on the 420a. These guys actually put a lot of time and effort into the motor, and in all reality I doubt they did it because they thought the car was crap.

They went through numerous runs and tests, Doug went through A LOT of scrolling through AWD's old dyno sheets to find the most updated one (and yes they were all from this car).

Xmasta: big deal so they used some cheaper parts, they didn't try to hide it, his first post said the car tapered off in boost due to a crappy wastegate. Man! what else do you want from them. I would be more than happy to personally provide a video so you guys will cut the arguing. I mean do you really need one that bad to be convinced?!

So can we just get back on topic, eventhough there really isn't much of a topic now since they have proved to be legit.

When are you guys going for another run at the tracks?
Can you share a little info on the difficulties you ran into while attaining such power?

 

[awddynamite]

Blitz, easy man no need for any further arguing. Someone pulled a bs card and they were tested for it, and proved their legitamacy. When anyone is challenged they will get just as defensive as the next person. So they titled the thread inappropriately, this whole thread was not made to bash on the 420a. These guys actually put a lot of time and effort into the motor, and in all reality I doubt they did it because they thought the car was crap.

They went through numerous runs and tests, Doug went through A LOT of scrolling through AWD's old dyno sheets to find the most updated one (and yes they were all from this car).

Xmasta: big deal so they used some cheaper parts, they didn't try to hide it, his first post said the car tapered off in boost due to a crappy wastegate. Man! what else do you want from them. I would be more than happy to personally provide a video so you guys will cut the arguing. I mean do you really need one that bad to be convinced?!

So can we just get back on topic, eventhough there really isn't much of a topic now since they have proved to be legit.

When are you guys going for another run at the tracks?
Can you share a little info on the difficulties you ran into while attaining such power?

hopefully by the beggining of this next week i will have a new tranny and a wastegate then our goals for time wise is NOV. 8th at wednesday night street wars, then we will have it redynoed between 26-28psi with a gate made for leaded gas as well, we are hoping for low 11s and a quick boot off the track. but rent comes first. it should be ready by then, its not to much to ask.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

You need to realize that motor was not meant to handle past 10psi TOPS.

Actually, this version of the 420A wasn't meant to handle any boost at all. The fact that it has been proven to handle 10psi with adequate tuning is a testament to its design.

Like already mentioned, knock is one of the biggest factors that leads to a piston or rod's demise under boost, especially in this case. If you could effectively eliminate knock through good tuning, I don't see why the stock internals shouldn't be able to handle a little bit more than 10psi. In fact, I don't think anyone has actually ever investigated how far the engine can be pushed on stock internals if knock weren't an issue...

The thing to remember is, most people don't have the means to tune very well, and when they try to turn up the boost using an S-FMU and some 440's, all hell breaks loose. It's seems that this car was tuned very well, and so we are obliged to show you at least a little respect for that.


Now, for everyone else, he's shown us the dyno sheets... what else can we ask for? The drama stops here. If you have questions about the car or the setup, feel free, but stop attacking this guy's numbers.

 

[totaleclipse_05]

Thank you Paul. This thread was getting annoying with all the haters.

Congrats AWD on your numbers again. I don't see why everyone doubts that you put 16 psi on a stock engine and it still ran. Tuning is everything with cars. If you have no to little tuning done, yes you would be asking for trouble turning it up anymore than 8 psi.

 

[BigRand]

AWD, thanks for the info and taking the time to test the limits of your 420a T.

I think I'll be taking a trip out to vegas at some point to check out the shop in person.

Maybe I missed it in one of the other posts. But I was wondering what compression pistions you are using on your current setup?