turbo upgrade time, what to go with

[MyBeatGSX]

I don't really need more replies anyway. I got all I need out of this topic: cams are easy to install (and I'll be getting some soon), the 5031e will work just fine for me, Link is recommended over a chip, and people on tuners don't like any approach other than their own and you will be flamed if you bring different experiences/backgrounds to the discussion.
I proved I was right with the compressor maps. I think its time to call it a day. This, kiddies, is the perfect example of why you do your own research before taking the advice of people online.

 

[compression]

i wasnt knocking you either, im accually saving money for guess what , a larger turbo as well , because i just hate watching the boost gauge hit 26 and fall back down to 19psi , i understand what kind of power you want to make , but what do you want it for? drag racing? street driving?

 

[MyBeatGSX]

Street racing is an evil word around here so I'll say drag racing even though my car sees the track about 1-2 days a year.

Honestly, I don't even understand the meaning of power for "street driving". As far as I'm concerned this thing has enough power for "street driving" with no turbo at all. In fact I drive completely off boost everywhere I go. I don't understand this concept of needing boost off idle for "the street", why do you need that? Do you make pulls off every light on the way to work or do you like to climb hills at 1,500rpm? If I'm boosting on the street its because I'm racing someone in which case the tach won't ever see below 5k, so what do you need power down there for?

Once again, its just IMO and I know its completely different than everyone else here because its been discussed in other topics.

And wow, dropping to 19psi? You must have some serious head work or a stroker or something.

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

i tested the GT32s way back when PTE first introduced them in the DSM platform and i must say we were no impressed. We got more lag with less power. The EVOIII will do what you want with the right tuning and have all the quick spool you could want.

 

[grnchevyz]

MyBeat: I'm glad you figured out the route you want to go with. I agree with you on the do your research first, semi-make up your idea and then ask for suggestions. Compile it all and make a decision. Ultimately, it doesn't matter what we say or tell you you can accomplish with such and such a turbo with such and such add-ons, all that matters is waht YOU want and what YOU decide.

I know its been said before but remember that the only thing people are trying to do here is helping you get where you want while getting all you can with what you have. Say that 7 times quick

Anyway, let me know how you make out and how you like your setup please as I am looking to do that over the winter BUT I wanted to explore the Bastard 20g in the TD06 housing. Have you looked at that turbo at all? Just wondering if you looked at maps for it and compared it with the one you are going with...I'm still a little new to compressor maps so I'm still trying to figure them out...trust me, I will though.

anyway, enough rambling! Hope you get what you want out of the setup you chose

 

[MyBeatGSX]

Thanks man.

So if you got a 6H housing on the Bastard 20G, would that be just like a regular 20G? It'd be a 20G wheel, 20G compressor housing, and 7cm2 turbine housing...

I only took at passing glance at that turbo, not even enough to notice the 6H was an option if that's any indication of how thoroughly I looked.

 

[grnchevyz]

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking too...and for $899 can't go wrong seeing as I can bolt it right on and have change for cams. Where would I get compressor maps and maybe a how-to read them thingy-a-ma-bob?

 

[91-gsx]

Thanks man.

So if you got a 6H housing on the Bastard 20G, would that be just like a regular 20G? It'd be a 20G wheel, 20G compressor housing, and 7cm2 turbine housing...

I only took at passing glance at that turbo, not even enough to notice the 6H was an option if that's any indication of how thoroughly I looked.

I too was interested in the bastard 20g, but if you could find the thread were they tried all of the internally gated turbos, you will notice that the bastard 20g drops off in power way before redline. It basically acts like a 16g, but with more peak power and torque, but then falls quickly by redline.
later

 

[MyBeatGSX]

I too was interested in the bastard 20g, but if you could find the thread were they tried all of the internally gated turbos, you will notice that the bastard 20g drops off in power way before redline. It basically acts like a 16g, but with more peak power and torque, but then falls quickly by redline.
later

Yup, didn't see that before. Also didn't see that the upgrade is for the hot side, the 16G compressor cover remains and that wheel is just way too big for that housing, I wouldn't even want to see the compressor chart. I think that rules that one out unless you're going for a sleep look.

 

[fourreGsixty3]

It seems that the bastard 20Gs are in the 700-800$ range where the TD 06 20Gs are in the 1200$ range>>>http://linux.forcedperformance.net/...roduct_Code=NTDSM20G6&Category_Code=DSM-Turbo.
Also on a side note, what local shop are you waiting for to have EPROMs Tyler? Does VR sell them? If so how much?
Glad to see that you figured out what you want to do with your car, and now that you have all the items lined up. It should be a pretty fast GSX Tyler

Dustin

 

[andymoraitis]

Or we could just call this thread by different title like:

"How not to achieve optimal volumetric efficiency on a DSM"

Threads like this would really bother me if I didn't have a sense of humor, but I have to agree with Aslan that this is entirely the wrong way to maximize your combo. I especially love the part about compressor efficiency. Somebody get in touch with ShapeGSX right away and tell him that he needs a bigger turbo that's more efficient to run 11's instead of sticking with his EVO III.

 

[Kevin Jewer]

Well, I don't think I would go that far. I think he just has some strong opinions, and he's entitled to do things his way. Saying anything more is probably just asking for an arguement.

I'm jumping into this thread a bit late, having read the last three pages. Most poeple should be aware of my take on this, and I discussed it a bit in the thread linked to on the previous page. But to comment on a few things I see on this page,

- Any EVO 16g 2 liter with cams will drop to 19-20 psi by redine. My EVO8 does the same thing.

-I feel that a 20g should only be used in the larger housings, since it flows a good bit above the EVO 16g (48lbs vs 42 lbs). I really liked the 6H 20G, but you are right, they are not cheap. A 50 trim will do 50 lbs/min for less money. If you want to stay modern, the BB GT3076 moves 55 lbs/min and is a great match for a 2 liter motor (takes a good 30 psi to max it out).

-Compressor efficiency is less important than people think, discussed more in the linked thread, but wanted to touch on it again. My EVO went 12.0 at 115 with the turbo maxed and boost dropping, and then 11.52 at 122 on a 75 shot with the same conditions otherwise. The maxed out turbo didn't seem be a limiter on nitrous (exhuast side for example) since I picked up exactly what I would expect from a 75 shot. A local NEDSMer went 11.7 at 117 on an identical stock turbo EVO also with the turbo completely maxed out. He went 12.2 at 113 on pump gas, and I did 12.3 at 110-111. Just some examples of completely maxed turbos running what you would expect them to, thanks to good intercooling. Of course a bigger turbo will be a better way to go if the lag is acceptable, I just don't like to use the compressor efficiency excuse to make that decision.

I got all I need out of this topic: cams are easy to install (and I'll be getting some soon), the 5031e will work just fine for me, Link is recommended over a chip,

Good choice on the cams (more flow at the same boost = good for pump gas power) and DSMlink, of course. I think I would agree with the others, cams and DSMlink now would make a nice improvement on your current turbo, but the choice is yours. DSMlink is super easy to tune, I wouldn't wait until the spring. It's driveable as soon as you install it. In fact you're somewhat local to me, for people that are not complete touchholes I offer tuning help for food, when I can find the time. I tune year round, DSMlink is easy. Gotta do something during the extremely long off season...

 

[andymoraitis]

Any EVO 16g 2 liter with cams will drop to 19-20 psi by redine. My EVO8 does the same thing.

I'm not trying to contradict this Kevin, but Shape's boost curve runs a spike to 30 that only drops to 24 psi by redline. He uses a 272/264 combo though so I'm not sure if that has an effect. On the stroker, the 19-20 psi figure with cams would be more than accurate. When I wired the flapper shut, that's the max I'd see from 5500-7000.

Anyway, I digress...

 

[2gGSX]

Andy wouldn't the addition of cams increase volumetric efficiency beyond the stock setup, especially in the higher RPM range? If that's the case then maybe the answer to his setup is in fact correlated to my suspicions--freak turbo

 

[wishihadatalon]

I'm not trying to contradict this Kevin, but Shape's boost curve runs a spike to 30 that only drops to 24 psi by redline. He uses a 272/264 combo though so I'm not sure if that has an effect. On the stroker, the 19-20 psi figure with cams would be more than accurate. When I wired the flapper shut, that's the max I'd see from 5500-7000.

Anyway, I digress...

Mine usually spikes at 30ish and holds aroudn 22-23ish. Also 109 on pump with 1 low cylinder and 116mph on 93/110 mix. No cams though

 

[Ludachris]

I don't really need more replies anyway. I got all I need out of this topic

Great, then I don't see why it has to remain open any longer. It turned into a Evo16g vs. 50-trim thread, of which we already have many to choose from.

I got all I need out of this topic: cams are easy to install (and I'll be getting some soon), the 5031e will work just fine for me, Link is recommended over a chip,

Glad you were able to get some good information from some people on our site. A good number of people here have some good experience to share.

and people on tuners don't like any approach other than their own and you will be flamed if you bring different experiences/backgrounds to the discussion.

Just because someone challenges your logic doesn't mean they're flaming you. Yes, there were some rude comments posted that we could have done without, but most of them were removed anyway. Your initial posts in this thread indicated that you wanted help but were also very set against changing your stance on some things even when information was presented, which likely frustrated a few people. But challenging logic and healthy debating is how you get the best information. You started out not wanting to do anything but swap the turbo. With some of our members challenging your thinking you ended up deciding to go with cams, DSMlink, and got info about the turbo you plan to go with. It wasn't exactly a smooth road, but it was obviously helpful in the end. Granted, we can do more to try and keep the insults out of discussions like this where everyone doesn't agree.

This, kiddies, is the perfect example of why you do your own research before taking the advice of people online.

And a good example of why getting advice from people online who have gone down the same road you're looking to travel can be very beneficial as well. No, you're not always going to receive the best advice online. But you also have to learn how to determine what advice is good and what is bad. Seems to me you came away with some good info and changed your plans due to advice you received here. If you would have gone off of just your own research, you wouldn't be making some of the changes that people here suggested (cams, DSMlink, type of turbo). Nice to see how much the advice from our site influenced your decsions. It's good to know our forums do offer good information

And since this topic has run its course and the original author has stated that he got all the information he needed, we'll close this thread and will likely go through and delete pieces of information so that newbies don't come away with bad information. Thanks to all who have helped out.