turbo upgrade time, what to go with

[99gst_racer]

I'm tired of editing and deleting crap in this thread. If everyone can post constructively, then this will stay open. Let's try to stay on the topic of the original post, and not think out of the box. And subtle attitudes will definitely help this thread progress in the right direction.

 

[fourreGsixty3]

Your welcome Tyler. Yes, they are a good amount smaller then the ones you posted. I cant post personal experience Tyler, but my suggestion is call up the company that makes those turbo's and talk with someone that deals just with those turbo's. Im sure they could give you the low down, on each of them, like when they hit full spool, ect, ect...
EDIT: Very nicely stated Paul.

Dustin

 

[MyBeatGSX]

Funny you should say that FourreG, because I'm just about to pick up my phone and call extremepsi and then see if PTE has a tech line, or maybe I'll see what what the guys at VR have to say.


Paul, by all means lock the topic. But please don't delete it completely. I want to be able to link to it every time someone recommnends a larger turbo to me or anyone else. Because we have now confirmed (with no evidence ironically) that the Evo III, running on 93 octane pump gas, with not sort of water/meth/alc injection will do 350hp ALL DAY LONG!

 

[MyBeatGSX]

Your focused to much on PEAK NUMBERS!

If that's my preference then who gives a shit! I don't know why people drive ugly 1G's, but they do. If someone was considering buying a 1G because they said they liked 1G's and asked me if I thought it was in good condition, what would I say? "GET A 2G YOU IDIOT! 2G'S GO JUST AS FAST!!" Of course not. I'd just answer the question.

I'm not buying a T70. I'll lose 500rpm worth of spool MAYBE. The amazingly instant spooling Evo III doesn't even make 20psi until like 3,300rpm. Like I said before, power under 4,000rpm, who cares? The tach needle never even sees near that low during a race.

 

[oldman]

Tyler, when Paul said "play nice", he was mainly talking to you. You have a tendency to be rude whenever people disagree, hell you were already rude in your OP before anyone even reponded. This has got to stop, start by stop using the smilie.

 

[NosLaser]

Why do you guys run a SMIM on a 400hp car when you can physically fit 400++hp worth of air through a 1G manifold?

I didn't. My Laser made 423 WHEEL HP and 428 WHEEL TQ on a small 16g using the stock 1G intake manifold.

Why do you use tubular manifolds when you can make 500+hp on a ported 2G?

I didn't. My Laser made the above HP/TQ using a ported 2g manifold. Did I mention this was on a small 16g? UNCLIPPED too.

Why do you use 850cc injectors on your 370hp car when 650cc's will flow 370hp all day long?

I didn't. My Laser making the above power was run on 660cc injectors, a 255lph in tank pump, adjustable FPR, -8 lines, stock fuel rail, etc. Oh yeah, on that 16g you hate so much.

You love maxing out turbos, why not max out other parts as well? Why not fail until each part physically fails before upgrading it.

I did. Well, half of what you said anyway. My car didn't break because I tuned it properly. On a small 16g.

Why upgrade to a GM MAF when 90% of you can't outflow a 2G MAF?

I didn't. In fact, I used a 1G MAS. I think converting to a blow through style MAF is about the dumbest thing you can do to a turbo car, but people have had luck with it, so more power to them.

Why go 6 bolt head when people make 400+hp on stock 7 bolts?

The bolts are referring to the flywwhels, not the cylinder heads. Just FYI. But to answer your question, my friends and I DID make 400 wheel HP on a stock 2G bottom end when we were R&D'ing the very first MUTT turbo. That car never had a mechanical failure either.

Why upgrade to a 2600 when the stock clutch hadn't started slipping yet?

Mine slipped. I upgraded. But I wouldn't bother upgrading until you had a problem with it, or had to pull the tranny for some other reason. I'm a big believer in doing stuff "while you are in there."

Why upgrade BOVs when you could just turn the 2G one backwards?

I didn't. I used a stock 1G BOV.

Why use a 3" exhaust when a 2.5" will flow enough for 95% of people?

Lots of reasons; could be looks related, which company they go with, etc. You are REALLY reaching on this one.

This is retarded.

Well, you finally said something I agree with.

A 16G WILL NOT MAKE AN EFFICIENT 350AWHP!! Its not even debatable, its a dead issue.

Says who? Do you have proof backing that up, or is it just something you heard? Touche. Maybe YOUUUU can't make 350HP with a 16g.

Just out of curiosity. And I can't wait to hear this one. What Intercooler are you running?

Regards,

 

[MyBeatGSX]

You want the fattest power band, most people aviable at all times

I have plenty of people available at all times. Its why I have lots of friends and a cell phone.


Alas, you can't make good power down low AND up top. You have to one or the other, or half of both.

 

[99gst_racer]

Paul, by all means lock the topic.

I'd rather leave it open. A constructive discussion is better than a locked argument. As long as everyone can play nice and bring real information to the table, this thread may be able to aid others in search for a turbo upgrade.

So, I'll just continue to delete the unneeded posts and start handing out warnings.


You could try to build your own turbo, but unless you have a "hook-up" on the parts, it probably will end up costing more money.

The FP Green would be my #1 50-trim choice. Most people seem to make more power and run faster times on that 50-trim as apposed to most other 50-trims. And FP has always been known to put out a good product. The price is the only salty part of the deal.

I was just on SBR's site and noticed the G50 for $699 and the PTE SCM-5031E for $799. I wonder what the difference is.....? I was under the assumption that SBR used Turbonetics CHRA's in their bolt-on turbo's just like PTE.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

Tyler, when Paul said "play nice", he was mainly talking to you. You have a tendency to be rude whenever people disagree, hell you were already rude in your OP before anyone even reponded. This has got to stop, start by stop using the smilie.

You've delt with me in PMs on one more than one occation and you know damn well I'm far from a rude person. My OP was not rude. I was attempting to head off exactly what I knew this would turn into, so much for that. As hard headed as you might think I am, people here are just as hard headed and don't like anyone that disagrees with them. Sorry if I got carried away, but it pisses me off to watch the purpose of my thread get destroyed in first 3 replies.

And to clarify the arguement. Do you believe this is a true or false statement:

the Evo III, running on 93 octane pump gas, with not sort of water/meth/alc injection will do 350hp ALL DAY LONG!

 

[JOEY A]

With a Green or a 50trim you will make good bottum end, mid, and high
Hey buddy your the one who said PUMP Gas daily driving and now your talking about 1/4 racing?
Which is it your looking for?
None of those turbos are on and off switchs, You just want some DYNO Qween.
Your not looking at anything but 350hp, and people with 14Bs go 12s with under 300hp!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[NosLaser]

IAlas, you can't make good power down low AND up top. You have to one or the other, or half of both.

Oh Jesus Christ. My Laser made over 400 WHEEL TQ from 3000rpm all the way to 6000rpm. Maybe if you learned a thing or two about cars you would know how to get a real powerband.

Regards,

 

[MyBeatGSX]

Just out of curiosity. And I can't wait to hear this one. What Intercooler are you running?

Regards,

Then I believe all of that would make you the exception to the rule. Show my 15 other people that have accomplished the same thing with the same parts and I'll keep my 16G.

Notice, I never said it COULDN'T make 350hp, I said it wouldn't be an EFFICIENT 350hp. If you love 16G's then more power to you, but that doesn't mean because you broke 400hp on one, then everyone that wants 400hp should go out and buy a s16G or that everyone currently making 400hp should sell what they have and get a 16G to have more power under the curve


I have no idea which way you're going take the IC thing, but its right in my profile. Its a 24x12x3 side-side flow bar/plate.

And let me ask you out of curiosity... on what octane gas did you make those numbers and how many gallons of alcohol/water/meth did you go through on that pull?

 

[JOEY A]

Then I believe all of that would make you the exception to the rule. Show my 15 other people that have accomplished the same thing with the same parts and I'll keep my 16G.

Notice, I never said it COULDN'T make 350hp, I said it wouldn't be an EFFICIENT 350hp. If you love 16G's then more power to you, but that doesn't mean because you broke 400hp on one, then everyone that wants 400hp should go out and buy a s16G or that everyone currently making 400hp should sell what they have and get a 16G to have more power under the curve


I have no idea which way you're going take the IC thing, but its right in my profile. Its a 24x12x3 side-side flow bar/plate.

And let me ask you out of curiosity... on what octane gas did you make those numbers and how many gallons of alcohol/water/meth did you go through on that pull?

May I ask WHO TUNED YOUR CAR?!?????????????????????? My cams Idle near perfect because my car is tuned well.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

The FP Green would be my #1 50-trim choice. Most people seem to make more power and run faster times on that 50-trim as apposed to most other 50-trims. And FP has always been known to put out a good product. The price is the only salty part of the deal.

I was just on SBR's site and noticed the G50 for $699 and the PTE SCM-5031E for $799. I wonder what the difference is.....? I was under the assumption that SBR used Turbonetics CHRA's in their bolt-on turbo's just like PTE.

Yea I just noticed that 5031, I didn't see it the last time.

Do you really think the Green is worth the price? I have no problem paying if its going to perform, and 400hp+ capability might be nice to avoid this same situation at the end of next summer.

 

[JOEY A]

I would really like to have a Green

 

[NosLaser]

Then I believe all of that would make you the exception to the rule. Show my 15 other people that have accomplished the same thing with the same parts and I'll keep my 16G.

Notice, I never said it COULDN'T make 350hp, I said it wouldn't be an EFFICIENT 350hp. If you love 16G's then more power to you, but that doesn't mean because you broke 400hp on one, then everyone that wants 400hp should go out and buy a s16G or that everyone currently making 400hp should sell what they have and get a 16G to have more power under the curve


I have no idea which way you're going take the IC thing, but its right in my profile. Its a 24x12x3 side-side flow bar/plate.

And let me ask you out of curiosity... on what octane gas did you make those numbers and how many gallons of alcohol/water/meth did you go through on that pull?

I asked the intercooler question because I was waiting for you to say that you were going to run the stock intercooler in your quest for 'doing things the right way.'

As far as 'loving' a 16g, I would have much rather run a bigger turbo, but it's what I had to work with at the time, so I excelled with it. If I had a 50 trim, my goals would have been more towards the 550-600 wheel HP range; in other words DOUBLE what you want to make with an even bigger turbo.

As far as what gas I ran, it was on high octane leaded race gas, but if you are racing your car, then I think race gas is a good idea. Using your logic, you don't care about area under the curve which means that you only care how fast the car is while racing, not how fast it feels when you just lay into it at 3500 and feel that pull, yet you don't want to run race gas? Seriously, your logic on this stuff is really skewed. If you wanted a fast car, and you wanted it to run on pump gas, and be fun on the street, then this thread could have been over on the front page. That's easy, and you wouldn't have been flamed so bad. But you keep harping on this "I want 300 HP and I want it on a BIG turbo" bullshit, with NO regard to how a big turbo behaves on a small 2.0 liter 4 cylinder. You will HATE driving that car every day. You'll WISH you would have listened and gone with something more fun to drive everyday.

Regards,

 

[JOEY A]

I asked the intercooler question because I was waiting for you to say that you were going to run the stock intercooler in your quest for 'doing things the right way.'

As far as 'loving' a 16g, I would have much rather run a bigger turbo, but it's what I had to work with at the time, so I excelled with it. If I had a 50 trim, my goals would have been more towards the 550-600 wheel HP range; in other words DOUBLE what you want to make with an even bigger turbo.

As far as what gas I ran, it was on high octane leaded race gas, but if you are racing your car, then I think race gas is a good idea. Using your logic, you don't care about area under the curve which means that you only care how fast the car is while racing, not how fast it feels when you just lay into it at 3500 and feel that pull, yet you don't want to run race gas? Seriously, your logic on this stuff is really skewed. If you wanted a fast car, and you wanted it to run on pump gas, and be fun on the street, then this thread could have been over on the front page. That's easy, and you wouldn't have been flamed so bad. But you keep harping on this "I want 300 HP and I want it on a BIG turbo" bullshit, with NO regard to how a big turbo behaves on a small 2.0 liter 4 cylinder. You will HATE driving that car every day. You'll WISH you would have listened and gone with something more fun to drive everyday.

Regards,

Took the words out of my mouth

 

[MyBeatGSX]

What does freinds on a cell phone have to do about this thread?

You want the fattest power band, most people aviable at all times

I just said I plenty of people available at all times. I have lots of friends and cell phone to contact them with.


How on earth could you say I'm looking for a dyno queen? That would be one, sad, power, underpowered dyno queen.

And I'm well aware that I can go 12's with only 300hp... who cares. I'm sure I could easily go 12's with whatever I'm making now because I just smoked my friends hatch that when 12.3... again... who cares. I set a power goal for the car, not a 1/4 mile goal. And now I've upped it for next year, and I'm sure at the end of next summer I'll up it another 50hp (400), and so the cycle goes on and on and on. I'm trying to save wasted time, effort, and money and just buy a turbo big enough to take me to the end of the cars streetable limits. Whether I use only 50% of it now I really could give 2 shits.



NosLaser: PLEASE stop talking like you're car is the norm. If you put out 400+ with a small 16G that thing is either possessed or on the bottle. That is NOT a standard for a 16G, it just isn't going to happen for the majority of other people. And I certainly hope you car had a flat torque curve with a turbo that small. Now just think, if it was bigger, you would have MORE torque up and made way MORE, at the expense of ~500-700rpm worth of spool.

 

[NosLaser]

I don't know why he doesn't just give us a performance goal. Something simple like "I want to have a car that will run low 12's on pump gas in the same state of tune that it runs on the street...recommend a turbo."

That would have been easy as any decent off the damn shelf 50 trim will do that all day long, provided the other supporting mods are there. But the way he worded his question seems like he doesn't want a fast car, he just wants to be able to tell people that he has a big turbo.

Regards,

 

[NosLaser]

NosLaser: PLEASE stop talking like you're car is the norm. If you put out 400+ with a small 16G that thing is either possessed or on the bottle. That is NOT a standard for a 16G, it just isn't going to happen for the majority of other people. And I certainly hope you car had a flat torque curve with a turbo that small. Now just think, if it was bigger, you would have MORE torque up and made way MORE, at the expense of ~500-700rpm worth of spool.

What is this 'bottle' of which you speak?

Regards,

 

[JOEY A]

I just said I plenty of people available at all times. I have lots of friends and cell phone to contact them with.


How on earth could you say I'm looking for a dyno queen? That would be one, sad, power, underpowered dyno queen.

And I'm well aware that I can go 12's with only 300hp... who cares. I'm sure I could easily go 12's with whatever I'm making now because I just smoked my friends hatch that when 12.3... again... who cares. I set a power goal for the car, not a 1/4 mile goal. And now I've upped it for next year, and I'm sure at the end of next summer I'll up it another 50hp (400), and so the cycle goes on and on and on. I'm trying to save wasted time, effort, and money and just buy a turbo big enough to take me to the end of the cars streetable limits. Whether I use only 50% of it now I really could give 2 shits.



NosLaser: PLEASE stop talking like you're car is the norm. If you put out 400+ with a small 16G that thing is either possessed or on the bottle. That is NOT a standard for a 16G, it just isn't going to happen for the majority of other people. And I certainly hope you car had a flat torque curve with a turbo that small. Now just think, if it was bigger, you would have MORE torque up and made way MORE, at the expense of ~500-700rpm worth
of spool.

To many people base there cars with power Goal


How about this, I would like to make 350WHP this year on pump gas and still have room to grow later on in the future. What are your opinions and what do you think is best for my goals because I know my EVOIII isnt going to cut it in the long run




Why dont you just say, Your friends Hatch MIGHT BEAT YOU so you want a better setup you can Smoke his ass?

 

[fourreGsixty3]

Yeah Tyler give VR a call, they could probably help you out.
Well this is turning into a very nice thread. Its starting to get to the point, and be somewhat civil Of course it was better then watching TV to read this thread

Dustin

 

[MyBeatGSX]

I asked the intercooler question because I was waiting for you to say that you were going to run the stock intercooler in your quest for 'doing things the right way.'

As far as 'loving' a 16g, I would have much rather run a bigger turbo, but it's what I had to work with at the time, so I excelled with it. If I had a 50 trim, my goals would have been more towards the 550-600 wheel HP range; in other words DOUBLE what you want to make with an even bigger turbo.

As far as what gas I ran, it was on high octane leaded race gas, but if you are racing your car, then I think race gas is a good idea. Using your logic, you don't care about area under the curve which means that you only care how fast the car is while racing, not how fast it feels when you just lay into it at 3500 and feel that pull, yet you don't want to run race gas? Seriously, your logic on this stuff is really skewed. If you wanted a fast car, and you wanted it to run on pump gas, and be fun on the street, then this thread could have been over on the front page. That's easy, and you wouldn't have been flamed so bad. But you keep harping on this "I want 300 HP and I want it on a BIG turbo" bullshit, with NO regard to how a big turbo behaves on a small 2.0 liter 4 cylinder. You will HATE driving that car every day. You'll WISH you would have listened and gone with something more fun to drive everyday.

Regards,

As far as the race/street/pump/etc. Its just my driving style. I drive either WOT or completely off boost. I don't blast around town at part boost and I don't dig it out of the dirt when making a pull. It needs to run on pump gas because I need to able to put it to the floor and get the power whenever I want it, not just at the track when it has race gas in it. I want a turbo that will do 300 EASILY, I want 350, that was mentioned too, you must have missed it.

If that's all you had and you made it work, good for you. I'm at a place where I can upgrade, the cost is not an issue, so its what I'm going to do.

I asked a simple question and set simple parameters for responders to work within. Why do I have to justify my driving style and powerband preferances to you in order to get an answer? I'm not a child, you don't need to make sure I know what I'm asking before you answer me. I'm intentionally extremely specific in every topic I make in order to avoid this exact off topic bullshit that is just waiting to happen. Its interesting because I see this happen in a lot of topics on this board. Don't try to act like you know what I want better than I do. I asked for a turbo that will be in the middle of its range at 350hp on pump gas, just answer the question, don't tell me that I can make 350hp and lots more torque at the very tip top of another turbo's range, that isn't what I asked you and better yet, its specifically what I said I didn't want. That right there is the bullshit and retardedness of this topic. And yet everyone wants to play it off like I'm the closed minded asshole. Don't tell me what I want, just answer my technical question with facts and not your personal preferences.


And in order to further justify my choice...

I think you missed something back there so I'll repeat it. I've driven Hondas all my life. Don't tell me I'll hate driving the car. For a year I drove a 1.6L engine with a 62trim (t04e) that didn't even see positive manifold pressure until VTEC hit at 5,000rpm. I liked it. I drove around quietly, peacefully, and with good gas mileage. It was like driving a f@ckin Camry. When I wanted boost it was just a downshift away.

The moral of the story. Don't tell me what I'll like or what I'll prefer. Just answer my incredibly simple questions.

 

[JOEY A]

As far as the race/street/pump/etc. Its just my driving style. I drive either WOT or completely off boost. I don't blast around town at part boost and I don't dig it out of the dirt when making a pull. It needs to run on pump gas because I need to able to put it to the floor and get the power whenever I want it, not just at the track when it has race gas in it. I want a turbo that will do 300 EASILY, I want 350, that was mentioned too, you must have missed it.

If that's all you had and you made it work, good for you. I'm at a place where I can upgrade, the cost is not an issue, so its what I'm going to do.

I asked a simple question and set simple parameters for responders to work within. Why do I have to justify my driving style and powerband preferances to you in order to get an answer? I'm not a child, you don't need to make sure I know what I'm asking before you answer me. I'm intentionally extremely specific in every topic I make in order to avoid this exact off topic bullshit that is just waiting to happen. Its interesting because I see this happen in a lot of topics on this board. Don't try to act like you know what I want better than I do. I asked for a turbo that will be in the middle of its range at 350hp on pump gas, just answer the question, don't tell me that I can make 350hp and lots more torque at the very tip top of another turbo's range, that isn't what I asked you and better yet, its specifically what I said I didn't want. That right there is the bullshit and retardedness of this topic. And yet everyone wants to play it off like I'm the closed minded asshole. Don't tell me what I want, just answer my technical question with facts and not your personal preferences.


And in order to further justify my choice...

I think you missed something back there so I'll repeat it. I driven Hondas all my life. Don't tell me I'll hate driving the car. For a year I drove a 1.6L engine with a 62trim (t04e) that didn't even seen positive manifold pressure until VTEC hit at 5,000rpm. I liked it. I drove around quietly, peacefully, and with good gas mile. It was like driving a f@ckin Camry. When I wanted boost it was just a downshift away.

The moral of the story. Don't tell me what I'll like or what I'll prefer. Just answer my incredibly simple questions.

THANK FOR TELLING US HOW YOUR DIRVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Now its going to be a bit easyer giving you advice for a turbo setup, you should have told us that a long time ago Jeezzzzz



O and again WHO TUNED YOUR CAR?

 

[99gst_racer]

Yea I just noticed that 5031, I didn't see it the last time.

Do you really think the Green is worth the price? I have no problem paying if its going to perform, and 400hp+ capability might be nice to avoid this same situation at the end of next summer.

If my budget would more easily allow, I would probably be driving on a Green. If you can afford it, yes, it is worth the price tag. Not only is it a top notch performer, it's been known to be extremely reliable.

I would consider the Green to be overkill for 300-350 HP. The 50-trim really doesn't even wake up until 20 psi, and feels great at around 28-30 psi. But if you feel your goals will eventually be 400+, then the Green would be a great choice. You can run low boost now, and crank it up down the road when you're ready.

As far as what gas I ran, it was on high octane leaded race gas, but if you are racing your car, then I think race gas is a good idea. Using your logic, you don't care about area under the curve which means that you only care how fast the car is while racing, not how fast it feels when you just lay into it at 3500 and feel that pull, yet you don't want to run race gas? Seriously, your logic on this stuff is really skewed. If you wanted a fast car, and you wanted it to run on pump gas, and be fun on the street, then this thread could have been over on the front page. That's easy, and you wouldn't have been flamed so bad. But you keep harping on this "I want 300 HP and I want it on a BIG turbo" bullshit, with NO regard to how a big turbo behaves on a small 2.0 liter 4 cylinder. You will HATE driving that car every day. You'll WISH you would have listened and gone with something more fun to drive everyday.

Regards,

I agree about the race gas. That's all my car sees now.

Aslan, would you mind posting a dyno sheet of your 16G? I just recently pulled similar numbers from my 50-trim on my stock 7-bolt and I would love to compare power curves to a 16G. (PM me if you don't want to post it.)

I've driven my car on the B16G as well as two different 50-trims. The B16G was fun because it was putting out less power @ 23 psi and being FWD, I had less traction issues with less power. But the overall power of the 50-trim makes it more fun. Being that I had stock cams, intake manifold, head, etc..., I could really feel the power falling off with B16G. Whereas the 50-trim would hold much better all the way to redline. By all means, I definitely do not "hate" driving on the 50-trim. My current 50-trim set-up has been the best performing as of yet and I plan on driving on it for a while before I go larger. The 16G was a fun little street turbo and very capable for it's size, but the vast majority of DSMers are putting down around 290-320 HP with the 16G and I personally wanted more than that.