TuRbo help, fpbig28 vs. 16g

[larryd]

the othe thing is people serioulsy underate power.. 280whp doesnt sound like alot, but believe me thats a hell of alot of power to put down especially on FWD

 

[Dylan]

so with all support mods and stuff, what hp am i looking at for a 20g?

 

[larryd]

im not positive because im not familiar with 20g but Id say upwards of 400whp.. I know the Green which is supposedly larger then a 20g is 450whp..

 

[rayden]

larryd thx for bringing me back to earth, but i have a problem with some of what u said. first of all there was a segment in one of the sport compact magazines, i dont remeber which one. but they took a stock gst and got 240 whp just with a boost controler, off road pipe and afc. i dont beleive that you can only get 280 whp on a big 28 and they got that on a stock t-25. those mods were just 1000 dollars. i have already got a boost controler. so all i need is a off road pipe. 70 bucks and 500 for a afc and i think i would be well over 280 whp. the got i think, but dont quote me on this, 40 whp just on the off road pipe. so with that by what u are saying i would be at the 320 mark. hell i will just put a 75 shot on and will be at the 360 mark. not hard to get to 400 whp after that.

 

[rayden]

remeber this is just my opinion i could be wrong.

 

[rayden]

hey larryd, i am thinking of getting the act 2100 clutch i see u have it. what do u think of it.

 

[larryd]

ok, you are mistaking wheel hp and flywheel hp.. big difference.. there is no way in hell they got 240whp out of a boost controller, test pipe and AFC.. infact I remember that issue, I have it laying around here somewhere.. figure the 240 you quoted minus 15% for FWD drivetrain and your looking at 204whp which sounds about right with those few mods..

I made 222whp out of the T25 with all my mods before the FMIC and that was supposedly really good for the T25..

General Rule of Thumb:
wheel hp = fly wheel hp -15% on a FWD
wheel hp = fly wheel hp -20% on a AWD

btw, I just put in my 2100, car isnt even running yet.. Ill tell you when I find out

 

[rayden]

your right larry d. it was 220 whp. i stand corrected. i remember now it was a 40 whp gain. but still that is on stock turbo. you are damn near 300whp without tuning. with tunning u will be in the 12's. it is very posible on slicks for a fwd to get in the 11's or 12's on some good tuning on a big 16 or a big 28. that is all im saying. it seems to me like u dont have alot of confidence in dsm's. i could be wrong though. just some of the things u say sound like that. if u can get ur car to the 12 second mark on the street u will be hard to beat by any big block motor. they will have a way worse traction problem and consistency problem then we will ever have. high torque means high tire spin. sometimes more hp isnt better.

 

[rayden]

also. i have some bottom end work done. one that will change my performance is the 20 percent gain from the balance shafts being removed. which equals a 36 whp gain. that will increase what i get out of the turbo also. plus the coated pistons will also alow me to go with nitrous alot safer than without. i will propably just go with a 50 whp gain. this is a daily driver and i dont want any problems. my next project will be to build a full blown drag car. It will be a 1g awd. i can get one without a motor or a blown motor for about a grand. then i will build a bad ass block and go from there. My car now is just a sleeper car. imagine pulling up beside a new corvette in a 4 banger with the top down and some 18 inch wheels and smokin it. now thats the **** im talking about. it doesnt mean anything at the track. that is just buisness. on the street it is pleasure!!!!!

 

[Dylan]

yeah i remeber that issue of import tuner, i read it all the time .

but anyway the off road pipe will give you in between 20 and 30 whp,, i remeber that. god all this is gettting so expensive! see i also want to make the outside tight too, with bodykit, arospeed wing, ext. so ive got that to deal with too. oh well looks like ill have to hang on to the tiny t-25 for a while, oh well, its not that bad (psshh).

any of you guys try the turbo x's duel stage boost controller, it looks really tight, i mean a 75 hp switch! now thats just cool, put it next to the 60hp n20 switch, now theres fun!

 

[Awdboost]

dudes I just whan you to know that A T28 will not flow nearly as much as a big 16G. That like saying a 20G flow as much as a Green or a T3/T4. Sorry to attack you but I know the website give good number on the green but read all the fine print, like 117 or so Octane cams and so forth. I like the green but I think if you want HP a bigger turbo is the way to go.. I don't want to have a go though a battle with you guys but remember that a Big 16G flows 550 cfm and I can't find any numbers for the T-28 but I RRE said it good for 320 HP I'm not say which one is better but just try to explain which one is bigger, and they close but not there is no match when you put a Big 16 clip 10 degrees against a T28 with the same mods. just my two cents.

 

[Dylan]

ok ok wait, now ive been looking at the 20g turbo for a while? but now the green has come into my attension. how much extra cash is it and what more does it take to install, including support mods than the 20g..

 

[Faded]

If you check my profile you will see a list of the mods that I'm running with my Green. The mods will be about the same as a properly modded 20G.

 

[SPEEDY]

Originally posted by Awdboost
dudes I just whan you to know that A T28 will not flow nearly as much as a big 16G. That like saying a 20G flow as much as a Green or a T3/T4. Sorry to attack you but I know the website give good number on the green but read all the fine print, like 117 or so Octane cams and so forth. I like the green but I think if you want HP a bigger turbo is the way to go.. I don't want to have a go though a battle with you guys but remember that a Big 16G flows 550 cfm and I can't find any numbers for the T-28 but I RRE said it good for 320 HP I'm not say which one is better but just try to explain which one is bigger, and they close but not there is no match when you put a Big 16 clip 10 degrees against a T28 with the same mods. just my two cents.

The T-28 RRE is referring to on there web site is the old T-28. Forced Performance is the only company that sells the new BIG28. There is a difference between the two turbos. You can have the BIG28 "ported" also, I have "mine" ported. The old T-28 flows 510cfm's. The small 16g flows 505cfm's. Big 16G flows 550 cfm's, and no one knows what the BIG28 flows, except for Forced Performance, and they wont release a cfm rating on it. They just say that the BIG28 is rated at 350 to 400 crank hp with supporting mods. Later!!

 

[Dylan]

damit i duno what to do . imm thinking either just big28 or 20g, which, ill just toss a quarter, heads 20g, tails big28

my thought is the big28 will bolt right on right? no install kit.

do you guys think in the end the 20g will do THAT much better than big28?

 

[rayden]

nice chance getting the big28 . they are on back order till july

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

Originally posted by Dylan
damit i duno what to do . imm thinking either just big28 or 20g, which, ill just toss a quarter, heads 20g, tails big28

my thought is the big28 will bolt right on right? no install kit.

do you guys think in the end the 20g will do THAT much better than big28?

Yes a big28 will bolt right on and yes a 20G will do THAT much better properly tuned. My mutt lv2 (20g sized) flows like 670cfm at 1bar big28 I would guess is 550-580.

Later,

 

[SPEEDY]

Originally posted by Dylan
damit i duno what to do . imm thinking either just big28 or 20g, which, ill just toss a quarter, heads 20g, tails big28

my thought is the big28 will bolt right on right? no install kit.

do you guys think in the end the 20g will do THAT much better than big28?

Yes the BIG28 bolts right on. A 20g will have more topend, and make more power over all, period, with a little more lag of course. But to really get good use out of a 20g you really should upgrade rods and do some other internal engine upgrades to make 500hp or more. The BIG28 is a great street turbo, but only supports 350 to 400 crank hp worth of air flow. It has quick spool up, and enough topend to usually get the job done on the streets. If your more of a dragstrip guy then a 20g would be nice, or in my opinion a fp green would be even better. I plan on spraying a 55 shot on down the road on my BIG28

 

[Violater101]

I seriously doubt you will gain 30whp with a test pipe...perhaps 15. As for a 36whp gain by removing balance shafts? no clue on that one, but sounds a tad bit much. 12's will be hard to due on a FWD, but it can be done and has been done. To get into the 11's, you will need a bigger turbo than the big28. AWD is another story :> Good luck on whatever you decide. I will say that you will have power making ability of a 12 sec car on the street from a roll with the right mod's :>

 

[99GST]

Originally posted by Violater101
I seriously doubt you will gain 30whp with a test pipe...perhaps 15. As for a 36whp gain by removing balance shafts? no clue on that one, but sounds a tad bit much. 12's will be hard to due on a FWD, but it can be done and has been done. To get into the 11's, you will need a bigger turbo than the big28. AWD is another story :> Good luck on whatever you decide. I will say that you will have power making ability of a 12 sec car on the street from a roll with the right mod's :>

12s are very easy to do on a front wheel drive car.
Just this past saturday, my friend ran a 7.3 in th1 1/8 on a FWD 96 Integra GSR with a Drag III turbo kit, stock bottom end, with slicks.

Do the math, but i believe 7.3 in the 1/8 is around low 12's in the 1/4. Give him another month, and he will be in the 6's in the 1/8. I guarantee it.

Now if the integras can do it...i know the dsm's can.

GO FWD!!!

 

[rayden]

slicks do wonders. thats what i will run on the track

 

[larryd]

god you guys are really off on this.. just becuase your friend does it in his turbo GSR with slicks doesnt mean you will.. I have a friend with a Civic hatch with a turbo ITR motor in it and on slicks he runs 12.20s.. does that mean I will run 12s just cuz I have slicks.. NO.. a DSM and an Integra are 2 completely different cars with completely different power bands.. Im not knocking a DSM at all, infact that reason I bought the car is becuase of its ease to mod but you guys who say a FWD DSM will be easy to get into the 12s need to actually go out and run at the track in yer FWD DSMs and then come back and talk.. I for one speak from experience and can tell you a Big 28 and FWD will NOT get you into the 12s without ALOT of other work and some incredible driving unless your planning on running slicks and a quaiffe LSD..

if you want 12s or better with FWD plan to spend ALOT of $$$ and get a bigger turbo.. a 20g or as they said a Green would be even better which is what Im looking at now. just a point of reference for you.. Loren ran a 13.2 with his GST with same mods he ran a 11.8 in his GSX with the Big 28.. FWD and Track SUCKS big time, its hard as hell and im not going to make it sound any easier then it is.. Its damned near impossible to hit 12s without breaking stuff with slicks or running a monsterous size turbo like a 20g or Green.

BTW, enlight of this entire post I decided to go back and dig up that Import Tuner issue.. it states

"In the first round we were able to net 188.1 hp utilizing an Injen air intake, Thermal Research & Development exhaust system and a Buschur Racing Down Pipe."

That means to get the 221hp and 245ft/lb of torque the car is rated at after this tuning session the car has Intake, full exhaust with no cat, boost controller and an AFC.. which is close to what i had when I put down 222hp and 254ft/lb of torque on my GST so I believe I know where Im coming from here..

DSMs are easily moddable yes, but dont get cocky and think your FWD GST will be the SH*T until you can back it up.. Im in the process of doing that now myself..

 

[fast_talon]

If you chose to go with a 20G size turbo or larger.. I would seriously consider a Mutt ETA-32. Especially if you dont want to go external wastegate. 20G's are a good turbo, but with a Garret you can change the wheel size at any time. I would stay with a 50 trim unless you can handle the increased lag of the 60 trim. Also, get the 660 injectors instead of the 550's. This will allow you to expand later on.

Like these guys have said, It is best to do all of the other mods first and upgrade the turbo last. I have all the supporting mods done (including FMIC) and I am just installing the turbo this weekend. I know it sucks to wait and do the turbo last, but you will get alot more out of it.

 

[99GST]

Originally posted by larryd
god you guys are really off on this.. just becuase your friend does it in his turbo GSR with slicks doesnt mean you will.. I have a friend with a Civic hatch with a turbo ITR motor in it and on slicks he runs 12.20s.. does that mean I will run 12s just cuz I have slicks.. NO.. a DSM and an Integra are 2 completely different cars with completely different power bands.. Im not knocking a DSM at all, infact that reason I bought the car is becuase of its ease to mod but you guys who say a FWD DSM will be easy to get into the 12s need to actually go out and run at the track in yer FWD DSMs and then come back and talk.. I for one speak from experience and can tell you a Big 28 and FWD will NOT get you into the 12s without ALOT of other work and some incredible driving unless your planning on running slicks and a quaiffe LSD..

if you want 12s or better with FWD plan to spend ALOT of $$$ and get a bigger turbo.. a 20g or as they said a Green would be even better which is what Im looking at now. just a point of reference for you.. Loren ran a 13.2 with his GST with same mods he ran a 11.8 in his GSX with the Big 28.. FWD and Track SUCKS big time, its hard as hell and im not going to make it sound any easier then it is.. Its damned near impossible to hit 12s without breaking stuff with slicks or running a monsterous size turbo like a 20g or Green.

BTW, enlight of this entire post I decided to go back and dig up that Import Tuner issue.. it states

"In the first round we were able to net 188.1 hp utilizing an Injen air intake, Thermal Research & Development exhaust system and a Buschur Racing Down Pipe."

That means to get the 221hp and 245ft/lb of torque the car is rated at after this tuning session the car has Intake, full exhaust with no cat, boost controller and an AFC.. which is close to what i had when I put down 222hp and 254ft/lb of torque on my GST so I believe I know where Im coming from here..

DSMs are easily moddable yes, but dont get cocky and think your FWD GST will be the SH*T until you can back it up.. Im in the process of doing that now myself..

No, I believe you are really off here bud. The point of my email is that 12's on slicks is easily capable. Have you ever ran on slicks? Do you know how to launch on slicks? I have been to the track, and I go two times per week. I personally, have hit 13.7 on my shitty T25, without an afc or fmic. Of course I was on slicks, and I know how to launch with them. So, i will guarantee you i will be in the 12's with a Big 16G, once i put it on.

Just because you may be having a hard time hitting the 12's doesnt mean that it is impossible to do. The HP is there and the Torque is there for 12's. Get some slicks and race gas, then learn how to launch with them. You can get into the 12's. It not that hard.

Sorry friend, but just because you are having trouble, doesnt mean it is not easily doable. Come on down to Kentucky, and us red-necks will show you how to get into the 12's

Later.
Nathan

 

[NitRous242]

ok thanks for all your turbo suggestions ( i changed my name, i was dylan) , now, where are some good websites that will have the green, the mutt, and the garret? could you guys post some links?

haha i tried lookign up the green turbo, did you know there is a huge snail called the green turbo!?!?!? lives in indo-pacific...

anyway so with the green, you said i wont need an external wastegate right? the internal will hold well? alright im looking it up now.. how much did you guys pay for your turbo?