Turbo Boost Creep Creeping T25 14B 16G [Merged]

[kylush]

What do you mean recirced or open would help? The stock one is recirced...... internally gated. Do you mean a recirced external gate? And I know i won't hit 350 with the stock turbo which is why I started this thread. To get suggestions on turbos that can hit my 350whp goal and not have these boost creep issues.

 

[1gDSM4g63]

What do you mean recirced or open would help? The stock one is recirced...... internally gated. Do you mean a recirced external gate? And I know i won't hit 350 with the stock turbo which is why I started this thread. To get suggestions on turbos that can hit my 350whp goal and not have these boost creep issues.

A recirculated or open vented o2 housing can work on both internal or external wastegates. A 16g will be able to get you 350hp with the right upgrades supporting it.

 

[kylush]

isn't the stock O2 housing basically a recirculated O2 housing?

 

[juanpac0]

Boost creep isn't really your turbo's fault, it's everything post-turbo that will affect it. Porting your o2 housing is the first step to fighting boost creep, because any turbo you go with will flow more air than the 14b, and more air flow = more creep due to the restriction at the o2 housing.

 

[reardrv]

Pick up a tubular O2 housing and port the shit out of the wastegate in your turbo, even though you'll be upgrading latter you can always sell a ported turbo for more than a unported one.

 

[JayRolla]

What is all the bad info for. Man, porting the o2 housing, manifold or anythign else is not going to stop the creep. The creep has to due with the turbo pretty much only. The mitsu housings dont allow enough air to make it to the wastegate and just passes by and thats the reason for creep.

You have to properly port around the wastegate hole so the air has an easier path to the wastegate flapper and doesnt just bypass it. I dont know what these other guys are talking about but I have lots of experience with stopping creep. The o2 housing will do nothing.

 

[EvansF]

Heu? I was creeping at 21 PSI with on my 14b when i installed my 3inch cat-back. I did a really good ported job and im able to hold the stock PSI now....

You need a good porting job ir you want to stay on a 14b or 16g

 

[EvansF]

Yeah like you said, you need to do a good porting job around the wastegate flapper! It is essential.

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

and then a 3 inch turboback exhaust.

There is your problem... Your exhaust flows better than the wastegate passage. Therefore, the exhaust gasses would rather go through the turbo and spin it up than bypassing it and going through the wastegate. If you don't want to port out the turbine housing another cheap option is to put a silencer in the exhaust. It will limit the airflow that goes through the turbo and should regulate your boost a bit better. Most of the time when you buy an exhaust system a silencer comes with it. May not be the case with your exhaust. Then, when your exhaust becomes a restriction with the silencer in it (running higher boost) you can remove it.

I've got the opposite problem. I'm trying to get my turbo to hold higher boost without falling off and without going to an external gate.

 

[kylush]

Thanks guys, thats kinda what I was looking for I guess. Good info makes alot of sense. I'm kinda wondering what aftermarket upgrades capable of supporting 350hp don't require porting of the wastegate hole i guess. Or maybe I should just get an external gate.

 

[JusMX141]

Don't blame the turbo....the reason you're battling creep is that fancy 3" turbo-back exhaust system you have. You're trying to run too low of a boost level with an exhaust system that is too unrestricted.

Add some restriction to your exhaust or drop down to a 2.5" system and the problem will fix itself.

 

[JWoodley]

I don't see a 14B taking you to the 350hp mark, but if you decide to upgrade to a 16G you can opt for the BEP housing with the 38mm internal gate. Several users on this forum have noted it "curing" their creep issues.

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

Thanks guys, thats kinda what I was looking for I guess. Good info makes alot of sense. I'm kinda wondering what aftermarket upgrades capable of supporting 350hp don't require porting of the wastegate hole i guess. Or maybe I should just get an external gate.

Get an EMS of some sort (DSMlink, EPROM burner/TunerPRO)
Fuel Pump
Larger Injectors
FMIC
ARP head studs
Water/Meth injection
Dodge Garage Mod your 1g BOV


Then you won't have to worry about creep. Just let it do it.

 

[kylush]

Yeah all that stuff is on my to do list hahah

What is the dodge garage mod?

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

DDG- Talon BOV mod for HIGH BOOST

 

[oldman420]

DDG- Talon BOV mod for HIGH BOOST

 

[EvansF]

I think sincerely you can reach 350 hp with a 14b. I am at 260 whp with my 14b and i still dont have all mods to optimise my 14b.

But should be easier with a 16g.

 

[JusMX141]

I think sincerely you can reach 350 hp with a 14b. I am at 260 whp with my 14b and i still dont have all mods to optimise my 14b.

It gets extremely difficult to use airflow that doesn't exist to get to 350hp using a 14B. It seems as though the horsepower knob gets harder and harder to turn once you pass the 300 mark.

 

[assedfast]

dont even waste ## time with a 16g for a few more bucks get a 6152 and supporting mods. youll get tired of a 16g 2 quick

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

dont even waste ## time with a 16g for a few more bucks get a 6152 and supporting mods. youll get tired of a 16g 2 quick

Not everyone likes to jump into a large turbo right away. A 16g is a very potent turbo for it's size. The records keep on being broken as to how much power it will support. Plus, until you officially max out a turbo you're not ready to upgrade anyway.

 

[JusMX141]

dont even waste ## time with a 16g for a few more bucks get a 6152 and supporting mods. youll get tired of a 16g 2 quick

Quite a bolt statement with no backup.

Explain, in detail, why he would want to pass on a turbo with Mitsubishi reliability that would be a direct bolt-on for his car in order to get a 6152E, which is one of the most laggy and unrewarding turbos available in a DSM bolt-on housing.


PTE has essentially taken a GT35R in journal-bearing form and shoved it into a DSM bolt-on housing, naming it the SCM6152E. There are plenty of reasons why this turbo should never be built:

- The T3 center housings are already fragile enough as it is without two giant wheels loading the T3 journal bearings. If you're bold enough run this turbo at a boost level worthy of the compressor map, it probably wouldn't last more than 1000 miles.

- Even the 360* thrust plate that PTE uses isn't durable enough to support high boost with a 6152E.

- They've taken a Stage 5 Garrett turbine and shoved it into one of the poorest-flowing DSM bolt-on turbine housings built. The housing alone would never allow the compressor wheel to get anywhere near it's flow potential. Forced Performance won't even use a cast DSM bolt-on housing on their FP30-series turbos because of poor flow concerns.....PTE's using one on their GT35 equivalent. That should tell you something about PTE's research and development on DSM's.

- So you buy a 6152E and decide to run it at 15psi. At that boost level, you're nowhere near the compressor's efficiency range. You'd be lucky to be moving the same amount of air that a 16G would at just a few psi more....and the 16G would spool 30-40% quicker.

- A 16G spools at 3200-3600 rpms depending on your setup. A 6152E is closer to 4800 rpms on a stockish engine. With redline at 7200, I'd sure hope a 1500 rpm loss of boost would be worth it.


There are the main reasons the 16G is the #1 upgrade choice for a street-driven DSM....let's hear your reasons backing up your statement.

 

[underradar92]

Boost creep, really? That's a new one...

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...oler/186525-how-cure-boost-creep-porting.html

 

[DSM-Franek]

Just wondering if you figured this out yet?

I am having a creep issue also so I ran a line straight to the wastegate (tial 38mm) to rule out my MBC and it will open at 9psi and hold until about 5000-5500 rpm then creep to 20-21psi.

Does this sound like a wastegate that needs to be rebuilt?

Any suggestions?

Thanks alot

 

[zdravko_k2002]

I just figured it out today, and everyone will probably laugh at me ### its really really stupid, but it just so happens that my wastegate was installed on backwards. By that I mean where my exhaust manifold flange is I have bolted that up to the side where its supposed to be dumping from and the side that the spring is on to be pushed is just chillen right after my dump tube. It seemed right to me because it sits straight up when you install it like that, but I guess it is supposed to be in the laying down position so you cannot read the top of the wastegate when you open up the hood. The gases coming out from the manifold would than be able to push the right side of the wastegate and the spring would hold the boost, I guess it all makes sense but I just dont even know why I installed it the wrong way the first time, but today I was looking at it and I just started laughing at how stupid it was, but I will switch it around tomorrow hopefully I have anough room between my manifold and fans and let you know what happened. To everyone else does this sound like this was my issude the whole time although it seems pretty logical? Thanks

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

You have no idea how much i wanted to say that, because, well you don't encounter that very often. This is what was going through my head when i wrote my first post, "i bet he put his wastegate on backwards, but no, no, there couldn't be anyone dumb enough to realize the valve points to the high pressure side. I guess he was just like everyone else and puts the MBC on backwards."

No lie. But, eh, it happens. Glad everything worked out. Pass auf naechste ziet.

James