track wheels...17x9 +45..GTFO

[DSMpwr25]

I just ordered a set of MB Weapons 17x9 +27 in Bronze. I planned on streching a set of 225/45/17 on them for the street, Then Imma try a set of 245/45/17s I got laying around I will post pics up of how it turns out

 

[fulanititoo8198]

I just ordered a set of MB Weapons 17x9 +27 in Bronze. I planned on streching a set of 225/45/17 on them for the street, Then Imma try a set of 245/45/17s I got laying around I will post pics up of how it turns out

Those are going to concave nicely I had the same ones in 17x8 42mm looked nice and concaved. W/ that offset and width they should look sxy.

 

[mavisky]

I just ordered a set of MB Weapons 17x9 +27 in Bronze. I planned on streching a set of 225/45/17 on them for the street, Then Imma try a set of 245/45/17s I got laying around I will post pics up of how it turns out

+27? hope you've got some sort of plan to run 8 degrees of camber or fender flares.

Those will only sit 3mm inboard of what mine do, and as you can see, mine stick out more than 3mm.

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[goodbye]

Crap, I forgot about this thread. I got the 17x9 MB Weapons in bronze as well, guess that wasn't much of a secret. The backs tuck perfectly with no clearance issues, the fronts stick out a bit under an inch, not as much as Mavisky's. I've maxed out my negative camber up front so I need to get some plates and they'll come in a bit. I'll post up pics tomorrow.

 

[tsidrift1]

I know im bringing this back from the dead, but, is there anybody else running 17x9's on their 1gs now? I am really looking into the 5zigen fno1rc, either 17x9 w/43 offset or the 17x9 w/35mm offset. I know the 43's will sit just about right, but Im worried about clearing the 3kgt brakes up front. I am pretty sure the 35 offset clear, cause they clear the evo's brembos.

Anthony

 

[unlmtdndeavor]

I know im bringing this back from the dead, but, is there anybody else running 17x9's on their 1gs now? I am really looking into the 5zigen fno1rc, either 17x9 w/43 offset or the 17x9 w/35mm offset. I know the 43's will sit just about right, but Im worried about clearing the 3kgt brakes up front. I am pretty sure the 35 offset clear, cause they clear the evo's brembos.

Anthony

I would run the 17x9 +43 in the front and the 17x9 +35 in the rear if you want a more flush setup. The fronts should have no problem clearing 3kgt brakes up front, as they fit with evo8 wheels which are 17x8 +38 if i remember correctly.

 

[tsidrift1]

I would run the 17x9 +43 in the front and the 17x9 +35 in the rear if you want a more flush setup. The fronts should have no problem clearing 3kgt brakes up front, as they fit with evo8 wheels which are 17x8 +38 if i remember correctly.

Yea, thats what I was thinking. My 18x8's in the rear have like a good 1.5" before they would be flush. I have 10mm spacers up front to clear the calipers. I was definitely aiming more towards the 35mm, I just didnt want them to be out too much on the front. I just needed clarity that I would be able to get the fronts on over the 3kgt brakes with out spacers.

P.S. Your gsx is ####ing badass with those wheels on it. I was going to go for those, but I dont think they would go right with the pearl white on my car. Im looking into the bronze fno1rc's.

Anthony

 

[mavisky]

With some aggressive fender rolling and serious spring rates and a healthy dose of front camber you could probably do the +35mm all the way around. The pics of my car just above yours don't show it with the camber plates. With those installed I have tons of clearance up front with the flares and could have probably gotten by with a slightly smaller tire and some fender rolling even with my +24's. You'll be 11mm inboard of that so that should help quite a bit.

 

[tsidrift1]

I think im sold on the 5zigen wheels. I just need to figure out which color now. Oh, and sell my current wheels, I guess. I found a thread from a while ago. It has some pics at the bottom of some 1gs with some wide wheels. I am thinking that the very bottom one is wrong specs. It says they are a 17x9 with a 30mm offset. But they sit in further than my 18x8 with a 40mm offset.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/handling-tech/315721-17x9-rims-will-they-fit.html

Anthony

 

[bmoha2]

has tons of wider wheels for sale in the private EVO 1-9 and X for sale section. I know some members here have gone there to get their wide wheels. Beware most of the wheels for sale are Advan, Works, Volks etc=lot's of money. Big brand names and very pricey but there are definitively some deals to be had. I have also seen a lot of stock EVO 9MR wheels and EVO X wheels for sale. These wheels are 18X8.5 and can fit a pretty damn wide tire. Those BBS EVO 9MR and X stock wheels weigh 19 pounds and can be had for a song.

 

[tsirider13]

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Hey guys,

What wheels are in this car?
They seem pretty light!

 

[mavisky]

Those were part of the Team Dynamics group buy.

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

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"Scrub radius is the distance between where the Steering Axis Inclination (line through the strut) intersects the ground and the center of the tire. This distance must be exactly the same from side to side or the vehicle will pull strongly at all speeds. While included angle problems will affect the scrub radius, it is not the only thing that will affect it. Different wheels or tires from side to side will cause differences in scrub radius as well as a tire that is low on air. Positive scrub radius is when the tire contact patch is outside of the SAI pivot, while negative scrub radius is when the contact patch is inboard of the SAI pivot (front wheel drive vehicles usually have negative scrub radius).

If the brake on one front wheel is not working, with positive scrub radius, stepping on the brake will cause the steering wheel to try to rip out of your hand. Negative scrub radius will minimize that effect.

Scrub radius is designed at the factory and is not adjustable. If you have a vehicle that is pulling even though the alignment is correct, look for something that will affect scrub radius."


Phil brings up the point that moving the center line of the wheel over with that offset will change the scrub radius of the suspension and it will likely have negative affects on handling. That's why the Team Dynamics wheels were determined to have the perfect offset for our cars. Not just because they don't rub or because they allow fitment of big brake calipers, but because the offset positions the wheel close to where the factory designed it to be for the suspension geometry of our cars. Correct me if I'm wrong though, Phil

Maybe you road racers could correct me if I'm wrong... But how does the rim width mess with the Scrub Radius? No matter what width the wheel is, as long as you use the same offset the Scrub Radius does not change. Since the offset is calculated from the hub mounting surface to the centerline of the rim as long as this stays the same the width has no change on scrub radius. The radius will change if you use a larger wheel diameter and tire combo though.

Stock 205/55-16 is 24.9in in diameter.
A 17x9 with a 245/40-17 is 24.7in in diameter.

Tire size calculator
There are three important things to remember with relation# to offset

So, from what I've gathered... the stock Offset is +46mm. A +45mm offset 17x9 should work just fine as long as the tire chosen is within a close proximity to the stock diameter.

Those of you running +27mm offsets on your 17x9's are you running those due to the fact that the stock +46mm offset is not good or is it due to the fact that a lower offset is more optimum?

Am I correct on this? I really want to know.

 

[D_Eclipse9916]

17x9 +45 offset will definitely not work on a 2gb chassis. That is why people are quoting +35 offset numbers . I know for a fact any square tire on a +45 will not work on a 17x9 +45

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

17x9 +45 offset will definitely not work on a 2gb chassis. That is why people are quoting +35 offset numbers.

That's great and all... But I'm not interested in the 2gb chassis as this is not what this discussion has been about.

 

[D_Eclipse9916]

That's great and all... But I'm not interested in the 2gb chassis as this is not what this discussion has been about.

Duh fail, thought this was the other "17x9" thread

 

[Bryan 93]

To revive a very old post, can anyone confirm what ->PrOjEcTGS<- is saying? I am looking at some 17x9 +45 offset wheels and I don't understand the +27 offset being selected as optimum. If the stock offset was +46, changing to +27 would severely change the scrub radius, not sticking with something very close to +46.

Maybe you road racers could correct me if I'm wrong... But how does the rim width mess with the Scrub Radius? No matter what width the wheel is, as long as you use the same offset the Scrub Radius does not change. Since the offset is calculated from the hub mounting surface to the centerline of the rim as long as this stays the same the width has no change on scrub radius. The radius will change if you use a larger wheel diameter and tire combo though.

Stock 205/55-16 is 24.9in in diameter.
A 17x9 with a 245/40-17 is 24.7in in diameter.

Tire size calculator
There are three important things to remember with relation# to offset

So, from what I've gathered... the stock Offset is +46mm. A +45mm offset 17x9 should work just fine as long as the tire chosen is within a close proximity to the stock diameter.

Those of you running +27mm offsets on your 17x9's are you running those due to the fact that the stock +46mm offset is not good or is it due to the fact that a lower offset is more optimum?

Am I correct on this? I really want to know.

 

[Phil1320]

To revive a very old post, can anyone confirm what ->PrOjEcTGS<- is saying? I am looking at some 17x9 +45 offset wheels and I don't understand the +27 offset being selected as optimum. If the stock offset was +46, changing to +27 would severely change the scrub radius, not sticking with something very close to +46.

Incorrect as you will be adding 3" to the width of what your stock wheels were. Your factory offset no longer applies. You put a 17 x 9 on a 1G with a +45 offset and that will be a large mistake.

 

[Bryan 93]

That seems to be in direct conflict with what the Miata site says that he linked,

If you select an aftermarket wheel with the exact same offset, you will always have the exact same scrub radius. Suspension and handling properties will not change.

If the new wheel is wider than the stock wheel, you will loose clearance on both suspension and wheel well sides. There is obviously a limit to how much of a width change you can make.

If you are adding 3" to the width, and maintaining the same offset (not back spacing), you are maintaining the same hub mounting surface to centerline of the wheel, which gives you the same scrub radius.

I know I must be missing something obvious, but its a good discussion.

Incorrect as you will be adding 3" to the width of what your stock wheels were. Your factory offset no longer applies. You put a 17 x 9 on a 1G with a +45 offset and that will be a large mistake.

 

[Steve93Talon]

That seems to be in direct conflict with what the Miata site says that he linked,



If you are adding 3" to the width, and maintaining the same offset (not back spacing), you are maintaining the same hub mounting surface to centerline of the wheel, which gives you the same scrub radius.

I know I must be missing something obvious, but its a good discussion.

FWIW, I agree with you. From the diagram posted on page 1, the width of the wheel is irrelevant, the offset should be as close to stock as possible to maintain proper scrub radius. I'd imagine that changes in tire diameter and camber would have some effect as well, though I'd assume that given the same diameter tire, increasing negative camber would move the center line of the tire away from where it should be, and a +27 offset wheel would only make this worse, not correct it.

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[Bryan 93]

The picture that I think describes it really good is this. You can see that if you make the wheel wider, but maintain the same offset, all you are doing is making the wheel wider equally on the inner and outer surfaces (in our case it will be 1.5" more on the inner side, and 1.5" on the outer side from the stock 6" wide wheel). That does nothing to change the distance from the wheel centerline to the steering axes, so it does nothing to change the scrub radius.

 

[Phil1320]

Well if that's in fact true, then I missed something somewhere. That would also mean that Ludachris and a few others up here that do the road course thing, have "incorrect" wheels on their cars. I'll let them comment as I'm pretty sure they helped in the development process with said wheels. I'm just a student repeating what I thought I learned here. Come to think of it, I never paid attention in school either, was too busy drawing the General Lee. So maybe I failed 1G DSM Wheeltech 101...

 

[T2Small]

For me the issue is inboard clearance. Mind you I have a 2G, and limited ability from a rules point of view to modify anything that appreciably impacts inboard wheel clearance. Unfortunately that trumps scrub radius.

There's a few javascript calculators that you can play with. In my case I just check how much more inboard clearance I have on my current set, and compute what I need for the wider wheel. These calculators show the impacts on the inboard and outboard wheel location to give you an idea about wheel well clearance.

1010TIRES.COM - Wheel Offset Calculator

 

[Bryan 93]

I am by no means an expert, I don't want to come across like I am. I am just doing research. There might be more to the selection than scrub radius, though I can't seem to have found one. Maybe the +27 made the scrub radius closer to optimum? Just trying to understand the math and reasoning.

Well if that's in fact true, then I missed something somewhere. That would also mean that Ludachris and a few others up here that do the road course thing, have "incorrect" wheels on their cars. I'll let them comment as I'm pretty sure they helped in the development process with said wheels. I'm just a student repeating what I thought I learned here. Come to think of it, I never paid attention in school either, was too busy drawing the General Lee. So maybe I failed 1G DSM Wheeltech 101...

That's just it, it seems most would have inboard clearance issues, and that is why they would decrease the offset of the wheel, but that is what will change your scrub radius. From what I can tell on a 1g AWD, the rear trailing arm clearance is tight, but manageable. I have yet to measure anything, so I still hav work to do. I really want the Volk TE37 SL black edition wheels. They look bad ass, but the smallest they come in is 17x9 with +45 offset. If they will work, great, if they won't I will find something else. But before I throw down 3g's on a set of rims I better know if they work or not.

For me the issue is inboard clearance. Mind you I have a 2G, and limited ability from a rules point of view to modify anything that appreciably impacts inboard wheel clearance. Unfortunately that trumps scrub radius.

There's a few javascript calculators that you can play with. In my case I just check how much more inboard clearance I have on my current set, and compute what I need for the wider wheel. These calculators show the impacts on the inboard and outboard wheel location to give you an idea about wheel well clearance.

1010TIRES.COM - Wheel Offset Calculator

 

[Phil1320]

Its been a long time since I've been involved in these convos so I just went back and read through a bunch of posts. Other considerations were being able to fit 275 width tires and 14" brake set up. In reading it was stated that the 27mm offset was chosen to try to maintain as close to stock scrub radius as possible. As the diagrams show, and those were posted elsewhere, that apparently can't be true.

Anyway, Greg Collier ran them and gave them nothing but praise....