Torn between Intake Manifolds

[RipperXX]

I can't seem to find the video of the "new" compound turbo car. I watched it the other day and now I can't find it... Any help?

 

[toofast82]

Well speak of the devil, I just got offered a working cyclone for 60bucks and even though I was looking at other intakes on the market, I thought about it for a couple seconds and say hell with it, Im trying to save some money here, so I got it. So I guess this is what Ill be running now. Its ready to bolt on and go, but I dont know what rpm the actuators will activate at this point. Im glad to hear you like yours over the 1g even with it not working properly, makes me not hesitant about using it, and also Ill have a hx40 going on when this e316g comes off - and with the extra lag of the hx40 it may be a great choice after all since Im now only looking for low 400whp.

You'll like it especially if you have it functioning properly, and if you don't for some reason, i'm sure you could sell it for what you paid easily. If you use Link, its pretty simple to activate through the fpr solenoid. Jdm Ecu activates them at 4100rpm.


I payed a member on here for the actual cyclone vacuum canister, because i'm unsure why my setup isn't working anymore. It could be the dakota checkvalve?. I have the chip coded for the fpr solenoid to actuate it. I set it down to 1500rpm to test it and its not working, so i'm not sure if for some reason there is a problem with the solenoid itself? I confirmed my coding is correct with Jeff O. from DSMChips. If the canister doesn't work, i'll go to a jyard and pick up another solenoid.

 

[byebyev8]

is there a big power difference with the butterflies working. I'm running a e316g on e85 at 28psi and i already have tons of low end torque but I can always use more.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Ive read somewhere of up to 40 more ft/lbs on the low end with the properly working cyclone, and a few hundred rpm work of spool decrease. Thats pretty significant, and will make the car feel peppier and probably feel like it has a little more displacement from my guess.
My Evo3 was seeing 25psi around 3200rpm's in the upper gears, getting spool down to 3k at that psi will be nuts, maybe spool too fast, its already hard to drive on the highway in 5th without boosting .

 

[toofast82]

There is definitely quicker spoolup with the runners closed as well as noticeable torque increases down low. Like I said, i'm surprised more people don't run these. I never hear the ones that do complain though! I'd like to see what one of these would do in conjunction with something a little bigger like an hx35 or hx40

 

[Black_Bullet]

Well what sounds like a mean street combo to me is a hx35 on a 2.3 stroker high CR motor with a cyclone intake manifold- I bet that would spool above 25psi below 3500rpm and scream all the way to 8 grand with the right cams/supporting mods, which would be nuts.

When my e316g comes off im installing a hx40 whenever i get the bolt on housing to run it. I know there will be plenty of turbo lag that I will want to make up for below 4k, so the cyclone is starting to seem more appealing with my current goals. As long as it can still pull some pretty good numbers on top end, and pull above 400awhp on pump gas then it will be worth it. I just dont want to deal with any butterfly runner issues with the cyclone, I want to put it on, and for it to work, and keep working with no maintenance, thats were the value will mainly be at for me.

The funny thing is, I actually had a cyclone not too long ago and I never got around to installing it because I didnt have the gaskets or the T25 mod to actuate it and I never put the effort in doing so, even though I should have, because it was real nice, polished and all... I ended up selling it thinking I was going to run a high end SMIM setup, but after realizing i dont need anything like that, nor want to dish out the kind of money in purchasing a good one, my goals lowered back down to Earthling levels of just having an affordable, reliable and decently quick setup. This is what re-sparked my interest in the cyclone.

 

[SBR Joe]

Well what sounds like a mean street combo to me is a hx35 on a 2.3 stroker high CR motor with a cyclone intake manifold- I bet that would spool above 25psi below 3500rpm and scream all the way to 8 grand with the right cams/supporting mods, which would be nuts.

When my e316g comes off im installing a hx40 whenever i get the bolt on housing to run it. I know there will be plenty of turbo lag that I will want to make up for below 4k, so the cyclone is starting to seem more appealing with my current goals. As long as it can still pull some pretty good numbers on top end, and pull above 400awhp on pump gas then it will be worth it. I just dont want to deal with any butterfly runner issues with the cyclone, I want to put it on, and for it to work, and keep working with no maintenance, thats were the value will mainly be at for me.

The funny thing is, I actually had a cyclone not too long ago and I never got around to installing it because I didnt have the gaskets or the T25 mod to actuate it and I never put the effort in doing so, even though I should have, because it was real nice, polished and all... I ended up selling it thinking I was going to run a high end SMIM setup, but after realizing i dont need anything like that, nor want to dish out the kind of money in purchasing a good one, my goals lowered back down to Earthling levels of just having an affordable, reliable and decently quick setup. This is what re-sparked my interest in the cyclone.

JMF Race manifold or the JMF Race manifold......i think you see where im goin with this. haha

 

[Black_Bullet]

JMF Race manifold or the JMF Race manifold......i think you see where im goin with this. haha

LoL, Well I already picked up this cyclone for cheap. The hx40 isnt goin on yet so well see how it does with the 16g at least. My friend has a jmf race mani laying around, so im sure he'll let me borrow his to go dyno the different between cyclone and jmf whenever the hx40 goes on. Only looking for 400awhp on 93oct which I feel I can pull off with a Hx40. I have a slew of supporting mods, kelford cams, and the ability to tune near 30psi on pump gas. But IF I do end up trying out my friends smim and if the jmf race over the cyclone proves a night and day difference worth 600 bucks then ill reconsider that manifold But honestly I am trying to finish my car and just be content as Im trying to somewhat get out of the game. Times are looking too tough ahead to continue enduring all my cash flow into the car if you know where im going with this.

 

[toofast82]

Just to update a little: I recieved the original vacuum valve for the Cyclone and still doesn't work. It worked great during testing and a first few times on the car and then stopped functioning. I'm going to go the junkyard Monday probably and grab another fpr solenoid that could be the only other thing. the actuator on intake will close when vacuum is applied just fine, Jeff O. confirmed the coding, and tried the jdm vacuum can.
Also had the water pump go bad, so a perfect time to install my HKS 264/272 cam combo i've been staring at in the garage for almost a year. Also as I had predicted, the balance shaft belt was shredded and sitting pretty close to the timing belt. I'm sure it's been like that for awhile. I'm sure I lost a little power from installing it, but its definitely smoother. I can feel an all around power gain from 4500rpm+ and it pulls effortlessly past 7k with the cams. Goodbye stock a/t cams.

 

[BrokenTsi]

A few years ago, someone did an intake manifold test. I forgot the details, but they tested a JMF, Magnus, Venom, stock, and maybe a few others. Surprisingly, the Venom was a top performer IIRC.

 

[toofast82]

A few years ago, someone did an intake manifold test. I forgot the details, but they tested a JMF, Magnus, Venom, stock, and maybe a few others. Surprisingly, the Venom was a top performer IIRC.

You're probably speaking of this one
DSM Sheet Metal Intake Testing

I'm sure if my power band was to 8k+, I would much benefit from a shorter runner SMIM. I also see a different trend coming up with plenum design similar to the style of the JMFab Drag SMIM, which a few companies seem to have went to. This is far different from the Venom style plenum, although it is very big, but notice how close to stock cc the old Magnus is and how many people use that.

 

[dsm-onster]

Goodbye stock a/t cams.

Worst cams ever! . . . They have 244 duration (advertised) and the n/t cams have at least 252 duration on the intake cam. A/T cams also have the lowest lift offered by mitsu cams for all the 1g years.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Just to update a little: I recieved the original vacuum valve for the Cyclone and still doesn't work. It worked great during testing and a first few times on the car and then stopped functioning. I'm going to go the junkyard Monday probably and grab another fpr solenoid that could be the only other thing. the actuator on intake will close when vacuum is applied just fine, Jeff O. confirmed the coding, and tried the jdm vacuum can.
Also had the water pump go bad, so a perfect time to install my HKS 264/272 cam combo i've been staring at in the garage for almost a year. Also as I had predicted, the balance shaft belt was shredded and sitting pretty close to the timing belt. I'm sure it's been like that for awhile. I'm sure I lost a little power from installing it, but its definitely smoother. I can feel an all around power gain from 4500rpm+ and it pulls effortlessly past 7k with the cams. Goodbye stock a/t cams.

Balance shaft belt, what the hell is that for?



Yea fix your cyclone so i can keep reading good stuff bout it!

 

[viperlp01]

Man i have a chance to pick up a venom for 100 bucks as well.. I thought the runners were longer but they obviously aren't Im also on a e3 16g but when i get my stroker build done i will be going hx35.. Im awd and have dsmlink so i can set up anitlag so i can have some torque off the line.. Im worried that the plenum being almost 3 times bigger than all the other tested will hurt me torque wise.. You think it is worth it

If i decide to go with this i can log both manifolds.. Im talking a stock 2g and a venom.. My buddy is also building an engine right now and he has the evo3 manifold.. Ill see if i can get my hands on that..

 

[toofast82]

My shifter bushings on the actual shifter lever went to crap all of a sudden last night and there was so much slop in the shifter. Went to the jyard to find either a good shifter or the bushings themselves. They only had 2 1gs, one was auto and the other 5spd already had the shifter missing. I was able to find the bushings in a newer hyundai that worked perfect and are in good shape.
I was wanting to pick up another FPR solenoid, but no luck there unfortunately, If anyone has a spare let me know. Obviously not looking to pay more than single digit dollar figure shipped
How often did these go bad? I mean I'm sure there are only a few 1gs which probably still have the fpr solenoid functional on the regulator.
So until I get a good fpr solenoid, i'm at a standstill with getting it to function properly.
Is there any quick way to test the solenoid I have? It doesn't seem to be closing off vacuum if I hold my finger around the solenoid when the rpm is activated when testing.

 

[94awdcoupe]

I found some old notes the other day on cyclone. these numbers are from my 57trim turbo. the 1st column is 1g extrude honed, second is cyclone. The numbers are from g-tech which read low. On dynojet it made 411HP/410TQ at 22-23psi
RPM =1G =cyclone
4000=202=247
4500=290=292
5000=314=325
5500=341=343
6000=366=367
6500=353=351
7000=319=308

keep in mind this is against a extrude honed 1g Vs. stock unported cyclone. also the biggest gains are seen from 2500-3500rpm. I just wasnt recording numbers at those rpms. cyclone is a hell of a piece if you ask me.

 

[dsm-onster]

^^^ That's pretty impressive results there. Does anyone have any numbers of a cyclone agains a non extrude hone intake? I'm sure extrude honing helps that 1g manifold do it's job better up top. Extrude hone cyclone, anyone?

 

[toofast82]

^^^ That's pretty impressive results there. Does anyone have any numbers of a cyclone agains a non extrude hone intake? I'm sure extrude honing helps that 1g manifold do it's job better up top. Extrude hone cyclone, anyone?

Yeah i'm sure an EH'd Cyclone would be pretty impressive all the way around.
I'm also curious about results and I know you are too about what Dr. Turbo did by adding some additional plenum to one? He already said he isn't doing any parts swapping. Like I said in that thread, I would think there would be some advantages of increasing plenum size from ~1200cc to ~16-1800cc without completely altering the cars manners by going with like 4000cc. I'd even like to see results done on a standard 1g IM

 

[dsm-onster]

His screen name is highbooost. MY opinion: I'll not call him 'Dr Turbo' until he displays highly detailed compressor or turbine theory explanation and understanding. Claiming to beat a z06 on the intarweb doesn't count.

Also, my opinion is that the manifolds that show an increase in performance from an increase in plenum volume are really seeing the benefits from moving the throttlebody (or plenum inlet) farther away from the runners; thus balancing the flow more and decreasing the angle the air has to turn to enter the runner mouths. If you think about it, when at WOT, the entire intake track adds volume to the plenum. How can a few CCs more in 'plenum volume' at the plenum vs. the whole volume of the intercooler piping actually help enough to be noticable? It's such a small percentage difference.

 

[dsmjay]

have you gotten another solinoid yet? I would like to see you get this thing perfected...I may just make the jump to a cyclone myself...

 

[91-gsx]

This is a dyno chart of a fp green powered dsm with stock cams and intake manifold in the blue. Then they swapped out just the intake manifold to an extrude honed intake manifold and still left the stock cams in, that is the red line. At 5000rpm and over is where the extrude hone process makes a difference in power. At 7000rpm the horsepower is up by almost 70hp and the torque is up by 50ft/lb... I'm not trying to argue, but the idea that it made close to the same amount of power as a even stock 1g intake manifold at over 5000rpm on a G-TECH is worthless.... And this is a 1g extrude honed intake that the stock cyclone is being compared too... The cyclone is GREAT and I personally think it ROCKS... But i DO NOT believe it can hold a candle to even a stock 1g intake manifold at over 5000rpm.. The numbers at the bottom between the 1g extrude hone vs the cyclone at the same rpm being that close also are not justified when he made well over 400hp on real a dyno.. Also wanted to add that the G-TECH is good at calculating times and is close at guessing a quarter mile time, but they almost always have the trap speed wrong, and that is a lot when it comes to top end from intake manifolds being tested.. I am not trying to bash, I am pointing out what should be obvious..

I found some old notes the other day on cyclone. these numbers are from my 57trim turbo. the 1st column is 1g extrude honed, second is cyclone. The numbers are from g-tech which read low. On dynojet it made 411HP/410TQ at 22-23psi
RPM =1G =cyclone
4000=202=247
4500=290=292
5000=314=325
5500=341=343
6000=366=367
6500=353=351
7000=319=308

keep in mind this is against a extrude honed 1g Vs. stock unported cyclone. also the biggest gains are seen from 2500-3500rpm. I just wasnt recording numbers at those rpms. cyclone is a hell of a piece if you ask me.

 

[dsm-onster]

Well, that makes sense. The whole point of the cyclone manifold is to do what you say it does. Provide power under 5K. We're all looking at the difference below 5K . That is exactly where the cyclone beat out the extrude honed manifold in the info provided by 94awdcoup. The extrude honed manifold matched the stock 1g up to 5K. The question is what can be done to help the cyclone perform over 5K like a 1g intake manifold???. . .

Thank you for that info. Glad to see some comparison of the extrude honeds vs. stock 1g intake manifold.

Where is the simple test of the 1g intake vs. the cyclone?????

 

[Black_Bullet]

Idk, the cfm difference is minoot from what I recall, I would think the cyclone would be better midrange and low end and then be similar to a stock unported 1g up top.
The 1g should only barely out perform it up top, and its not like the cyclone cant be ported out some.
I remember there was a thread here a long time ago were the guy with the white 2g gained 40ft/lbs down low from switching to the cyclone without loosing anything up top, but I dont know if he was coming from a stock 1g or 2g mani, and Ido know that he self ported his cyclone.

 

[91-gsx]

Idk, the cfm difference is minoot from what I recall, I would think the cyclone would be better midrange and low end and then be similar to a stock unported 1g up top.
The 1g should only barely out perform it up top, and its not like the cyclone cant be ported out some.
I remember there was a thread here a long time ago were the guy with the white 2g gained 40ft/lbs down low from switching to the cyclone without loosing anything up top, but I dont know if he was coming from a stock 1g or 2g mani, and Ido know that he self ported his cyclone.

Well the cyclone as far as I know is made for a small intake port 2g head.. If he did gain 40ft/lb for torque from the manifold swap. He would of had to have come from the stock 2g intake manifold because bolting a 1g intake manifold to a 2g head will just lose power.. It further makes sense that he gained 40ft/lb of torque at the low end and then did not lose any top end because the 2g intake manifold is known not to flow as well as a 1g intake manifold up top in the first place... I think this cyclone intake manifold should blow away a stock 2g intake manifold in the low end and match its performance in the top end for sure... But it is known that the smaller ports do not flow up top anywhere near like the 1g intake manifold and head combo.. Now if you removed enough material to make the cyclone intake manifold match a 1g head but it still had a taper to the head flange, and then removed enough material to make the runners seems shorter because of the increased diameter, then you will have a really cool cyclone... But this does require a lot of time invested... Now if you wanted to take it one step further, you can tapper the runners, increase the internal volume through removal of material and then at then end finish it up with high grit sand paper and polishing compound inside by hand, this should give you close to extrude honing results.. Or if you could simply open up any intake manifold and then use a very high temp paint inside of the intake manifold, this will make the surface as smooth as the paint, which is very smooth.. These are just a few cheap ideas that work..

 

[toofast82]

Well the cyclone as far as I know is made for a small intake port 2g head..

It fits a 1g head. You may be thinking of the evo3 IM. I've seen "94awdcoupe" use epoxy to fill the runners to match up with a 2g head though

But i DO NOT believe it can hold a candle to even a stock 1g intake manifold at over 5000rpm

From someone who has ran both intakes in the past month, this statement is so untrue and you have nothing but what you "believe" to rely on. If my 1g IM creamed the Cyclone up top, it would already be back on the car.


As far as comparison to a stock 1g intake. Here is one thread I found where the guy ported the cyclone himself(not extrude hone). Not sure how much of a difference his porting made though.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/bol...nifold-where-can-i-get-gasket-make-one-4.html