Took out my honeycombs... bad idea?

[BoostInsideTSi]

After installing my big 16g turbo, i took out the honeycombs (ALL 4) in my MAS. I did this because I was getting fuel cut. Basically was a moron, and did not know to only take out the top, or sides. Anyway, Now I bought a SAFC, 550cc's, and a walbro 255 fuel pump. Would I notice any performance difference buying a new MAS? I've heard that taking out all 4 is not good. Just want to hear some opinions if this may be slowing me down. (I had a 14.4 best 1/4 mile on my car... not very impressed.. figured this might play a role in my bad turbo lag (4.5k full boost))

Thanks,
Mike

 

[karbon]

This is how I understand it:
The MAS on our cars count air in Karmanns, which is a count of the vortices in the intake charge. If you remove the center honeycombs, you're reducing the ability for the intake charge to produce those vortices. Sure you're decreasing the restriction in your intake, but you're also decreasing the amount of air the ECU 'sees'. That should make you run pretty lean. Put the center one back in and tune the fuel cut out of it. The rest of us that get fuel cut have bigger problems than a restrictive intake. There are myriad posts on fuel cut.

 

[98RedGs]

Put the honeycombs back in or get a 2gmas and wire it in.
Check vfaq on how to wire it up, under "electrical" or either its "intake".

 

[blcknspo0ln]

I think he is 2g try to get jus the honey combs, but chances are you'll have to buy a new unit.

 

[czech09]

supposedly it is a bad idea according to buschur racing..you might wanna check vfaq.com

 

[UW95GST]

can you remove them on a GM MAF?

 

[Syndicate13]

Jesus, this guy has a 1995 Talon Tsi according to his profile. That would indicate a 2G to me. Yes taking out all the honeycombs is a very bad idea and I would be severely impressed if the car even ran. So long story short put them back in, I hope you didn't throw them away. If so I believe you'll need to find a new mas since Mitsu probably doesn't sell them seperate. The put in the AFC, injectors, and pump and tune it, your car will thank you for it.

As far as the GM mas it is ok to remove the honeycomb since all it does is prevent debris from hitting the sensor wires. The GM mas is a hotwire type mas not karman so it doesn't need the vortices like our stocker does.

 

[karbon]

If you decide you need an MAS, check the parts for sale area of the forum within a week.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

If you decide you need an MAS, check the parts for sale area of the forum within a week.

PMs are fun

 

[eclipsed95]

My car sucked ass when I took the honeycombs out. After like a week of smelling gas, and a shitty idle, I put them back in

 

[BoostInsideTSi]

unfortunately, i threw all the honeycombs out. I'll be needing a new MAS then. I've seen them on dsmtrader for about 60 bucks at cheapest, so it's not that bad. My friends noticed the car smells like gas when I'm running it, and I've noticed that the idle is horribly unstable. The new MAS most likely should fix both these problems.

Anyone know if there is any power that would be lost with the MAS reading incorrect air flow like this?

Thanks for all your posts,
Mike

 

[98spydert]

This is how I understand it:
The MAS on our cars count air in Karmanns, which is a count of the vortices in the intake charge. If you remove the center honeycombs, you're reducing the ability for the intake charge to produce those vortices.Sure you're decreasing the restriction in your intake, but you're also decreasing the amount of air the ECU 'sees'. That should make you run pretty lean. Put the center one back in and tune the fuel cut out of it. The rest of us that get fuel cut have bigger problems than a restrictive intake. There are myriad posts on fuel cut.

You are right but I'll go a little deeper
The Kv MAF works by putting a small restriction (small plastic block) right in the middle of the MAF housing. Air hits this restriction and goes around it on either side creating small swirls of air on the back side of it, i.e. a little vortex. Like you said the sensor counts these swirls and sends the signal to the ecu. Along with temperature and barametric pressure, it determans the mass of air flowing through the housing. The honeycomb inserts evenly distribute air through the housing so theoreticaly the air passing through the lower right part of the housing is the same as the air hitting the restriction/sensor. When you take out those honeycomb pieces air moves around the center a lot easier so the ratio of air moving through the middle with the sensor to the air moving through the sides and top is stretched out and the ecu doesn't know it. ECU thinks less air is coming in and ads less fuel or the ECU gets inconstant readings and the car runs like pooh.