timing belt snapped and now have serious problem

[reavis_99]

So, here I go... I have a 2003 Galant ES 2.4L Its timing belt snapped at 80,000 miles and I figured I bent the valves. I took the head off and had it inspected by the local machine shop; they said it was fine(no bent valves). I do have spots on the pistons where the valves had made contact. I bought a new timing kit and replaced everything: belt, tensioners, etc. The old belt was at the bottom of the belt cover wrapped around the crank cog (by the CPS). So, I put everything back together and started the car. To my surprise, it started rough and the exhaust manifold started to turn cherry red after running for a few minutes. It revs up very slowly as if it has no power, I cant even drive the car it is so bad. Do you believe the machine shop made a mistake and I have bent exhaust valves, or do you think it could be another issue? I also pulled the exhaust manifold and started the car... to my surprise, fire came out as if the exhaust valves were open when it was firing the cylinders (Im assuming out of time possibly). Please help me, I am at a loss.

Could the balance shaft be out by 180 degrees causing this issue? I have read that on another forum. I am going to tear into it this weekend again and just wanted some advice. This is my first Mitsubishi car.

Thanks

 

[DSMnoobsause]

Sounds like the belt was installed wrong. Your cam timing is off.

 

[Timechg]

I just don't know how you have piston damage but "no bent valves", that is absurd. You probably had bent valves, a leakdown test will allow you to hear the air going past your valves (which they will because they are 100% bent).

 

[rlacasse1]

Sounds like you have it way out of time. Rip it back apart and make sure that it's correct.

And I don't see how you would leave marks in your pistons but not bend the valves. I guess anything is possible, but I would have a second machine shop take a look at it as well.

 

[DSMTyson]

I just don't know how you have piston damage but "no bent valves", that is absurd. You probably had bent valves, a leakdown test will allow you to hear the air going past your valves (which they will because they are 100% bent).

Its happened to me... Still sealed up great, but made slight dents in the pistons.

 

[Timechg]

Well hopefully OP will be just as lucky as you ^

 

[reavis_99]

Its happened to me... Still sealed up great, but made slight dents in the pistons.

Yes, that is what the machine shop said to me too. Did you have any issues with putting it back into time? When your belt broke did it mess with the crank trigger plate? Is your cylinder head acting okay with reinstalling it?

DSM Tyson,

How has your cylinder head been since you reinstalled it? Have you had any issues with the timing and did you have to replace your crank trigger plate since your belt broke too?

 

[DSM1G90]

4G64 (2.4L) is a SOHC 16v motor and he's lucky not to bend valves for being a interference motor - the single cam is what saved him.

Check belt timing, You could be off a few teeth.

Oil pump sprocket to get it in phase with the crank - do this trick (from VFAQ-this all goes for any 4G motor with Balance shafts) : Simply rotate the mark on the oil pump sprocket until it is pointing straight up, and let it go. If the sprocket rotates towards (counterclockwise) the timing mark on the engine, the oil pump sprocket is aligned correctly. If it rotates away (clockwise) from the mark, spin the sprocket a full turn and test again, and it should properly rotate towards the mark now. Now line the mark on the sprocket back up with the mark on the engine. This avoids having to remove the rear access bolt entirely.

 

[mchustle]

Sounds to me like cam is off or ignition timing is off.

 

[WES_393]

Sounds like you problem is definitely incorrect timining. Also, if the piston contacted the valves, it's very possible you have busted lifters. This is likely what saved the valves, but you will want to pull, inspect, and replace them if needed. Follow the guide for how to pull out the lifters.

How to fix 4G64 lifter tick - DSM Forums: Mitsubishi Eclipse, Plymouth Laser, and Eagle Talon Forum: DSMtalk.com

 

[reavis_99]

So, if it is just cam timing shouldn't that just be putting the engine back into time as normal? And what does one do about ignition timing? Wouldn't that be just aligning the crank trigger disc with the outside timing mark on the cover?

I'm also hoping that it is not a lifter issue... shouldn't that have been inspected by the machinist when I had it off earlier?

I'm also assuming that if the balance shaft is out of phase that this could cause the timing to be off as well?

Thank you again for all your help.

 

[WES_393]

Yes, to fix the mechanical timing you need to redo the timing belt job. For ignition timing, it's likely off because the crank timing mark is off, therefore the trigger plate if off.

As for lifters, yes the shop should have inspected them, but that doesn't mean they did. Every 4g64 I've worked on that jumped timing had no (obviously) bent valves, but a handful of destroyed lifters. The lifters sit right on the valve stem, so they typically collapse rather than the valve bending, which can cause serious damage to the valve stem if not fixed. It wont cause running issues right away, but it's not something to ignore.

 

[1Gina2G]

good info on the 4g64 ^^ good to know.

i'm also surprised the head 'completely' checks out, knowing you can bend valves by just hand turning the engine. my last head had 1 slightly bent valve and it looked perfectly strait. just slightly bent. they have to be checked extremely closely.

 

[BogusSVO]

Not all machine shops, nor machinists have the same skill sets.

So depending on how the machinist checked your head, something could very well be overlooked or missed.

If all they did was fluid test the head, a slight bent valve could be sealed by crud/gunk in the runner.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/420313-how-fluid-test-4g63-cylinder-head.html

The only true way to check for a bent valve is chuck it up in the valve grinder and spin it.

Since you can see the marks in the top of the pistons, the valves touched, maybe not much, but still hit hard enough to remove the carbon off the tops of the pistons.

 

[reavis_99]

Is there a possibility of twisting the camshaft? Therefore, causing the valves to open incorrectly. You guys are great! Thanks!


Oh, another question... I looked on ebay for lifters, are they all the same or year specific? One guy said 89-04 another said 89-93, just asking because prices change from $39 to around $79.

 

[BogusSVO]

If the cam twisted, and not snapped in half. Then you have other issues.

Check the cam gear alignment pin in the cam, and then the slot/hole for the cam gear, to make sure they are not damaged.

 

[reavis_99]

How do you check the firing order? Could it be firing 180 out? That would make sense.

 

[buhay6]

How do you check the firing order? Could it be firing 180 out? That would make sense.

I wouldn't even bother trying to re-time it, I'd make sure all the components are good like Bogus said and take it to another machine shop for a second opinion. Be sure that all the head components are tip top before putting it back together again instead of saying screw it, and having to pull it back apart a little while down the road just to fix stuff that was over looked the first time.

 

[reavis_99]

Well, I tore into it last night and found that it appears to be out of phase with the balance shaft. I am going to put it into phase tonight and see what happens. Once I am done there (if it is not running correctly) I am going to take the valve cover off and check the lifters. Then, if all else fails... I will order a reman head. Anything else I am forgetting? Thanks a million guys... I will keep it updated.

 

[BogusSVO]

If you order a reman head from a supporting vendor... chek the reviews on them.

**EDIT**

Personally, I would pull the VC, and cams and do a quick leak down test, before I installed a new timing belt.

If you hear air out the intake or tail pipe, then you know you have bent valves at this point.

 

[reavis_99]

Well, I just finished... come to find out the timing was entirely off from the previous shop. I re-timed and started the car. Everything is going great now. My only problem is lifter tap, do to snapping the timing belt. I ordered new lifters, and will be installing them this weekend. Just wanted to say again THANKS for all of the help. This is a great group of car enthusiasts.

 

[reavis_99]

OK, here we go again... I have everything running great. My only issue is a tapping from the top end. So, I took WES_393 idea and I purchased new lifter and put them in the rockers. Well I started up the engine and still I have a ticking noise coming from the top end. I am really confused on what to do now. Any ideas?

Also, do I need to let the car idle for awhile to stop the tick? I just put them in and was almost out of gas so I could not let it idle very long.

 

[BogusSVO]

How much run time on the new HLAs?

Did you inspect the cams and followers for wear?

 

[Funfettie]

Exhaust leak? this will cause a ticking sound from exhaust bursts out the manifold gasket. did you use new gaskets, or reuse them? did you torque them down to spec.?

 

[reavis_99]

run time was only around 10 min if not less. I did not look at the cam or followers; the car only has 79,XXX on it.

It is not coming from the exhaust. I used new gaskets.