Timing Belt Broke/Bent Valves/Piston

[GeoTalon91]

So after only 2 days of owning the car the timing belt broke!

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The timing belt looks fairly new so I imagine that somehow the previous owner did something wrong in the installation.


I have yet to find the culprit that is responsible for tearing the belt in half.

Both intake and exhaust valves were bent. And it looks like they tried to fight the pistons for some extra space in the cylinder. ...

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Here is a close up of one of the pistons that got it the worst.

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My question is would these pistons still work or do they need to be changed?

Also would the rod bearings be damaged after the piston took a hit this bad?

And I've heard that the piston rings can get pinched, what would be the best way to find out without having to take the pistons out? The only way that I know of is pouring oil on top of each piston and checking a couple of hours later to see if any of it seeped through the cylinder.

Thanks in advance to everyone who can help me out.

Sad to say that this the first time I own an Eagle Talon and we have already started off on the bad foot.

 

[biowolf]

Ouch man! That piston was pounding! I've seen a few buddies of mine break timing belts and the piston damage was similar to your and they did not reuse them.. Anyway welcome with your first talon this site is full of information to get your car up and running good luck

 

[Talon IV]

Oh man that sucks... The bad thing about an interference engine I wouldnt be reusing the pistons. Sucks to have your first TSi and start off on this path, they can be way fun to own. Take a look around and see what other have done in this case, it'll set you off on the right path. but it looks like its time to rebuild the head and get some new pistons. And yeah you could have rod or rod bearing damage from that, it is a possibility

 

[SupremeDsm]

That timing belt looks far from new. You can see the ridges where it spins on the gears. If its not to bad on the pistons you can always sand down any high spots and reuse the pistons. If you dont sand down the spots then it will create hot spots on the piston. You can get a set of NPR pistons and rings for fairly cheap if you need to replace them.

 

[Abe'sGST]

Since it's half taken apart already i would go ahead and rebuild the engine. New pistons and rings with the bearings. Suck to think about it especially since you just bought it but this way you will now what's in it and dont have to worry about it snapping on you anytime soon.

 

[BigTyla]

Definitely do not reuse these pistons. It's a shame this happened to you this early, but buy yourself some piece of mind and rebuild the engine the right way.

I'm going through a related situation myself. I tore down the head on the Talon I acquired as a project and found one of the camshaft bearings trashed and the associated journal worn down. As much as I wanted to say "screw it" and throw everything back together, I know the right way (getting it machined or getting a good core) will yield much better results in the long run, even though it will be more expensive initially.

Do it right the first time.

 

[MichaelSuch]

Definitely do not reuse these pistons. It's a shame this happened to you this early, but buy yourself some piece of mind and rebuild the engine the right way.

What's wrong with re-using the pistons? 2 cars I have puchased we ran with piston damage like that from jumping time. Never knew it until I pulled the cars apart to be parted out. When I pulled it apart they were both still in good running condition.

Those pistons can be ran, but as said before sand down any high spots. What are your plans with this car? A quick DD? Track car? If you plan to do any kind of racing and depending on budget I would consider moving to a forged bottom end. If not, re-use those pistons.

 

[bastarddsm]

I wouldn't think twice about reusing the pistons, slapping a few new valves in the head, and running that bi***. But I live dangerously.

 

[BigTyla]

What's wrong with re-using the pistons? 2 cars I have puchased we ran with piston damage like that from jumping time. Never knew it until I pulled the cars apart to be parted out. When I pulled it apart they were both still in good running condition.

Those pistons can be ran, but as said before sand down any high spots. What are your plans with this car? A quick DD? Track car? If you plan to do any kind of racing and depending on budget I would consider moving to a forged bottom end. If not, re-use those pistons.

I didn't say they wouldn't work. They just might. But why risk it? If there's any significant amount of surface damage on those pistons they are junk. You can't just "sand them down" and hope for the best. We're talking about parts with very tight tolerances here.

Your experience might have been that your pistons were still in "good running condition" but they certainly weren't optimal.

 

[BogusSVO]

Pop the pistons out, if the rings still spin freely in the pistons you will be fine with knocking the high spots off the crown.

But if the rings are pinched in the ring lands replace the pistons.

also I would bet that you will need new guides in the head, they cracked when the valves bent.

 

[TrystanGST]

I just went thru this, literally. Timing belt broke, bent 10 valves.

I just sanded down the piston tops, making sure to remove as little as possible. Had the head rebuilt with new valves and guides. Apart from some boost leaks (not related to this), it's running like a champ.

It wouldn't hurt to replace the pistons if you have the cash and time, since it's already this far apart. But to do so requires not only new parts, but a fair bit of machine work on top of what you already need for the head.

 

[GeoTalon91]

Well I just ordered a head from the classifieds, The head has been rebuilt and is ready to be dropped on the block, so now it's decision time for what to do with the pistons.

The car will be a daily driver, but I must admit It will see the occasional trip to the track. I plan on keeping it boost friendly, no more than 16lbs on the engine.

If I do sand the high spots on the piston, does it require for me to take the pistons off from the block or can it be done with the pistons in the block?

Thanks guys everyone is helping a lot, i appreciate everyone's input thus far.

 

[WES_393]

You can sand the piston down while in the block, just keep a vacuum hose right next to the piston while you do it to suck up and debris. Then clean lightly with a mild or oil based solvent (such as WD40 or Deisel fuel) and your done.

It wouldn't hurt to replace the pistons if you have the cash and time, since it's already this far apart. But to do so requires not only new parts, but a fair bit of machine work on top of what you already need for the head.

And I fully agree with this ^.

 

[GeoTalon91]

Where can get a set of NPR pistons and rings for fairly cheap? I've looked around but no one seems to carry them.

Also, if I do decide to sand down the current pistons in the block and keep them on there would it be the same as the NPR pistons? Or are the NPR ones a bit better quality?

Thanks

 

[WES_393]

Where can get a set of NPR pistons and rings for fairly cheap? I've looked around but no one seems to carry them.

Also, if I do decide to sand down the current pistons in the block and keep them on there would it be the same as the NPR pistons? Or are the NPR ones a bit better quality?

Thanks

NPR's are basically OEM pistons, they are just considered a "knockoff". They are best found on Ebay. Just keep in mind that if you pull the pistons you will need to either hone the cylinders yourself or pull the block so a shop can do it. The new pistons will need to be press fit on the rods by a machine shop too. IMO this would also call for new rod bearings. I say clean them up and run them as is.

But here's a link to NPR pistons just in case you decide to go that route.
95-99 Mitsubishi Eclipse Eagle Talon 2.0LTurbo 4G63 Nippon Piston Set w/Rings | eBay

 

[GeoTalon91]

Also, I was wondering when the timing belt had torn off and we did not know it had torn off we tried starting the car, but the starter never engaged.It only made a whining noise. Does this mean that the starter went bad as well or is this normal when the timing belt breaks?

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I also noticed that the cam gears were eating up the timing belt cover and the previous owner tried a quick fix on it by slapping on some quick dry bonding stuff on it. I imagine that the timing belt cover has to be replaced as well, what worries me though is why t would be grinding against the cam gears.

 

[TrystanGST]

That's pretty normal. It's what mine did when the belt broke as well.

I'd definitely get a new cover. If the cam gears were rubbing I'd check the mounting brackets to make sure they aren't bent.

 

[GeoTalon91]

I'll check it and post the results, does anyone know whether the starter would still be good to use or does it need to be changed as well?

Thanks

 

[BogusSVO]

the starter should be fine, what you probly heard was the starter sping fast due to the t-belt being broken, and no compression being made.

 

[Aphix]

I slipped my belt and knocked the pistons, sanded them down to avoid hot spots and they ran fine. Unless you feel like going one big step further just clean them up.

 

[GeoTalon91]

@BogusSVO- Thats what I was hoping it was but I thought I would ask just to make sure seeing as to how the starter is hidden behind the block and looks like a pain to change once the head has been installed.

@Aphix- Thanks for the input, after much consideration that is the exact route I am going to take. I've heard from too many people that the pistons will work fine after they've been sanded down. The pistons don't look like they acquired too much damage. Plus the highest boost I'll be running is about 15lbs so I dont plan on going overboard with the boost.

Now I just gotta find a good deal on the Headgasket and the timing belt and all of its components, anyone know who has good package deals on these?

Also I have to see why the timing belt cover was hitting the cam gears and check for further damage, need to find a new timing belt cover as well, I do not believe that they are cheap.

What started off as a cheap project is quickly making a dent on the wallet-

 

[BogusSVO]

@geo... Like I said further up, pop the pistons out and inspect them, I have seen many pinch the rings that did not look all that bad.

If the rings still spin freely on the lands, install them right back and carry on...

 

[TrystanGST]

Wish I had thought to check piston rings before I put the head back on. Oh well.

And my broken timing belt ended up over $2000. But it was really just an excuse to do a LOT of stuff that I had been holding off on. I

f valves are bent, expect about $300-500 for head work, about the same for new components, and another $300 or so for gaskets/timing belt/etc. About $1000.

 

[97GSXBOOSTIN]

Personally I would change the pistons out, I know you said that you only plan on running 15lbs, but eventually you are prob gonna want to go faster (we all do) and in that case you will already have the bottom end for it. Just some forward thinking, but let us know how you make out either way.

 

[BoostedDSM75]

You have already done most the work, I would just replace everything that way "YOU" know what has been done to your engine just my .02