Time To Upgrade! GT35R BB vs. FP3065

[v2ner]

Hey ericbev, are you speaking from experience? Well, I happen to be runnin a 35R w/ 720cc's. My boost is set at 28psi. It's been like that for about a year and it's a DD. I've seen many people run the 35R @30+ psi. I don't have the pistons and rods to take it right now but it'll be shortly. Two of my friends from the chicago area are runnin the 35R @30+ psi with anti-lag. One is a blue EVO and the other is an EVO II mirage. The EVO hits 9s while the mirage hits 10s. Both are daily drivers. You might have ran into them. 28psi is a good setting for that turbo though....maybe it's a good idea you experience it for yourself first. It's not all about reading and finding the info, it's more about experience. Good luck to you, we'll still be here.

 

[v2ner]

daren p, as for the 20G @28 psi against 35R @19psi, your right. To be more specific, I should have said the 35R pulls more in 3rd gear on up. First and second gear, the 20G's got the upper hand. My only proof is driving the car. I do vote for DSMLink or at least S-AFC II. The best would be stand-alone such as Autronic P&P, AEM EMS, etc...

Oh yea, the EVO is runnin 40 psi w/ 920cc injectors.

 

[v2ner]

The EVO III turbo w/ 560cc's off an EVO @27 psi w/ 110 octane is perfect. I don't know if you were talking about pump gas, oldman.

 

[tstkl]

What kinda turbo would you recomend then oldman? My goals are 12's or high 11's at 20-25psi hopfully its around 400+ hp.

, thats like taking a rocket launcher with you on a duck hunt. you can do that with a 20g, or fp green/red. hell you can do that with an evo3 16g, its just a little harder. id suggest a 50 trim or something. not a gt35r...

 

[ericbev]

Hey ericbev, are you speaking from experience? Well, I happen to be runnin a 35R w/ 720cc's. My boost is set at 28psi. It's been like that for about a year and it's a DD. I've seen many people run the 35R @30+ psi. I don't have the pistons and rods to take it right now but it'll be shortly. Two of my friends from the chicago area are runnin the 35R @30+ psi with anti-lag. One is a blue EVO and the other is an EVO II mirage. The EVO hits 9s while the mirage hits 10s. Both are daily drivers. You might have ran into them. 28psi is a good setting for that turbo though....maybe it's a good idea you experience it for yourself first. It's not all about reading and finding the info, it's more about experience. Good luck to you, we'll still be here.

What exactly are you trying to get across here? As for the injector size, I believe we already went over this. I didnt say you couldnt run a turbo of this size with smaller units. I personally wouldnt do this and it is also not recommended to do this (by more people than just me), and I was simply explaining why.

As for streetability, I already said the GT35R puts out good pump numbers and can really kill on the strip. It just isnt really all that practical for the normal person. Most people would prefer a little more manageable powerband for more than just jamming 9 second passes down the track. Not to mention this really isnt what this guy is looking for/needs.

 

[daren_p]

^^^ Whats your base fpr. That plays a huge part

My base fp is like stock ~44 psi.

 

[oztofrdm]

My base fp is like stock ~44 psi.

If you raised your FPR your IDC should lower which is how we can run a 35r on 720cc's

 

[daren_p]

If you raised your FPR your IDC should lower which is how we can run a 35r on 720cc's

Yes I know this, where did I say anything about it not being possible to run the 35r on 720's I haven't made any reference as to what injectors to run on the 35r, as I don't have any experience with it WTF

 

[~laser_craver~]

WOW Im glad we have so much interest and help with my delema. I'm looking around at the fpgreen and 20g's and have been offered a hahn racecraft super 20g for a respectable price so i migth go that route, but if not Im going to go witht he fpgreen and am looking for an eprom ecu so i can get a dsmlink. Ive heard it is really straight forward and easy to tune so i have my hopes up for that. Thanks for all the help

 

[nanokpsi]

Just for your information, a 35R @19 psi feels like a 20G @28 psi. Which ever one you choose, good luck.

I had originally not wanted to say anything to contradict this as I did not want to clutter this thread, but generally this statment is false. A 20g is good for 44-45lb/min. Basically a 1g with cams will hot that with 25psi. On the same car the in the same temps/alltitude, that car will be hard pressed to flow much more than 40 lb/min @ 19 psi.

 

[daren_p]

WOW Im glad we have so much interest and help with my delema. I'm looking around at the fpgreen and 20g's and have been offered a hahn racecraft super 20g for a respectable price so i migth go that route, but if not Im going to go witht he fpgreen and am looking for an eprom ecu so i can get a dsmlink. Ive heard it is really straight forward and easy to tune so i have my hopes up for that. Thanks for all the help

DSMLink IS worth every penny they charge. Anyone can be a tunning pro with it & if you can't you need to get another hobby . As for the Hahn 20g you might want to do some reading on that turbo, I believe it uses a 10 cm housing, which gives you alot more lag. They also use an adapter flange to bolt up to the stock mani. Its like every other turbo some hate em & some love them.

 

[~laser_craver~]

Yes the guy has offered the complete install kit with it including all oild and water lines and the adapter plate and tubular o2 housing aswell. He wants 500 bucks for it.

 

[dalatinromeo]

Yes the guy has offered the complete install kit with it including all oild and water lines and the adapter plate and tubular o2 housing aswell. He wants 500 bucks for it.

Just be sure you check out the turbo for play and all the other inspections you would perform before purchasing a used turbo. But if you are getting a used 20g, tubular 02 housing, and oil and water line sounds like a hell of a good deal.

 

[v2ner]

I had originally not wanted to say anything to contradict this as I did not want to clutter this thread, but generally this statment is false. A 20g is good for 44-45lb/min. Basically a 1g with cams will hot that with 25psi. On the same car the in the same temps/alltitude, that car will be hard pressed to flow much more than 40 lb/min @ 19 psi.

Yea, that's just the way it was for me.

Powerband is fine when your redline is 10k. Yea, I know throttle response isn't the greatest though.

The green is a great choice for your goal. On pump gas it'll be harder though, on 110 octane, it's pretty easy. Good luck.

 

[ericbev]

Here are a few threads about the HRC S20G.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49580&highlight=super+16G
www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8110&highlight=hahn+super+20g
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32523&highlight=hahn+super+20g

The general consensus is to ditch the way too big 10cm2 housing and the gimpy adapter plate and slap on a 7cm2 housing. This way it will bolt right up and not be a lag machine.

Since you already have the B16G, you just could steal the 7cm2 turbine housing off of it.

 

[~laser_craver~]

will it just bolt right onto the 20g compressor housing? and doesnt it need to be rebalanced afterwards?

 

[ericbev]

will it just bolt right onto the 20g compressor housing? and doesnt it need to be rebalanced afterwards?

What I meant was, you already have the housing and dont have to purchase one elsewhere.

I am no expert on turbo construction, so dont quote me on this, but since both sides of the CHRA are staying intact, and you are just removing the housing and replacing it with another one, it shouldn't not be nescescary. I would think that switching wheels from one to another would be what requires balancing. Just replacing the turbine housing with another one, shouldn't require this.

Hopefully someone with expierence in this manner will pipe in and set the record straight.

 

[98eclipseRS]

will it just bolt right onto the 20g compressor housing? and doesnt it need to be rebalanced afterwards?

YOu would take the turbine housing from your big16g and put it onto the CHRA of your s20g. Yes it would bolt right up, no you would not need to balance it. You are balancing the center section(wheels + shaft) not housings. I know its been said before but I would look into going full garret. It ends up costing you a bit more in the end but you have so many more options than with the mitsu/hybrid setup and you get much better exhaust housing choices(think gt 4bolt housing).

I would say go with a 50 trim or a "super" 50 trim. I made 402whp on 91 pump gas at 24psi. I hit full boost by 3800rpm(not bb CHRA to boot!) and the power delivery is about as far unstreetable I would go if you plan to you this thing as a DD or even a car that sees alot of street use. I plan on uprgading to something larger but even with this turbo its either go or don't go. There is nothing under the threshhold of full boost and full boost hits fast and hard. For your goals a 20g or 50 trim is about as large as I would go, and again I would recomend the full garret set up over the mitsu turbo.


Edit: I would for sure go with larger injectors from the get go, nothing and I mean nothing is more annoying than having to redo your entire setup and get another tune because you thought you could run smaller injectors and get away with it. Trust me running your injectors at 100% or nearly as close is a bad idea. All it takes is a batch of bad gas or a slosh in the fuel tank and your done. Second raisnig the base fuel preasure to band aid a already bad situation is certainly an absolute recipe for disaster do it right the first time and enjoy the benefits.

 

[ericbev]

YOu would take the turbine housing from your big16g and put it onto the CHRA of your s20g. Yes it would bolt right up, no you would not need to balance it. You are balancing the center section(wheels + shaft) not housings.

I thought I was correct on that.

I would say go with a 50 trim or a "super" 50 trim. I made 402whp on 91 pump gas at 24psi. I hit full boost by 3800rpm(not bb CHRA to boot!) and the power delivery is about as far unstreetable I would go if you plan to you this thing as a DD or even a car that sees alot of street use. I plan on uprgading to something larger but even with this turbo its either go or don't go. There is nothing under the threshhold of full boost and full boost hits fast and hard. For your goals a 20g or 50 trim is about as large as I would go, and again I would recomend the full garret set up over the mitsu turbo.

Finally someone else with some sense pops in here.

I would for sure go with larger injectors from the get go, nothing and I mean nothing is more annoying than having to redo your entire setup and get another tune because you thought you could run smaller injectors and get away with it. Trust me running your injectors at 100% or nearly as close is a bad idea. All it takes is a batch of bad gas or a slosh in the fuel tank and your done. Second raisnig the base fuel preasure to band aid a already bad situation is certainly an absolute recipe for disaster do it right the first time and enjoy the benefits.

Thank you for backing up both of my points that I was trying soo hard to illustrate. Where were you yesterday.

 

[~laser_craver~]

ok sounds good but the guy i am buying from i just spoke with him and he said that he spooled 15psi by 2900-3000 rpm all day long so that doesnt sound to bad to me.... hes including everything even the spacer plate and adapter plate for the turbo the only thing it needs is 2 of the extended manifold stubs because 2 of them broke of removal.....

 

[98eclipseRS]

ok sounds good but the guy i am buying from i just spoke with him and he said that he spooled 15psi by 2900-3000 rpm all day long so that doesnt sound to bad to me.... hes including everything even the spacer plate and adapter plate for the turbo the only thing it needs is 2 of the extended manifold stubs because 2 of them broke of removal.....

Not a chance in hell a S20g is hitting 15psi by 2k rpm. That's t25 territory. NOt even a 14b hits 15psi at 2k rpm. From my experience with S20g turbos(its limited but deffinately there) Spool blows. A buddy of mine has a S20g on his 2g gsx. Not only could he not ever get the manifold/adapter plate/turbo to seal correctly but the lag was unbearable and the turbo just would not make power. I know somepeople have turned good times(another friend ran consistant mid 11's in his full weight gvr4 with one) but with the hahn turbos it seems to be hit or miss as far as how they perform and you deffinately don't get a good spread as far as reviews go. There are no people who just like the s20g, you either love it or hate it. Not a chance I would be willing to take when buying one of the most important parts of your setup.

Its also a non bb turbo so transient response won't be that great. I really wish I had forked out the extra couple hundred dollars and picked up the BB center option on my "super" 50 trim. Its not reallly the spool I am concerned about but when you buy a larger turbo you deffinately want to be concerned with spool between shifts. This is where a BB turbo will far outshine a standard thrust bearing turbo.


My last bit of advice for this post is that I would really advise against buying a used turbo, you really never know what's going to happen with it and then you are shit out of luck if something goes wrong. I bought a used turbo from a very good friend of mine. It had just been rebuilt and the person he had rebuild it told him it was balanced as well. Needless to say the turbo blew shortly after install because it was not balanced. So I was pretty much screwed. It was my word against the turbo rebuilders word that it was balanced and well I was done for. I will now only ever buy a new turbo. When you are spending this much money on a single mod make sure you get exactly what you want not something that you settled for because it came up. It also allows for a year warranty or more from the vendor you bought it from.

 

[98eclipseRS]

I thought I was correct on that.



Finally someone else with some sense pops in here.



Thank you for backing up both of my points that I was trying soo hard to illustrate. Where were you yesterday.

Haha thanks bro, just trying to do my job like you.

 

[Al_Scrap_Iron]

DSM Link is a very good product and I go with this for sure next summer, BUT ''stock'' ecu and piggyback are good also, and can work great with big turbo. Run several 135mph+run and 140mph; stock ecu and maf translator with SCM61 (siminar to gt35r, not ball bearing)

Al

 

[Slippi84]

o throw a couple things out there to the original poster because there are some people talkin out of hearsay and specualtion on here with obviously no hands on experience just what they have read on here.


!. 750's will work fine on a gt35r and NO you don't need a full garret to make real power. Hell there is a thread about the same setup(bolt on gt35r) that sbr tested and made like 600awhp with 750's I might add. People need to quit with this huge injector craze. How can you sit here and say you don't need some oversized urbo and yada yada yada and say you need 850's to run a gt35r when already 3 people have come on and told you they run it with 750's?????

2. Sure some one can come on here and tell you stop being a baby and tune the turbo you have and make power the hard way. if it was as easy as just sitting down with your evo and makin a shit load of power with a tuning session or two do you think they would need intermidate turbo's like a 50 trim or a 20g NOOO. If you can't tune your 16g to run low mid to low 11's don't go tellin people to tune there turbo like your jophn sheppard. They make bigger turbos for a reason "the average joe is not a tuning expert and can't make 400+ hp out of a 16g"

3. DId I hear someone say a 50 is not a good dd turbo???? I run a gt14 on dd and before that had a 50 trim trust me you my friend are in for a shock when you upgrade if you thought your 50 trim was unbareable. I have friends that have high 10 sec cars(60-1 cars mostly) for dd and you couldn't tell one appart from a 14 sec red eclipse cough cough just by seeing them on the road.

So again to the original poster if you want a turbo that is gonna make your goal for 400 hp easier go for it. I do agree that a 3065 and gt35r is overkill for your goal but it is in no way shape or form a dumb choice you would just have room to grow without dishing out another 1500 bucs in a year when like all of us you decide you want more power.


Ps. No matter which of these you choose do some reasearch on supporting mods like fmic fuel tuning which i saw some mis info in this thread that I won't adress right now cause my finger hurt but you can't just slap a turbo on witha manifopld and run 11's. Atleast if you want your car to last

 

[dalatinromeo]

So again to the original poster if you want a turbo that is gonna make your goal for 400 hp easier go for it. I do agree that a 3065 and gt35r is overkill for your goal but it is in no way shape or form a dumb choice you would just have room to grow without dishing out another 1500 bucs in a year when like all of us you decide you want more power.


Ps. No matter which of these you choose do some reasearch on supporting mods like fmic fuel tuning which i saw some mis info in this thread that I won't adress right now cause my finger hurt but you can't just slap a turbo on witha manifopld and run 11's. Atleast if you want your car to last

This is what I was trying to say yesterday.