Time Attack Build Blog

[KBR]

ey Drew, looks like theres a lil picture of your car in DSport. forgot what page it is, but I have a couple of copies


aite, peace.

 

[gixxerdrew]

Oh can you or someone scan the article? I cant pick up DSport at a newstand in Japan

Japan GT is nothing like American or European GT anymore, the cars cost double or more. Its changed so much in the last 5 years I didnt realize how much. They used to be factory chassis....

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[eclipsh]

Woah, I spent the last few minutes just trying to follow half of that photo and how the suspension is set up. That thing is nuts! Mind if I ask what sort of car that started out life as?

I really hope you get to learn a bunch and come back to add even more speed to your DSM. If you get to stay in Japan we'll just have to see video of it hitting the tracks there someday

Thanks for explaining so much of the aero you've built. I am curious if you could answer a few questions since you've modeled DSMs. Would there be any advantage to louvering the fenders on a stock body to help with the turbulence around the tires? Or really, what is the best way to get rid of that turbulence on a stock body?

Also, unrelated to aero but probably on a lot of people's minds, with the only car that beat your team's time being AWD have you thought about doing the conversion? (Waiting to be flamed by GS-T owners everywhere ) Just wondering if the extra weight would be worth the extra traction for you. Did you go the route of getting an AWD tranny build for FWD? If I remember right a few shops do it that way for performance apps. I would expect a built tranny to be the major expense in the conversion besides maybe wider tires and new aero for the rear.

Thanks for sharing your build with us. Beautiful project and one hell of an accomplishment.

 

[RipperXX]

Damn!

 

[gixxerdrew]

Woah, I spent the last few minutes just trying to follow half of that photo and how the suspension is set up. That thing is nuts! Mind if I ask what sort of car that started out life as?

Yah the car is crazy. That car is supposed to be an IS350 Lexus. But what it really is, is one third DTM car, 1/3 formula car and 1/3 GT. The layout of the rear section is like a formula car, the engine and gearbox are structural and there's just a carbon body that resembles the IS350 attached to it. With one exception, the A/B pillars and the roof need to be from the original car but they are connected by bulkhead style carbon. These cars are factory developed the same aero guys working for Toyota F1 are designing this body. The engines now are roughly like an Indy engine (Formula Nippon) but with restrictors bringing the power way way down (GT300 is 300hp spec). The cars cost around $1m USD

I really hope you get to learn a bunch and come back to add even more speed to your DSM. If you get to stay in Japan we'll just have to see video of it hitting the tracks there someday

So Ill tell you the truth, I'm trying to bail on the US. I think motor sports is more alive in Japan. But the good news is, I'm chugging through some ideas to do just that and get my car to Japan and compete in some time attack here. It's all a big maybe I just am starting to look into the logistics, costs involved and if its even realistic considering the Japan time attack rules. I'd need sponsors, lots of sponsors. its a very expensive proposition in comparison to just parking it at my parents house or something and leaving it in the states haha. But I'd like to bring the car here and continue the development if I can move to Japan. I'm trying to work on it. All the people here think I'm weird for wanting to leave the US.

My time at superGT this weekend was really cool, I was really glad because all my understanding of the aero stuff is confirmed. I was right on the money for everything and learned about just a few specific details to some problems that I wasn't sure how they were dealing with and that was cool.

Thanks for explaining so much of the aero you've built. I am curious if you could answer a few questions since you've modeled DSMs. Would there be any advantage to louvering the fenders on a stock body to help with the turbulence around the tires? Or really, what is the best way to get rid of that turbulence on a stock body?

Most of the aero ... i've only been able to post a small portion of it.

Turbulence isn't really the thing for the louvers its high pressure your trying to get rid of and yes a stock body would benefit from louvered fenders in terms of lift coefficient but louvered fenders are a (relatively) high drag downforce device so you have to think carefully about your compromises. For a first aero mod, a well designed splitter will give you by far the most bang for your buck and a relatively low drag penalty for front downforce. That's why you see it as one of the most common ad ons in culb racing, etc except they usually design and execute them poorly

Also, unrelated to aero but probably on a lot of people's minds, with the only car that beat your team's time being AWD have you thought about doing the conversion? (Waiting to be flamed by GS-T owners everywhere ) Just wondering if the extra weight would be worth the extra traction for you. Did you go the route of getting an AWD tranny build for FWD? If I remember right a few shops do it that way for performance apps. I would expect a built tranny to be the major expense in the conversion besides maybe wider tires and new aero for the rear.

Thanks for sharing your build with us. Beautiful project and one hell of an accomplishment.

Considering all the money spent on the car, AWD was considered at several occasions. Primary I decided against it because of softer competition in terms of the classing. I preferred to get the car out there, be a slower (FWD) car, but win with it and then try to progress to a faster, more developed (AWD) class as I can accumulate sponsors by result of race wins.

The second major hurdle for me is that AWD handling is extremely dependent on differentials. The differentials working in harmony is a primary factor in the vehicle handling well or total crap. This is a principle advantage that the EVO has over the DSM, a lot of attention was paid to this in the decade mitsu was refining the AWD system. I believe that I now know the right people and have the right knowledge to get a DSM AWD system up to modern standards. And I also now know I have a car that would surely be competitive even in AWD classes. But, my time of spending big money on the car may be drawing to a close and if I move to Japan you cant exactly pick up DSM gearboxes at your local junkyard and shipping to shep is a big deal. So I dont know yet, that's the real deal. But I love the car, I want to continue developing it, I'm working on stuff but too many possible ways to go and too many unknowns right now to have any clue about the car's future, wish I did though. I'm kind of struggling just to focus on whats in front of me right now, learning the language and my two simultaneous career paths is a lot. Racing and my job I'm having to learn some new technology and they are strugging with the economy.

Anyway I guess its my blog so i can talk about myself and since we're on the subject of what I been up to haha.....

I dont know if you guys know these guys but heres a pic of me with some guys I've really looked up to for a long time some of the top drivers in Japan and I had a blast with them, really cool and friendly guys. Drift people in the US will definitely recognize them.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

This is me, Orido, Kataoka, and Taniguchi. Orido and Taniguchi are GT500 SuperGT drivers (also famous from the hot version videos) and Kataoka is Orido's co driver at Project Bandoh in GT300 this year.
orido info
Manabu Orido - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

kataoka doesnt have a wiki page but hes from Formula Nippon

Nobuteru Taniguchi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

After the race (which was a great result for Bandoh, returning to the points lead) I was really lucky that they invited me to the dinner, really good guys. Hard to understand Japanese when it turned technical but I'm learning a lot day by day.

 

[eclipsh]

Turbulence isn't really the thing for the louvers its high pressure your trying to get rid of and yes a stock body would benefit from louvered fenders in terms of lift coefficient but louvered fenders are a (relatively) high drag downforce device so you have to think carefully about your compromises. For a first aero mod, a well designed splitter will give you by far the most bang for your buck and a relatively low drag penalty for front downforce. That's why you see it as one of the most common ad ons in culb racing, etc except they usually design and execute them poorly

Do you have suggestions on how a good splitter should be built or on a book of basics? I'd be curious what trade offs are worth making on a street car since that is what most of us have.

The second major hurdle for me is that AWD handling is extremely dependent on differentials. The differentials working in harmony is a primary factor in the vehicle handling well or total crap... I believe that I now know the right people and have the right knowledge to get a DSM AWD system up to modern standards... [In] Japan you cant exactly pick up DSM gearboxes at your local junkyard and shipping to shep is a big deal.

Yeah, but finding an Evo 3 tranny is more doable Actually, send a few back this way while you're there. Also there is a diff made by a Japanese company for the Evo 3 which changes the torque bias to a 40/60 rather than 50/50. Just a few of the goodies it is hard to find when you're on this side of the world that you might want to look into while you're there.

 

[Scott McIntyre]

Also there is a diff made by a Japanese company for the Evo 3 which changes the torque bias to a 40/60 rather than 50/50. Just a few of the goodies it is hard to find when you're on this side of the world that you might want to look into while you're there.

Cusco Tarmac Gear. I run one in my 2G and love it! The car feels just like a RWD.

 

[turbo addict]

Cusco Tarmac Gear. I run one in my 2G and love it! The car feels just like a RWD.

Is that a center diff or does it replace the viscous coupler? And where do you find them??

 

[greengoblin]

It replaces the center diff. You can find them here: Product Info Nukabe Automotive 1-888-591-6277 and here Cusco - Tarmac Gear - Center Diff - Nengun Performance

 

[greengoblin]

Looks like your having a good time Drew. The one time I went to Japan I loved it. If I would not have just met my now wife I would have tried to to move there in a heart beat.

I hope we get to see more work on the car. If not then keep us posted on life abroad.

Kevin

 

[olmytsi]

Lucky to be hanging with those guys, i can only dream of that!

Maybe you can snag a ridox front for your supra if you buy him enough drinks

 

[KBR]

Yah the car is crazy. That car is supposed to be an IS350 Lexus. But what it really is, is one third DTM car, 1/3 formula car and 1/3 GT. The layout of the rear section is like a formula car, the engine and gearbox are structural and there's just a carbon body that resembles the IS350 attached to it. With one exception, the A/B pillars and the roof need to be from the original car but they are connected by bulkhead style carbon. These cars are factory developed the same aero guys working for Toyota F1 are designing this body. The engines now are roughly like an Indy engine (Formula Nippon) but with restrictors bringing the power way way down (GT300 is 300hp spec). The cars cost around $1m USD



So Ill tell you the truth, I'm trying to bail on the US. I think motor sports is more alive in Japan. But the good news is, I'm chugging through some ideas to do just that and get my car to Japan and compete in some time attack here. It's all a big maybe I just am starting to look into the logistics, costs involved and if its even realistic considering the Japan time attack rules. I'd need sponsors, lots of sponsors. its a very expensive proposition in comparison to just parking it at my parents house or something and leaving it in the states haha. But I'd like to bring the car here and continue the development if I can move to Japan. I'm trying to work on it. All the people here think I'm weird for wanting to leave the US.

My time at superGT this weekend was really cool, I was really glad because all my understanding of the aero stuff is confirmed. I was right on the money for everything and learned about just a few specific details to some problems that I wasn't sure how they were dealing with and that was cool.




Most of the aero ... i've only been able to post a small portion of it.

Turbulence isn't really the thing for the louvers its high pressure your trying to get rid of and yes a stock body would benefit from louvered fenders in terms of lift coefficient but louvered fenders are a (relatively) high drag downforce device so you have to think carefully about your compromises. For a first aero mod, a well designed splitter will give you by far the most bang for your buck and a relatively low drag penalty for front downforce. That's why you see it as one of the most common ad ons in culb racing, etc except they usually design and execute them poorly



Considering all the money spent on the car, AWD was considered at several occasions. Primary I decided against it because of softer competition in terms of the classing. I preferred to get the car out there, be a slower (FWD) car, but win with it and then try to progress to a faster, more developed (AWD) class as I can accumulate sponsors by result of race wins.

The second major hurdle for me is that AWD handling is extremely dependent on differentials. The differentials working in harmony is a primary factor in the vehicle handling well or total crap. This is a principle advantage that the EVO has over the DSM, a lot of attention was paid to this in the decade mitsu was refining the AWD system. I believe that I now know the right people and have the right knowledge to get a DSM AWD system up to modern standards. And I also now know I have a car that would surely be competitive even in AWD classes. But, my time of spending big money on the car may be drawing to a close and if I move to Japan you cant exactly pick up DSM gearboxes at your local junkyard and shipping to shep is a big deal. So I dont know yet, that's the real deal. But I love the car, I want to continue developing it, I'm working on stuff but too many possible ways to go and too many unknowns right now to have any clue about the car's future, wish I did though. I'm kind of struggling just to focus on whats in front of me right now, learning the language and my two simultaneous career paths is a lot. Racing and my job I'm having to learn some new technology and they are strugging with the economy.

Anyway I guess its my blog so i can talk about myself and since we're on the subject of what I been up to haha.....

I dont know if you guys know these guys but heres a pic of me with some guys I've really looked up to for a long time some of the top drivers in Japan and I had a blast with them, really cool and friendly guys. Drift people in the US will definitely recognize them.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

This is me, Orido, Kataoka, and Taniguchi. Orido and Taniguchi are GT500 SuperGT drivers (also famous from the hot version videos) and Kataoka is Orido's co driver at Project Bandoh in GT300 this year.
orido info
Manabu Orido - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

kataoka doesnt have a wiki page but hes from Formula Nippon

Nobuteru Taniguchi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

After the race (which was a great result for Bandoh, returning to the points lead) I was really lucky that they invited me to the dinner, really good guys. Hard to understand Japanese when it turned technical but I'm learning a lot day by day.

###ken baller status Drew! hangin out w/ Orido and Taniguchi.. man, thats livin the life bro!



aite, peace.

 

[greengoblin]

Are you still running the electic power steering pump?

I think I remeber you saying the seal on your rack gave out? Was that just from the age of the rack and those massive tires you are running?

Kevin

 

[gixxerdrew]

Naw that was like my 100th rack no rack had ever lasted me more than a year, so far this one has held up a couple races, part of the reason I wanted to redo the whole system was to try and solve the problem. Theres still some kind of a pinhole somewhere and I havent had a chance to track something down just for a few drips here and there. Yes I'm still running the electric power steering. The problem was that I needed a restrictor orifice in the system and it took a couple tries to get it right.

 

[gixxerdrew]

Lucky to be hanging with those guys, i can only dream of that!

Maybe you can snag a ridox front for your supra if you buy him enough drinks

yah I wish, I cant manage to buy the drinks.. he did a semi take down manuever on me for trying to pay at karaoke...

 

[gixxerdrew]

Do you have suggestions on how a good splitter should be built or on a book of basics? I'd be curious what trade offs are worth making on a street car since that is what most of us have.



Yeah, but finding an Evo 3 tranny is more doable Actually, send a few back this way while you're there. Also there is a diff made by a Japanese company for the Evo 3 which changes the torque bias to a 40/60 rather than 50/50. Just a few of the goodies it is hard to find when you're on this side of the world that you might want to look into while you're there.

Regarding the splitter, find out what your rules are for how big it can be and use it all. Make 100% sure that its at least level with the ground plane. I've seen some real disasters in this regard, items that basically just scoop air under the car. It all really depend on how far your rules let you go. On a stock DSM basically the idea would be to get some extension going on the nose of the bumper to get you a level with ground plane place to mount it. Alumalite is a cheap and readily accessible material. My splitter is a steel structure under alumalite under composite surface. It is exceptionally strong.

Some other tips, the splitter needs to seal 100% to the body. If you have any gaps in how it seals as the base of the bumper you need to fix them. The reason a splitter works is that the air moves around the nose of the car, it moves out in all directions as the car seperates air around it. With a splitter sticking out the air that was trying to move downward and head toward the under body cannot move that way because its stopped by a wall (the splitter) but the force of this air creates a high pressure on top of the splitter. The pressure is higher now on top of the splitter than under it and so the forces push the spitter downward. You also pick up additional negative lift because that air is not making its way into the underbody.

Make sure the splitter is rigid and well supported, a splitter that flexes is another serious screw up I've seen.

If your worried about your splitter scraping if ground clearance is an issue use jabroc skid plates. Its a highly compressed wood used for skid plates and planks (like F1). If you mount jabroc rigidly and a well designed strong splitter scraping is not that big of a deal you just have some replaceable jabroc skid plates you swap out over time. If you build it right you dont have to worry about breaking your splitter, just replacing your skid plates. On my car for example the entire weight of the car can be supported on the base of the front bumper if I scraped the nose on the ground it will probably just lift up the car. (well the paint would get screwed up but yah). Don't forget that the further your splitter sticks out the more rigid it has to be. I thnk if you reinforce it the RM lip is a good unit its just really low for a road driven car. At stock ride height on the roads where I live its pushing it. When I had one it was flexing so much it was scraping dirt off the dry lake surface but I dont know what kind of speeds you plan to see so you have to factor that in. That was approaching 200mph...

 

[Ludachris]

Hey Drew, would you happen to have photos of your front end with the bumper cover off? I'm curious to see how you routed your cooling ducting for everything.

 

[gixxerdrew]

I dont have anything recent enough to have that stuff and I wont be back for a while, sorry.

 

[01QuadDak]

Are you still running the Fp88 or have you moved to a different turbo?

 

[gixxerdrew]

I never used that turbo. I've only had two turbos on the car in recent history a 60trim t3/t4 and the 3582HTA

 

[eclipsh]

Thank you for the information on the splitter. Regarding rules, I don't have any as the only time I'll be on a track is for fun not competition. The guys at the Auto-X might have something to say but I don't really care. I'd really be building something for a street car that helps with stability and possibly fuel economy. The most it'll see is probably 100mph passing some tool in a motor home or maybe a little more once a year on a track. I'm sure that is what 98% of the members reading here are interested in as well since most of us can't afford to race competitively. We just get to race vicariously through you and others and then beg whatever info we can to better our street cars BTW, how is the race season shaping up over there?

 

[01QuadDak]

whoops, i thought you got a 88 when they announces the new HTA's, I might be regretting the purchase of an 88 tho, hopefully the lag isn't insanely bad.

 

[gixxerdrew]

I dont think I need any more power than I got on the 3582HTA if I unleash all the power I can light the tires up at 160+mph. Even if I was AWD I dont think I'd need any more power.

 

[gixxerdrew]

So it looks like my car will probably not be legal for street class next year. At least I'll be moving classes instead of getting outlawed almost by name like happened in land speed. Mod would be kind of cool anyways...

 

[FyxxterZC]

With how you are pushing the envelope for these cars, and by the looks of it whatever you do, will be successful. Whether you take home first or fifth, you're succeeding where 99 percent have not gone before. Good luck, and very very nice work!