Considering a 2g Time Attack build

[Slow old poop]

For the sake of competition. Have you ever noticed that even mid pack and at the very back of the field there is always a battle for position going on? It doesn't matter where you are in the rankings. If you love to drive your car 10/10ths against other people of equal (or better yet, greater!) skill level, and have the financial availability, then why wouldn't you? It's always great to be in the top 3 where all the cameras tend to go. But racing is racing to me. IDK about you.

Amen, brother.
I think. Depends on: What does IDK mean?

Rich

 

[mavisky]

IDK = I Don't Know.

..and it's also one of terms we shouldn't be allowing.

 

[underradar92]

Pull the claws back boys, the rules in Redline Time Attack http://www.redlinetimeattack.com/docs/2007RedlineTimeAttackRulesV2.pdf Are worlds apart from NASA's TT rules. http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/Time-Trial-Rules.pdf

Martin won't be dealing with the "4 door paradox".

 

[neoviper]

Are you guys done ripping into me ? I didnt mean to offend anyone with that post, and I dont think I came off that way either. I'm trying to support you guys by basically saying to keep giving it your best.

I can only imagine how tuff it actually is to road race. But when it comes to competition (and in my case this does not include competing with cars) I get exciting about going up against a bigger and badder opponent. Even if you lose as long as you made them work for the win they have to respect you.

I really think that the OP gonna accomplish this (but than again what DSMer doesnt want to believe this).

To all you road racers I tip my hat off to you for doing what I'm not able to do right now. Hopefully i'll be able to join you guys in the upcoming years!

And thanks for the backup underradar, I had my back against the wall for a little bit there.

 

[Slow old poop]

Are you guys done ripping into me ? I didnt mean to offend anyone with that post.

I may have been a little oversensitive. Greg Collier told me it would take two years to sort the car, and he was right. We broke it nearly every weekend, fixed it, and came back, weekend after weekend. Finally, I have my car sorted and ready to run competitively--all it needs now is some aero (wing and a splitter) and a sponsor who can pay for the Hoosiers, and the car is a legitimate candidate for a NASA national championship in TTA or TTS. It won the regional TTR championship in the Midwest.

I guess, after all that effort, I took your comments a little too personal. Sorry about my snotty comeback.

 

[neoviper]

No offense taken, I support you 100%! You guys really do inspire me and im looking forward to joining you guys in a couple of years. Best wishes go out to you for you upcoming season!

 

[BoostFrenzy]

Are you guys done ripping into me ?

Sorry about that man. I thought you where saying it as "why even compete when we can't win according to the rules Slow old poop has mentioned". Even though they don't apply to this cars thread (thanks for the clarification underradar92), I took it wrong. So again, sorry about that one man.

Slow old poop:
I know what you went through man. I am sorting everything out myself now too. Just not on a truly competitive level (). Right now, it's mainly the oil system that needs some straightening out. As a sidenote, what's your new track car going to be?

 

[neoviper]

As a sidenote, what's your new track car going to be?

Is this for slow old poop or me?

 

[BoostFrenzy]

Is this for slow old poop or me?

For Mr. Poop.

 

[Slow old poop]

For Mr. Poop.

I am no good at wrenching--brakes, suspension and under-car grunt work are about all I can do-- so it will be something I can drive to the track with the a/c on, run all weekend, and drive home--all without spending the entire weekend fixing the car. Possibilities are an M3 or a Corvette, but i haven't bought anything yet. I thought about an Evo, but they are too butt ugly.

I'll just run HPDE4 and have a good time. As many people have discovered, running HPDE can be a lot of fun. Competition driving is not fun. It's a business that is very frustrating and very expensive.

DSMs and 3000GTs are wonderful track cars and potential class champions, but they require way too much time, money and effort for me. I've had both 3000GT and DSM track cars, so I know. I think the turning point--where I finally realized that I wasn't getting any satisfaction out of all this effort--was the night Mike and I pulled the transmission in the mud during a driving rain storm at the track, using flashlights for illumination. That was probably the beginning of the end. I don't want to have to do anything like that again. I just want to go fast.

All my crew members are building DSMs and 3000GTs, so I wiill not be leaving the DSM scene. I'll be their crew, as long as it doesn't require anything too mechanical.

 

[mgrand34]

Yea, go get those Evo's!!!!
Marty

 

[Flash]

Marti, if you want to kick ass then chop up your 2g and build it a tube frame to put it on. Then build the entire body out of dry carbon fiber.

Example of what is being done on an RX7.

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[awdfun]

Guys, I've been a lurker on this thread for a while, and I wanna say KUDOS to some folks for their past accomplishments, and a huge motivational to those currently building cars. There is alot of info with you guys that have posted here, and I'll probably tap into that more this summer.

I'm in the 'currently building a car' category. This is my third DSM. I bought a '95 talon awd a year ago. I autocrossed last summer to figure out the best path forward, and after a timing belt snap (on a supposedly rebuilt motor) last summer, the build began.

Looking to be competitive in TTC in '09, as long as '08 goes well.
The car as I ran it last year:
17x8 SSR Integrals, 18 lbs, +38 offset.
Cheap autocross/street tires = Kumho MX 245/40s.
JIC FLT A-2's (Muellerized via previous owner), RM sways
Energy suspension busings in front
All new control arms, hubs/bearings in front
T25 or EVO3 16g, FP Race Mani, DV/DT FMIC, DSMLink, 850's, AFPR
AEM big rotors w/R-4S pads up front, stock rotors w/R-4S pads in back, RBF600 fluid.
Weight savings on obvious stuff.

I had a few issues to sort out. Mainly brake hesitation/harshness at the top of the stroke, then camber/push on turn in, and tuning that 16g to spool on a first/second gear autox course.

Just recently:
New oem brake master cylinder, new oem brake booster from 3rd gen eclipse GT
Freshly rebuilt 7 bolt 2g shortblock (used the best stuff of two motors)
New water pump, oil pump/front case, all rubber, all hoses, all gaskets
2g head/intake manny 1g throttle body all ported by me
1g cams, valves (recut), and valve springs (Instron tested to be better than 2g valve springs), 3rd rev lifters and a new valve cover w/o cracks!
RRE 'No-Name' pressure plate and CompClutch Ironman sprung 6 puck w/fidanza flywheel and FP flywheel bolt hardware
No balance shafts, oil pressure relief mod, block oil passage porting
Other weight savings under the hood.

Things I need to install when I figure out my lack of fuel pressure:
SPC upper front arms
Full rear poly bushing kit
Strut tower bars.
Other weight savings at the rear of the car.

So I have high hopes for autocross and hopefully a few HDPE events this year, more to come next year. First, I should probably break down and get a trailer, eh?

Of course seats and a roll cage will be soon on the list, but not until I can daily drive it w/o reliability issues and autocross it in SM competitively. I got 100 miles on the new motor before the fuel problems showed up. (Working on a new fuel feed line and Supra pump right now).

So keep this thread alive, I'd like to learn all I can, have all the fun I can, and keep this as (affordable) cheap as possible!

 

[Slow old poop]

The very last thing we fixed on my Eclipse before i sold it was a fuel starvation problem. We tried everything, including baffling the gas tank because it would sputter on long lefts to installing a new fuel pump, but couldn't fix it. Whilst we were putzing around with the fuel pump, we discovered that the wires were arcing (INSIDE THE FUEL TANK!!!) on those long lefts. I dunno if that's your problem, but if you've tried everything else...To this day, I don't know why we didn't go KABOOM.

 

[underradar92]

the wires were arcing (INSIDE THE FUEL TANK!!!) I don't know why we didn't go KABOOM.

The in-tank A/F ratio was to rich to ignite? All I can think of.

 

[tsiboosted]

The very last thing we fixed on my Eclipse before i sold it was a fuel starvation problem. We tried everything, including baffling the gas tank because it would sputter on long lefts to installing a new fuel pump, but couldn't fix it. Whilst we were putzing around with the fuel pump, we discovered that the wires were arcing (INSIDE THE FUEL TANK!!!) on those long lefts. I dunno if that's your problem, but if you've tried everything else...To this day, I don't know why we didn't go KABOOM.

I struggle a bit with fuel staravtion on long right hand turns wtih mine Rich. Irritates me to no end man. I have to run a full tank so it does not cut out on me on longer run sessions. I hope to fix this issue with a fuel cell in the off-season, but not sure if the budget is going to allow for one with all the engine & brake upgrades that will be going on. I thought about getting one of THESE fuel cells what do you think of that?

 

[Slow old poop]

I struggle a bit with fuel staravtion on long right hand turns wtih mine Rich. Irritates me to no end man. I have to run a full tank so it does not cut out on me on longer run sessions. I hope to fix this issue with a fuel cell in the off-season, but not sure if the budget is going to allow for one with all the engine & brake upgrades that will be going on. I thought about getting one of THESE fuel cells what do you think of that?

That's probably a drag racing tank, and may or may not pass SCCA or NASA tech. Legal fuel cells cost a fortune.

You could try what we did: Baffle the tank. This involves pulling the tank, filling it full of water to get all the fumes out, and then welding in some light sheet metal into a big "can." This is very hard to do, because you are welding light steel to heavy steel, and the arc tends to burn holes in the light metal. You really need to know what you are doing, or take it somebody who does. In my car, the internal can blocks the tank level sending unit, so you may not have a fuel gage that works any more.

The other solution is to use a surge tank. This involves adding another fuel pump: one to pump to the surge tank, and one to pump from the surge tank. Perhaps someone on the forum here has more details.

 

[tsiboosted]

That's probably a drag racing tank, and may or may not pass SCCA or NASA tech. Legal fuel cells cost a fortune.

You could try what we did: Baffle the tank. This involves pulling the tank, filling it full of water to get all the fumes out, and then welding in some light sheet metal into a big "can." This is very hard to do, because you are welding light steel to heavy steel, and the arc tends to burn holes in the light metal. You really need to know what you are doing, or take it somebody who does. In my car, the internal can blocks the tank level sending unit, so you may not have a fuel gage that works any more.

The other solution is to use a surge tank. This involves adding another fuel pump: one to pump to the surge tank, and one to pump from the surge tank. Perhaps someone on the forum here has more details.

Yeah, I thought it might be. You are right, I was looking into Fuel Safe cells and they were around the $500 and WAAAAY up range.

I have thought about the surge tank idea before and will msot likely be looking into trying that before going and dumping a lot of money into a Fuel Safe Cell. I think that may be the best thing for us right now. Thanks Rich.

 

[tsiboosted]

Well I have been poking around some more and doing some research on fuel cells and came accross this one. FUEL CELL They also sell the foam sticks to go inside to keep the fuel from sloshing all over the place. FOAM STICKS What do you think of something like that? Would also have to make sure they are "legal" in NASA/SCCA I'm sure. Maybe weld an aluminium box in the car and put this cell in it would do the trick. Not sure, would have to do some more research on the rules for that one.

 

[Slow old poop]

Well I have been poking around some more and doing some research on fuel cells and came accross this one. FUEL CELL They also sell the foam sticks to go inside to keep the fuel from sloshing all over the place. FOAM STICKS What do you think of something like that? Would also have to make sure they are "legal" in NASA/SCCA I'm sure. Maybe weld an aluminium box in the car and put this cell in it would do the trick. Not sure, would have to do some more research on the rules for that one.

I bet that fuel cell is plastic. For $99, what else could it be? Talk about ILLEGAL! Imagine taking a big hit on the track and having that sumbitch split open from the impact! Hoo boy!

The foam sticks look like a great idea, especially for the price. We had considered doing the same, but couldn't find any. Pack in four of them, keep them away from the fuel level sending unit, and they should work great. As I recall, the tank has a baffle of sorts around the fuel pump already, so it should be easy to stuff them in without interfering with the sending unit. As for legality...what foam sticks? Who, me? No one will ever know unless you tell them.

 

[tsiboosted]

I bet that fuel cell is plastic. For $99, what else could it be? Talk about ILLEGAL! Imagine taking a big hit on the track and having that sumbitch split open from the impact! Hoo boy!

The foam sticks look like a great idea, especially for the price. We had considered doing the same, but couldn't find any. Pack in four of them, keep them away from the fuel level sending unit, and they should work great. As I recall, the tank has a baffle of sorts around the fuel pump already, so it should be easy to stuff them in without interfering with the sending unit. As for legality...what foam sticks? Who, me? No one will ever know unless you tell them.

Yeah I understand being plastic, but if it was in an approved conatiner for it and bolted to the car, it would not move just as a "real" fuel cell you know? Was just a thought. Yeah those Foam Sticks look like a good prodcut and a cheap solution for some issues in your fuel tank.

 

[awdfun]

Hey Slow, were the terminals arcing over the pump body, or the wires touching and then arcing? Just wondering if I should throw some spare insulation on the wires while I have it apart, or what did you do to fix it?

I'd assume as underradar92 said, not enough oxygen in the tank to start ignition. Pretty freaky though. Thanks for the info!

My fuel problem is the filter setup I installed isn't flowing enough fuel at 25+ psi of boost. Or after 10 miles. The fitler element is much too small, and the filter element housing is too restrictive. So I'm upgrading from the Swagelok setup (8TF filter w/15 micron element) to a 5x2" Aeromotive 10 micron with 6AN lines from the hard feed line. Hopefully that will get me back on the road to finish the motor break-in!

 

[Slow old poop]

Hey Slow, were the terminals arcing over the pump body, or the wires touching and then arcing? Just wondering if I should throw some spare insulation on the wires while I have it apart, or what did you do to fix it?
!

Under hard cornering in long lefts, the wires from the fuel pump were touching the tank and arcing. We rewired to eliminate the naked wire and tie-wrapped the wires out of the way. We didnt find the problem until it got so bad it became a dead short and deprived the pump of power. I even ordered a new Walbro, thinking the pump was bad. So, my buyer got a brand new Walbro.

Symptoms felt just like fuel starvation: sputtering in the middle of a turn. It kept getting worse and worse--I guess because the wires got looser and looser and the insulation got eaten away by the constant rubbing. Just make sure it can't happen to you by securing the wires properly.

Man, I could write a book: Two Years With Mitsubishi Wiring...A Horror Story

 

[neoviper]

Not to change the subject but does anyone know the statis of the 2g time attack car?

 

[HBM4G63]

Any updates or pictures? I am looking to do the same thing in building a 2g time attack car.