Time attack alignment. 2G

[tsirider13]

Hey guys,
So finally after a very nasty winter here in toronto i finally got my car together and ready for the track.
I have only been to three lap days and only one time attack event at a local track(shanonville).

And to tell you the truth i was more worry about going fast and did not pay attention to my aligment, I was only running illuminas with sport lines and nothing to make the suspension adjustable, after some reading and months of putting parts together i am ready to give that track another try and actually be fast.

The suspansion parts that i came up with are, JIC's , SPC control arms, bigger sway bars, bolt and washers for the rear camber and strut bars for the rear and back, 17X8 rpf1's and falkens rt615.

I am actually looking for feed back in what specs should i be loking at, i will be going to Fourstar motorsports to get the car corner weight and for them to do the aligment on may 21st.

I was reading this guideline, but i dont know if it is mostly aplicable for autocross or i can use those specs for road racing?
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/handling-tech/169559-autocrossing-alignment-2g.html

It is a daily driver, But like someone here said before tire wear is overated...well i do want them to last a little while.

I will apriciatte the feed back,
Thanks guys,

-Manuel

 

[324vr4]

I know once I got my front camber switched to -2 degrees it handles like never before...toe's into corners with a lot of agility...that's all I can offer anyways...as long as you get your front camber adjusted to -2 degrees you'll be happy with your setup...

 

[tsirider13]

Thanks buddy,
Also i was reading that there was problem with SPC controll arms rubbing, where do they rub?
I tried to find a bit more about but i couldnt find something especific, anyone using this controll arms?

Thanks,

-Manuel

 

[everbruin]

here's what i run on street/autox/track, which handles and wears well enough:
Front camber -3 or so (via custom shortened upper arms & ingalls 35750)
1/8" toe out
Rear toe: 0
camber -1.3 which i haven't played around with

 

[everbruin]

there was an spc control arm issue w/ the balljoint being too tall and banging on the fender top. That's why i opted to buy cheap used arms and got a welder to shorten them like in vfaq.

 

[asian312]

there was an spc control arm issue w/ the balljoint being too tall and banging on the fender top.

+1...There are three points where the SPC can touch. There is a point on the front and back of the arms and the top of the ball joint where the nut is. Now properly setup, you can use them and gain from the extra caster and camber they offer. Ride height and bump stops will dictate whether or not you are capable of running them.

As for alignment specs, a lot will depend on the type of tire and suspension. For you current setup -1.5 in the front and somewhere near -.5 in the rear should be a good starting point. This will help the car bring the rear end around.

Before going out and spending a ton of money on parts, use that dough and get more seat time (especially with instructors). There's a ton to learn and a lot left on the table with driver mods. Learning with 'softer' setup and less power will help teach car control, smoothness, and retaining momentum.

When you get more advanced you'll start piecing the puzzle together forming your own style. Where to drive smooth, where you need a hard brake and turn in to unsettle the rear and let it do some of the turning for you, or how to exploit the AWD system. Once you've got that under you're belt, dialing in a suspension will be much easier as you have a 'feel' that you are trying to attain.

Then camber becomes a factor of tire pressures and temps. Oh and if you do go JICs, go Muellerized. My current setup is identical to what you listed in your first post, minus the strut bars and I'm running 255/40/17 R888s.

 

[underradar92]

A rule of thumb posted sometime ago by jtoby (remember him?), recommended running 2/3 of the front negative camber number out back, ex: F) -3*, R) -2* as a start point. How much camber you feel you can use/live with depends on tires, amount of street driving, etc.

As far as toe on a track car goes, go with near factory specs, as the autocross technique of running toe out will make the car less stable at speed, both in a straight line and while turning.

 

[tsirider13]

O.k so i quickly went and checked the RRE website about muellerlizing the JIC's, So Asian 312 what ecxacly does the set up that RRE does to your coilovers?
I have the nasty spring rates from factory that like the RRE site says it not good enough,
But i am in toronto canada, so to ship the coilover there and back plus whatever the charge is for the settings, would be alot so i guess i will have to live with them for a while.

Also Asian 312, whats the hight that your car set for?
I just went quick to your gallery and looks pretty high, is that the same hight you use for track days?

This are the specs i have come up after all this reading,
Front camber -2
Rear camber-1
Toe front-1/8
Toe back-0
Caster +5

I am trying to figure out ride hight set up, since the car would be corner weight i should have it ready.

Thanks for the feed back guys.

-Manuel

 

[Black95TSIawd]

I don't think you can adjust caster on 2g's.

 

[tsirider13]

I don't think you can adjust caster on 2g's.

The SPc control arms are Caster adjustable.

 

[everbruin]

for street ride height on a med stiff 600/400 lb setup, 3 fingers betw front fender and tire is a decent starting point. Rear is normally a bit more.

 

[asian312]

O.k so i quickly went and checked the RRE website about muellerlizing the JIC's, So Asian 312 what ecxacly does the set up that RRE does to your coilovers?
I have the nasty spring rates from factory that like the RRE site says it not good enough,
But i am in toronto canada, so to ship the coilover there and back plus whatever the charge is for the settings, would be alot so i guess i will have to live with them for a while.

Also Asian 312, whats the hight that your car set for?
I just went quick to your gallery and looks pretty high, is that the same hight you use for track days?

This are the specs i have come up after all this reading,
Front camber -2
Rear camber-1
Toe front-1/8
Toe back-0
Caster +5

I am trying to figure out ride hight set up, since the car would be corner weight i should have it ready.

Thanks for the feed back guys.

-Manuel

Mueller is the one who sets up the JICs for RRE and no two coilovers are alike. There's a pretty involved application that is part of the process to tailor the JICs to your specific needs.

The pics in my gallery are of the Konis/H&R. Click here for the lastest: Picasa Web Albums - asian312 - Suspension an...

Unfortunately I can't divulge any specifics on the setup. One because I don't know anything in regards to spring rates or valving. When I sought after a new suspension setup, I figured I could spend a lot of money doing it myself, or save a few pennies and let someone with as accredited a name as Mueller do the setup. They specialize in DSMs and EVOs after all. *Funny story...I called originally with questions regarding their upper mounts*

The second reason is out of respect for John and his shop. Their preliminary setup was almost spot on and they have been vital to dialing these in. I live in Texas so this is all being done little at a time as I make recommended changes and provide data back to them. I view their alignment specs (yes they are provided with the setup) as proprietary information and respect that knowledge as that is their livelihood.

See here for review: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/road-course-autocross/292955-new-setup.html