The Sexy Grandma 15 day build

[Slippi84]

I couldnt have put it any better myself

The power was really no good at all, 428. Were stumped . Now were at the point of trial and error really. I have a JM Fab Drag Intake Manifold on order, so we'll be replacing the Magnus Street manifold with the JMFab Manifold and see if that helps.

Another little side note, the TQ graphs were dead nuts with eachother at 28psi and 35psi???

I was about to say the magnus is more for the 500-600whp guy who wants top end not the 700+ guy who wants to break trends 28-35psi and same trq is def no bueno Even with conservative dyno that thing should be high 500whp to 600whp somethings is def off. What are you taking the car up to rpm wise. You might just have to spin her out further.

 

[fst91dsm]

8600 RPM for now. But if TQ keeps falling like it does in most of our cars mine included, to rev it further is pointless. The car is dropping 90 lb ft between 6200 and 8600rpm but it is a steady drop. Ill get some dyno sheets posted up with all the info by the end of the day. Its also making 28psi by 5800 rpm? Hows that happening?

 

[Slippi84]

8600 RPM for now. But if TQ keeps falling like it does in most of our cars mine included, to rev it further is pointless. The car is dropping 90 lb ft between 6200 and 8600rpm but it is a steady drop. Ill get some dyno sheets posted up with all the info by the end of the day. Its also making 28psi by 5800 rpm? Hows that happening?

Shorter piping and no fmic to slow things down. Part of the reason I want to go water to air. What cams do you have it actually sounds like your runnig a 272 type cam by your powerband situation faster spool and maxing out by like 6800 def has 272 written all over it with a gt42r with magnus setup.

 

[Slippi84]

Profile says 280s : ( sounds like you need to start from scratch with the tune cause something isn't right.

 

[fst91dsm]

They are my old HKS272s from last year, I have BC280's but when the car was on the Dyno befor they were in and there was no difference in power. Everything was the same????

 

[fst91dsm]

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[dnhieu]

The right way to maximize a tune is not just to crank the boost up to compensate for either a bad tune or a ineffective part. The right way is to max out a given lower psi tune then tune it up and just make fine tune changes. Like he should be at or about 550whp atleast at 28psi once he gets there he can crank it up fine tune it make the right power then crank it up and hit his ultimate goal. Like he said walk before you run. That's why you see so many guys blowing up on the dyno trying to get more power with the boost controller instead of the laptop.

i figured the tune would be around where it needs to be given the car we are talking about. if your tune isnt right then why are you still not happy with the numbers? obviously the numbers will go up once the tune is where it needs to be...

 

[fst91dsm]

I am 100% sure the tune is not the problem, there is an issue somewhere else and we just havnt found it yet. Believe me, this aint our first rodeo.

 

[dnhieu]

you dont think its something dumb like spark blow out? i know we have good ignition systems but obviously not going to work with the power your wanting to make. i just say that because i noticed that it appears your on a stock ignition system...

 

[fst91dsm]

No ignition problems or spark blow out either

 

[Black_Bullet]

Well I guess just try to do the process of elimination and analyze all the variables.
I know your definitly not a newbie and probably know much more than I do, but my attempt to help=

- confirm compression is good.
- Make sure the AFR on the WBO2 is ideal
- Check plugs for little signs of anything
- Boost leak test the entire system
- make sure theres no exhaust leak though youd likely know it
- Make sure the clutch isnt slipping, or somethign in the drivetrain robbing power abnormally
- Go over all the pipeing from intake to exhaust and rethink your setup, bottle necks in mind.
- Better yet how much lbs/min of air are you flowing according to AEM

If everything above checks off, and you are getting GOOD AFR's, compression, and base timing is good along with ign timing, and theres no Boost leaks, and your AEM shows good lbs/min of air. If your power isnt really increasing with boost like it should be and your stuck in the 400something HP land, then it actually "sounds like its an air flow problem, especially being that torque is dropping so bad... But Im pretty sure youd know if something wasnt flowing for shit.

Then the next thing to assume is there is something internally wrong with the head/motor, or possible mis match of parts in the setup. Trying the bigger cams and swapping to a different intake manifold other than that magnus are probably worth a shot, and will likely at least give you some decent gains.Im just picking at straws now...
What about cam gear tuning also? Maybe you can display a log of your ign timing etc for us and someone is bound to know something... As long as there aint any major bottle necks, internal issues, there is only so many things that it can be, basically with making power its more air, more fuel, good spark, good timing equals more power, and your setup should have so much still left in it...

 

[fst91dsm]

Well I guess just try to do the process of elimination and analyze all the variables.
I know your definitly not a newbie and probably know much more than I do, but my attempt to help=

- confirm compression is good.
- Make sure the AFR on the WBO2 is ideal
- Check plugs for little signs of anything
- Boost leak test the entire system
- make sure theres no exhaust leak though youd likely know it
- Make sure the clutch isnt slipping, or somethign in the drivetrain robbing power abnormally
- Go over all the pipeing from intake to exhaust and rethink your setup, bottle necks in mind.
- Better yet how much lbs/min of air are you flowing according to AEM

If everything above checks off, and you are getting GOOD AFR's, compression, and base timing is good along with ign timing, and theres no Boost leaks, and your AEM shows good lbs/min of air. If your power isnt really increasing with boost like it should be and your stuck in the 400something HP land, then it actually "sounds like its an air flow problem, especially being that torque is dropping so bad... But Im pretty sure youd know if something wasnt flowing for shit.

Then the next thing to assume is there is something internally wrong with the head/motor, or possible mis match of parts in the setup. Trying the bigger cams and swapping to a different intake manifold other than that magnus are probably worth a shot, and will likely at least give you some decent gains.Im just picking at straws now...
What about cam gear tuning also? Maybe you can display a log of your ign timing etc for us and someone is bound to know something... As long as there aint any major bottle necks, internal issues, there is only so many things that it can be, basically with making power its more air, more fuel, good spark, good timing equals more power, and your setup should have so much still left in it...

Reading over the post I was like, yup did that and that, did that too. Trust me its weird . Were going to hang her up until my JM Fab manifold gets here so we can do back to back pulls. There is a possibility that well swap the cams back to the 280's that were in there with the SBR head so we'll see. I think the car needs to collect its thoughts and get a big handfull of act right, or we do, or something... With the TQ drop situation, if you look at some of the other dyno sheets on the site youll be shocked with just how much these cars drop TQ. So looking at it that way the 90lb ft really isnt that bad compared to others ive seen. Its just a bunch of bull... shit!

 

[Black_Bullet]

I know of a few cars that are overbuilt, or heavily modded with high expectations like yours and that ended up with frustration or that didnt really perform or there was always some headache from rushing the project along too fast. Especially being every car is different and will react a different way, you cant always go by general consensus of what worked for the other guy. When a box load of parts are thrown at the car you cant slowly work your way up part by part... Not saying this is the case with you because I dont know... I mean, your car is extremely awesome and better than what majority of us could every hope for even if you didnt make good numbers.

If the different cams and jmfab doesnt do the trick then, what if you have a buddy with dsmlink, ask to borrow his link and tune the car on somethign simple, and try simpler approaches, what if you get good results that way? Maybe not realistic but im not being irrational either. You already stated your AEM was having issues earlier.
It might not be what you want to hear, but sometimes you have to back track, what has changed since you were making enough power to trap 141 and go 10secs...

I know the dyno is a great way of tuning and taking measurements, but Keep in mind, is your end goal for the car to be a dyno queen or to actually be out there running xx.xx times... Id hope the later.

 

[marcmsj]

As someone as has mentioned, you might just be below that turbo's efficiency range. Have you looked at a compressor map? Also, what kind of timing are you seeing?

 

[fst91dsm]

I know of a few cars that are overbuilt, or heavily modded with high expectations like yours and that ended up with frustration or that didnt really perform or there was always some headache from rushing the project along too fast. Especially being every car is different and will react a different way, you cant always go by general consensus of what worked for the other guy. When a box load of parts are thrown at the car you cant slowly work your way up part by part... Not saying this is the case with you because I dont know... I mean,but what if you have a buddy with dsmlink, ask to borrow his link and tune the car on somethign simple, and try simpler approaches, what if you get good results that way? Maybe not realistic but im not being irrational either. You already stated your AEM was having issues earlier.
It might not be what you want to hear, but sometimes you have to back track...

I know the dyno is a great way of tuning and taking measurements, but Keep in mind, is your end goal for the car to be a dyno queen or to actually be out there running xx.xx times... Id hope the later.

First off, as you can see, this has not been a car that has been just, slapped together. Second, a box load of parts just thrown on isnt exactly what I would call this build. Third, yes sometimes the simple way is better but most of the hard stuff is already taken away, the car is quite simple when you really think about it. Fourth, the AEM issue has been resolved, it was a faulty box and the problem had been corrected. I think at this point back tracking is an option and go back to the basics of the car and see if we can find some sort of an error somewhere. As far as the end goal goes, yes it will be a track car, but without good numbers on the dyno we know the car wont go very fast. Im not into going 11's in the car. We just need to figgure it out.

 

[fst91dsm]

As someone as has mentioned, you might just be below that turbo's efficiency range. Have you looked at a compressor map? Also, what kind of timing are you seeing?

Even if it is below the turbos efficiency range that still dosnt explain why the dyno graphs look exactly the same at 28psi as 35psi??? For timing, it was 15 degrees of ignition advance and was increasing with rpm from 5500-9000rpm reaching 17.5 degrees by 9000. This was at 30psi. We did give it more timing but with very minimal gains.

 

[tonster]

Even if it is below the turbos efficiency range that still dosnt explain why the dyno graphs look exactly the same at 28psi as 35psi??? For timing, it was 15 degrees of ignition advance and was increasing with rpm from 5500-9000rpm reaching 17.5 degrees by 9000. This was at 30psi. We did give it more timing but with very minimal gains.

Have you done a leak down? With a torque curve being the same at 28 and 35psi something tells me you have cylinder pressure escaping.

 

[fst91dsm]

Have you done a leak down? With a torque curve being the same at 28 and 35psi something tells me you have cylinder pressure escaping.

Cylinder compression was fine so the leak down test would be pointless.

You know what it is, its my Hondata heatshield intake manifold gasket, stupid Honda parts,

 

[dnhieu]

Cylinder compression was fine so the leak down test would be pointless.

You know what it is, its my Hondata heatshield intake manifold gasket, stupid Honda parts,

let us know when you find out because im very curious. hopefully the cams and intake manifold will do the trick for you. i would hate for you to spend all that money to see it go to waste!

also how many lbs are you flowing at 30psi???????

 

[Black_Bullet]

Cylinder compression was fine so the leak down test would be pointless.

You know what it is, its my Hondata heatshield intake manifold gasket, stupid Honda parts,

Maybe your vtec isnt working???

 

[fst91dsm]

let us know when you find out because im very curious. hopefully the cams and intake manifold will do the trick for you. i would hate for you to spend all that money to see it go to waste!

also how many lbs are you flowing at 30psi???????

Ill check the lb per min for you, no worries

 

[dnhieu]

Ill check the lb per min for you, no worries

thanks. Im curious on how much the 42r flows on these cars...

 

[Slippi84]

thanks. Im curious on how much the 42r flows on these cars...

Both jakes were in the low 9's and shep is in the 7's nuff said

 

[yellowrs]

Cylinder compression was fine so the leak down test would be pointless.

That is not true. A leak down can tell you alot more

 

[Black_Bullet]

Both jakes were in the low 9's and shep is in the 7's nuff said

Im pretty sure Shep was running a bigger turbo.