the reason an automatic trany is slower that a manual?

[bnpimpn]

just wondering what is the reason that our auto's are almost a full second slower than the M/T guys? and what sort of things can we do to make up for it? i've heard things like "our auto's dont loose boost between gears" and "nobody shifts faster than a computer" so whats the deal?

 

[Royalty]

well to answer ur last question, yes an auto tranny shits faster because its done by the computer. BUT you have to realize that your car is going to play it safe all the time you can hammer the pedal and it will rev up high. but in the end it s goign to shift when it feels like it.

Auto tranny also have a 70lb monsterinside of them called a torque converter. WHochcn abe replaced by a high stall tq converter...but thats another story.

 

[MitzMadness]

atx's specially on cars producing as much power as dsm's will have a slipping clutch(You'll notice in first gear when you punch it it revs up like crazy before it shift, thats because they clutch can engage meaning you arent giving the car anymore power), a shift kit like the translab kit does wonders about this problem.

 

[Eclipsei95cl]

just wondering what is the reason that our auto's are almost a full second slower than the M/T guys? and what sort of things can we do to make up for it? i've heard things like "our auto's dont loose boost between gears" and "nobody shifts faster than a computer" so whats the deal?

In a manual you can munipulate the gears better and have better control.

In an auto the computer shifts. The stock trans is based on comfort and not much about prerformance so it is kinda watered down. But there are a lot of mods for our trannys now that will address these problems and allow us to change that automatic into a performance monster

 

[Defiant]

A/Ts have smaller turbos. There's also about a 5% or so loss in slippage of the fluid in the torque convertor.

 

[bnpimpn]

A/Ts have smaller turbos. There's also about a 5% or so loss in slippage of the fluid in the torque convertor.

isnt that only in 1st gens? my pic may have confused you....its my other ride.
what are some good places to look at when purchasing shift kits and torque convertors? any other options for us out there? if you have any links Please post em up or PM me with them. when you guys modified your auto's would you start with getting all the trany stuff first then move onto the regular modification steps....or would you do it the other way around?

 

[Eclipsei95cl]

http://www.importperformancetrans.com/mitsubishiauto.shtml

I would get the Tranny stuff done first. Seeing how the Stock trans is our weakest link.

 

[igs]

The main reason is slower shift speed. Stock autos shift slower than you can a manual.

 

[98TalonTSi]

The main reason is slower shift speed. Stock autos shift slower than you can a manual.

You can't be serious with this one....are you trying to take away one of the few advantages we have over 5 spds?

 

[DSMeclipse4G63]

The main reason is slower shift speed. Stock autos shift slower than you can a manual.

your kidding me right???

to answer the original thread starters question, a/ts are heavier then m/ts. If you ever replace the tranny in a similar model of car like I have MANY times. Most 4 banger m/ts can be taken out with one-two people by hand, a/ts of similar models need a jack being as thought they are several times heavier. That and the power loss defiant said, being as though we only have a hydraulic conection to the wheels as opposed to physical with m/t's.

But for the most part the reason why a/t's are a full second slower is lack of driving ability(not being used to a a/t turbo) and the fact that the tranny is worn out over the years.

 

[bnpimpn]

for the most part the reason why a/t's are a full second slower is lack of driving ability(not being used to a a/t turbo) and the fact that the tranny is worn out over the years.

lack of driving ablility? how can you really go wrong with an auto? what are some tips to make me a better auto driver?


what sort of benifit would a shift kit gimme? what sort of benifit will a torque convertor gimme...would i feel a difference in either case?

thanks for the reply's im new to the auto world.

 

[DSMeclipse4G63]

lack of driving ablility? how can you really go wrong with an auto? what are some tips to make me a better auto driver?


what sort of benifit would a shift kit gimme? what sort of benifit will a torque convertor gimme...would i feel a difference in either case?

thanks for the reply's im new to the auto world.

stalling the car or brake torqing the car out of its effeiciency causing over heating. manually shifting from 1-2-d waiting too long to upshift. Shift kits reduce shift time and temperature. converters help stall higher allowing better launches and over tranny performance. They say the torque converter is the "best bang for your buck" mod

 

[Red95DSM]

AT's are more efficient at and just after launch because the TC multiplies torque through the stator, providing more input shaft torque. Once the input shaft starts rotating and torque multiplication falls, it becomes more inefficient. Also in an AT, there a multiple multi-plate clutch packs, and some have bands, that add considerable drag loss to the transmission compared to synchros in the manual.

 

[bnpimpn]

so this might sound dumb but, are the torque convertor, and shift kit potentially harmful mods that may cause trany problems down the road?

 

[definitiveno]

it's not weight, its not shift speed, and no not drive train loss ( accumulated though that makes alot of diversity to work through ) it's the mechanical advantage of shorter gearing. Have you ever tried to race a bmx bike on a beach cruiser? Yeah, it's kind of like that, you have to practically stand on the peddles just to get moving from a stop......


All that other stuff can be addressed with after market and your standard carbon fiber hood/strip interior and AC removal.


I have a completely bone stock car at the moment, all the way down to the air filter. I get to pick up my car next thurday however from the tranny shop where it just got rebuilt. I added a IPT 9.5 inch billet torque converter, translab valve body kit ( a few other IPT goodies) and a complete rebuild with end clutches. I think it would be interesting to see what kind of times my car can pull off with nothing but tranny mods.


Stay tuned for results...

 

[BUCK]

This Principle is called Mechanical Advantage...

 

[bnpimpn]

where did you get the parts from? what was your total cost?


does adding these mods to the trany decrease its life span?

 

[definitiveno]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104912&highlight=extending+life


I bought my parts from the guy who wrote that article.

 

[ryu]

i wish we could change gears like chevy and ford
that would be so awesome

 

[93AWDTalon1]

many reasons a auto is slower.
1. drivetrain loss
2. the stock stall speed kills the off the line power of a turbo 2.0L
3. gearing the final drive gearing in a auto is less and the gearing in the trans is a lot less
4. the ratios in the trans isn't close like a manual so it won't do as good of job keeping the engine in it's powerband

 

[98TalonTSi]

I'm going to make a very simple analogy....getting away from all the "techni-babble"...

Go for a run on the beach along the water (MT)
Now go for a run on the beach in the water (AT)
Which time will be faster and why.... The idea is that our TC is drowned in fluid, so what is faster and more efficient?

 

[definitiveno]

I'm going to make a very simple analogy....getting away from all the "techni-babble"...

Go for a run on the beach along the water (MT)
Now go for a run on the beach in the water (AT)
Which time will be faster and why.... The idea is that our TC is drowned in fluid, so what is faster and more efficient?

a 2g with the TC locker engauged

 

[transdude]

With a few modifications like the proper torque converter and valve body modifications, the playing field between automatics and manuals gets leveled.

The added advantage is that the auto trans is far less likely to cause you problems when it is properly built and modified.

-John

 

[bnpimpn]

With a few modifications like the proper torque converter and valve body modifications, the playing field between automatics and manuals gets leveled.

The added advantage is that the auto trans is far less likely to cause you problems when it is properly built and modified.

-John

what parts do you recomend for making power & having reliablity?....and what sites can i order from that ship to canada?

 

[staticbrainwash]

nothing in the tranny will increase power.

it will shorten shifts, and prevent clutch slipping.

just making everything more solid will help times.

go to ITP for an auto tranny. if anything. . . a new valve body/end clutches and a good fluid change will extend the life of you tranny a bit. notice i said EXTEND.

good luck. . . and i'd go for tranny mods first. or do them a little at a time.

end clutches and shift kit. then go filter/intake and exhaust.