Tensioner "special tool" stuck in engine

[soldave]

This damn rebuild is one step forward and then a giant leap back coupled with a kick to the groin. Taking the timing belt off before and you might have read that the timing belt tensioner "special tool" I'd made was feeling a little tight to unscrew, so I elected to wait until the head came off when I could get some more leverage on it. So I did that tonight, cranked it around a few turns and low & behold the threaded rod snapped. I now have about 1/2" coming out of the inner timing belt cover, and on the other side I have about 1" still all the way through.

Question is what do I do now? I tried double-nutting it on the timing belt cover side but it was just pulling the nut off the rod (think the threads there are warped. Only thing I could possibly think of would be to cut into the timing belt cover and actually try and screw it all the way through the other side (would be very tough as tensioner side I'd have to bend the rod and there's not much space to play with.

Any other ideas before I contemplate drinking myself into a stupor?

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[Jeff99GS]

That's why you gotta use the REAL tool. Its made of Hardened steel. This threaded rod shit is like BUTTER.

Go buy a NICE Long NEW sharp 7mm or 8mm drill bit and you'll be through that crap in 60 seconds!
Just make sure not to get shavings in the engine.

I like to drill the hole a little small first and then the rest of the rod will fall out usually. If it falls out, Then you can re-use the threads! Just run an 8mm x 1.25 tap through the threads to clean them up.

 

[lacroixdp]

Weld the bottom portion of the nut onto the rod and it should hold well enough to back out. Spray the hell out of that bolt with some PB Blaster afterward, before you try to back it out anymore.

 

[soldave]

Zex4g63 - you said "Remove the offending pieces from the engine and cut it off flush, drill it out, or get another." Does that mean you don't actually need a tensioning tool like that to remove/install the timing belt if you can just cut it flush and leave a bit of it still in there? Just curious and will probably drill it out anyway.

 

[steve]

Does that mean you don't actually need a tensioning tool like that to remove/install the timing belt?

No you don't need it. It's only for compressing the auto tensioner while it's attached to the car. If you have a new one and wait to release the pin until your sure the belt is on correctly and preloaded correctly with the tensioner pulley then you wouldn't need to re-compress it on the car.

 

[HIGHPSI4]

The reason that one is in such a bind is because it is bent (no new info there). Take a cut off wheel and cut as much as possible off the inner end. That should allow the rod to be straightened and should come right out. Like the wise man stated, install the belt, preload the tensioner and the tensioner arm should be on the tensioner piston.

 

[soldave]

No you don't need it. It's only for compressing the auto tensioner while it's attached to the car. If you have a new one and wait to release the pin until your sure the belt is on correctly and preloaded correctly with the tensioner pulley then you wouldn't need to re-compress it on the car.

Well I don't have a new tensioner but will compress the one I have with a vice and put something in there to hold it back. The timing belt tension thing still confuses me a little; I need to have a good look at it all on the extra engine I've got at my friend's place.

The reason that one is in such a bind is because it is bent (no new info there). Take a cut off wheel and cut as much as possible off the inner end. That should allow the rod to be straightened and should come right out. Like the wise man stated, install the belt, preload the tensioner and the tensioner arm should be on the tensioner piston.

Yeah, I'll do that in the next few days I think. Tomorrow if it's not raining (we've just hit rainy season in japan... all I need now is humidity and an open iron engine block and cylinder walls!) I'll see if I can work out how to get this mounting off.

 

[Zex4g63]

Zex4g63 - you said "Remove the offending pieces from the engine and cut it off flush, drill it out, or get another." Does that mean you don't actually need a tensioning tool like that to remove/install the timing belt if you can just cut it flush and leave a bit of it still in there? Just curious and will probably drill it out anyway.

I don't know how my post got deleted but no you don't need it as stated. Use a vise to compress it and a small allen wrench to hold it. Set the pulley and release the tensioner you'll be fine.

 

[turboglenn]

For now take what ever you can and just cut it flush on each side of the threaded area it's stuck in... then you should be able to drill it out with no issues... Or just cut it and squirt a little lock tite on it ( the green "penetrating" one) and leave it there until the next motor pull if you cna't get a drill to it.

I've never used one because i've always had a hybrid 1g in a 2g car setup and it doesn't allow the tool to even work. As for the special tool for setting the eccentric tensioner pulley, the best thing i've found is a set of snap ring pliers with the 90* tangs put on them, rotate it to get the proper tension ( i lerned from setting and resetting it), then tighten, pull the "grenade pin" and go. I hear a lot of people checking the installed height with the drill bit method but to tell you the truth on new belts ( which i alwasy put a new one in when in there) I"ll just set the tensioner to where i can stick the pin right back in, then after a few miles and hours of use the T-belt "snugs in" and the tensioner ends up in just about as close as you can get it by setting it manually with measuring.

Good luck with it Dave, I know you can handle this!

 

[steve]

Well I don't have a new tensioner but will compress the one I have with a vice and put something in there to hold it back. The timing belt tension thing still confuses me a little; I need to have a good look at it all on the extra engine I've got at my friend's place.

I always replace the auto-tensioner with the belt. It may not be worn out but there's no way to gauge it's life and failure can lead to valves and pistons trying to occupy the same space at the same time. I consider it cheap insurance.

Just remember to compress it slowly in the vice. Line the hole in the rod up with the body before you start compressing it so you'll be able to get the retaining pin in. Too quickly and you can damage it.

The tensioner pulley rotates around it's eccentric bolt (in different directions depending on model). With the auto-tensioner pinned you rotate the pulley into the belt to take up the slack and then apply force to the belt putting it under tension. As you do the auto-tensioner rod will be pressed on by the tensioner arm and when you reach the correct belt preload will equal the internal pressure on the auto-tensioner rod causing the retaining pin to free up.

So when you can move the retaining pin easily the tensioner assembly is applying the correct load to the timing belt. Leave the pin in so you don't have to recompress the auto-tensioner if the loading changes as you distribute the belt tension by turning the crank over until the timing marks all line up again.

After rotating the crank you wait 15 mins for the belt to rest and if the retaining pin is still moving freely you have it set right and can pull the pin and button up the engine.

If the retaining pin is not free then you get to readjust the tensioner pulley and go through the turning and waiting process again until you get it right.

If you pulled the pin early like the manual and VFAQ tell you, then you need to tool to recompress the auto-tensioner rod so you can put the pin back in to try again. (I have recompressed the auto-tensioner via turning the tensioner pulley but it you slip it all comes undone.

 

[soldave]

A thought on this one, as it looks like it might be a pain to remove the whole bracket from the car. I can probably get an angle on it with a drill bit or something. Do you think a drill saw bit would be able to cut through this cheap-ass metal? If so I reckon I could probably cut the rod both sides of the bracket and I'll be in business.

 

[soldave]

BINGO! Took the afternoon off work and took more bits off my car. Had to beat on the bracket a bit like it was my wife(!) but eventually got the things off. Yeah, this is what happens when you don't use the right tools for the job, folks:

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Will be cutting into it on Saturday and might even be mobile this weekend.

 

[steve]

You sure you can't just back it out now that it's off?