Tensioner Pulley...

[91TSiChick]

I am sure this has been said but there are a billion threads and none really say exactly but I am needing to replace my auto tensioner and the idler pulley. I do not have the compression tool but I have a brand new tensioner with the pin in it already.

On the tensioner pulley is there a way to get it set correctly without the pulley tool? I really need this done soon so if there is a way that would be great.

Thanks in advance

 

[prplhz96]

Everything you need to know is found in here http://vfaq.com/index-main.html

 

[91TSiChick]

Already know that site and already read through most every article there. It showes how to do it using the actual tool.

I am asking if anybody has been able to tighten the tensioner pulley without the tool by using another method.

 

[prplhz96]

Already know that site and already read through most every article there. It showes how to do it using the actual tool.

I am asking if anybody has been able to tighten the tensioner pulley without the tool by using another method.

The actual tool that you are referring too is just 8X1.25 threaded rod/or long bolt. This is the only thing that you can use since the factory tool was discontinued.

 

[91TSiChick]

No, the tool for the tensioner pulley.

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The tool to tighten up the pulley. Not the auto tensioner itself.

 

[prplhz96]

just re read the vfaq again.....


To replace the tool for setting the torque - use your fingers ;-)

The fast way to do this:

Grab a drill bit around .15" - go buy one exactly that size if possible (we used a .152" we had handy), and no smaller than .15"
Put that drill bit between the top of the tensioner and the tensioner arm (See Fig 21 above). Compress the tensioner using the battery bolt until it lightly touches the drill bit (can still slide it in and out, but is not rattling loose)
Grab the tensioner pulley, rotate it up until the belt is getting taut, then pull up on it lightly (remember, the torque on this is only 2-3 ft-lbs). You can also use a 90 degree circlip pliers to rotate the pulley using the holes for the real tool (if you don't know what 90 degree circlip pliers are, then don't worry about it and use your fingers). Then torque the pulley down
Loosen the battery bolt several turns, but don't remove it. Check the tensioner gap, it should be barely over the drill bit size, if not right on it still. Rotate the engine six times, let sit for about 15min, check the tensioner gap again to make sure it is within spec (.15-.18")

 

[VanIsleDSM]

there are 2 tools,

one of them is to compress the old tensioner, but you don't need it as you can just take it off and put your new one on.. only thing is that because you don't have the OTHER special tool to get the tension perfect first time, you may need to reset it, in which case if you don't have the threaded rod to compress it you'll need to take it off, put it in a vice, put the pin back in, and try again.. the rod just makes it easier because you can just re-compress the tensioner on the car..

Vfaq does have a writeup about the other tool.. instead of using it you just torque the pully with your hand and set it.. you turn the crank 6 times by hand and let it sit for 15min.. if you can put the pin back in the tensioner it's set correctly.. if not then do it all again putting less/more pressure on the pully with your hand when you tighten it down until after it's been turned and sat the pin slides in and out with no restriction.

So yeah.. you don't need either of them.. but the rod is pretty handy.. and easy, you can buy some M8x1.25 threaded rod pretty much anywhere, then just lock 2 bolts together on one end of it and there ya go..

edit: I got beat typing this.. but pin method is more exact that the drill bit in my opinion.. and you don't need a drill bit.

 

[91TSiChick]

Oh ok,

Thats what I honestly thought but I read a few threads where people said you could not do the job without the tensioner pulley tool.

Yeah I was going to go by the pin method. I read that if the pin and be freely moved around then it is set correctly or close enough.

Lastly on the timing marks you have to line up there is the one on the cam gears, oil pump sprocket and crankshaft

Thanks

 

[synthetek]

You have to line up the marks on the cam gears, oil pump sprocket, crankshaft sprocket, and the balance shaft sprocket (unless you removed the balance shaft)

 

[91TSiChick]

Oh ok,

Well I looked at my current tensioner pulley and the 2 small holes are located below the bolt vs. up top.

I thought I read where they should be located towards the top side of the bolt.

 

[steve]

There is a difference, I'm not sure if it's 1G vs 2G or 6 bolt vs 7 bolt but a 6bolt 1G tensioner pulley should have the two holes above the bolt like in the 1G VFAQ pictures.

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When I did my first belt I made a tool to rotate the tensioner pulley. Anything you can use to give you leverage will work but I can't imagine anyone just using their fingers and getting the tension correct. The tool I made was only about 5 inches long and you really have to apply some force to set the right tension with such a short level arm.

Steve

 

[91TSiChick]

Ok, I got the tensioner pulley on and the auto tensioner. My old one was blown bad. I was able to push it in with no straight by hand.

Now I put the belt back on with a few reference marks I made but wanted to get 2nd opinions here before trying to button it up.

The tensioner pulley however has not been tightened up yet.

Here are the pics of the alignment marks after putting the belt on:

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Also since I do not have the threaded rod and the battery tie down is no longer there can I just pull the pin and adjust the tension through the tensioner pulley? I know I have seen steve say a few things of that sort.

Thanks!

 

[steve]

Can I just pull the pin and adjust the tension through the tensioner pulley? I know I have seen steve say a few things of that sort.

Do not pull the pin until your sure it's right.

How do you know? Well if it's perfect you will be able to move the pin in the auto tensioner around freely after it's been turned over six times and you have waited 15 mins.

Once you pull the pin if it's not right you will have to try and compress the pin my the force you put on the tensioner pulley or remove the auto tensioner and compress is slowly in a vice to reinstall the pin.

So. About what you have right now.
There is no tension on the belt so we can't see if there is too much slack between the cams and the oil pump.
Did you check the phasing of the oil pump?
because of parallax, it's hard to say if you cam marks are lined up right. They need to be even with the bottom of the rocker cover where it meets the head. From your first picture it looks like the marks are below the mating surface of the head/rocker cover and than would make the exhaust cam a tooth advanced and the intake a tooth retarded.

What year car is this? I assume from your user name a 91 but it looks weird with the backing plate under the balance shaft sprocket rather then between it and the crank sprocket.

Steve

 

[91TSiChick]

Ok so how do I get tension on the tensioner without pulling the pin? Just apply pressure to the tensioner pully itself?

The oil pump phasing I am unsure of but I did overlook the balance shaft check.

I will double check my cam marks for the alignment and make sure.

Yeah the car is a 91 TSi.

Thanks!

 

[VanIsleDSM]

your cams might be fine once the belt it tight.. but yeah it is hard to tell.. I'd be weary of all that oil in there.. you don't want that on your belt..

There are 2 method to phasing the oil pump.. you can pull the bolt on the back of the block and put a screwdriver in.. which is what I did.. because that also holds the shaft still for undoing/tightening the bolt for the pully.. or you can hold the timing mark at the top and let go.. if it falls left (can't remember here but someone will) then I think it's wrong.. and if it falls to the right.. I think it's correct.. but vfaq has all that info.. you need to look through it more carefully.

And what steve is saying about the pin.. is to set your tension with the pully by torquing on it (I did it with my fingers just fine) and tighten it down.. now if you get it right the pin will be loose in the hole.. now if it's loose rotate it 6 times, leave it for 15min and check it.. if it's still loose in it's hole you've done it right.. pull the pin and you're good to go.. if it's not loose reset the pully until it is.

You have to get the pre-tension of the belt correct with the pully before you let loose the auto tensioner.

 

[steve]

Ok so how do I get tension on the tensioner without pulling the pin? Just apply pressure to the tensioner pully itself?

Yes, that exactly what you do by rotating it around the bolt and you use enough force that it pushes the tensioner pin down in the auto tensioner a bit so that retaining pin isn't holding anything in place so it's loose.

The oil pump phasing I am unsure of but I did overlook the balance shaft check.

I will double check my cam marks for the alignment and make sure.

Yeah the car is a 91 TSi.

Thanks!

Yes, the phasing is where you check the lower balance shaft becasue the oil pump marks can line up two different ways. With the lower balance shaft in phase or out of phase. It sounds confusing but it takes two turns of the oil pump to make the balance shaft turn one turn.

Are you sure you put the backing place back were it was originally.

 

[91TSiChick]

Oh ok, I check the phasing and my screwdriver goes in further than 60mm so I assume thats fine from the vfaqs since it says "at least" 60mm.

So tighten on the pulley first to get the tension set then do the turns and sit and once correct pull the pin.

As for the backing plate everything you see in the pics is just how I got it except for the new pulley and tensioner. Other than those that is how it was.

Like I said, the old tensioner pulley has the 2 holes facing down so thats why I asked if they should face up. Honestly not sure how that plays a roll in all this but want to do it right.

The cam gears look to be lined up where they should but hard to see since I can not get a straight look at it due to the fender . Here is another pic

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I appreciate all the help guys.

 

[steve]

That picture looks much better, you can see that is dead on in that one.

The backing plate isn't right for a 91 six bolt and the tensioner pulley would have it's holes rotated above the bolt.
We'll need more input for others to be 100% sure this is or isn't a problem.

 

[91TSiChick]

Great!

So now to get the pulley tension set and get this done.

Thanks!

 

[steve]

for the first gens you want to rotate the holes on the pulley clockwise till they are parrellel with your water pump an that should put tension on the belt. then pull pin in auto tensioner and wait 15-20min for auto tensioner to decompress

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